5th Gear problems

Will do.

DirtySouthJacket gave me his fifth gear puller when he sold his car.

I have not inspected it, but think it is a standard puller with the jaws ground down.

If you have your case apart you might consider this as well: fifth gear improved oiling

DanG144 said:

DirtySouthJacket gave me his fifth gear puller when he sold his car.

I have not inspected it, but think it is a standard puller with the jaws ground down.

If you have your case apart you might consider this as well: fifth gear improved oiling

Click to expand...

I plan to weld the gear to the shaft with the trans in the car. The old gear came right off, so I'm thinking the new gear will go on somewhat easily. I am going to use the red Locktite along with this method. I've considered trying to drill through the two surfaces and install dowel pins instead but I need to see how that would go. I don't think this is a good option but I may give it a try. While I'm in there I might try the mod for better oiling too.

I've been contacted over the years by a few members that have had similar repairs and made the red loctite repair. Good luck to those fixing their cars on the cheap.

Also, that link on the oiling problem was a great link! I will put it on the first page.

Terry, did you ever try welding yours?

To those that have used the red loctite method, how long have the repairs lasted.


PS - Dan, yes it was just the cheap HF gear puller with the jaws ground down. It weakens them pretty well and I broke one set that might still be in the box before I figured out just the right amount to shave off to sneak it behind the gear. Using the pullers for any other tasks will probably result in them breaking unfortunately.

Joining the loctite club

I'm not sure of the general opinion on necromancy around here, but I figured this thread has 5 years of relevant data so why start a new thread?

That out of the way, my car is a mostly stock 2006 Jetta TDI with 210K miles (aftermarket camshaft and clutch). I was heading home on the freeway earlier this week in cruise control at 75mph when all of a sudden my engine over-revved and dropped out of cruise. I figured it had popped out of gear somehow so I messed with the stick a bit, put it back into 5th and hit the gas, only to see the RPMs fly up in a fit of impotence along with a ghastly noise coming from the engine that I hadn't noticed the first time. Great. I pulled off the freeway and found this thread which sounds pretty damn close to the symptoms I'm seeing, and figure it probably won't do too much more damage to drive the 60ish miles home in 4th.

So I opened up the transmission the next day and sure enough...the shaft is stripped to hell. Everything seemed to be exactly as described in this thread, similar measurements on the remaining splines, etc. I went ahead got a new .658 gearset (I might as well while I'm changing it out and everything), I have some loctite 271 on the way, all seems to be going about as well as one can expect a stripped gear to go. Then I test fit the new gear today. That's when I started wondering if this whole loctite thing is gonna work out for me. There's at least a mm or so of radial play, and I can wiggle the gear up and down/side to side on the shaft and see visible movement. Here's a video just so we're on the same page here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEddGpzIEoM

Is it even worth it to give the loctite a try with that amount of play? If not, I'd be more than willing to give rebuilding the transmission a go, but I have no idea where to even find a new output shaft or how much they go for. I'm kind of afraid to ask given what these damn gears cost...

I would look for another tranny personally.
I hate driving a vehicle that you can't trust.

You will wreck that gear if you install it on that shaft , even with loctite.

That gear is taller and will encounter more torque loading than the previous gear, loctite is not enough to compensate for the spline wear.

I would find another good used transmission, tear it down and replace the output shift or continue to drive in 4th...

Windex said:

You will wreck that gear if you install it on that shaft , even with loctite.

That gear is taller and will encounter more torque loading than the previous gear, loctite is not enough to compensate for the spline wear.

I would find another good used transmission, tear it down and replace the output shift or continue to drive in 4th...

Click to expand...

If I'm not mistaken doesn't the smaller gear in the .658 set equate to *lower* torque loading on the output shaft? It's spinning the output faster, with less force, right? Or is there something else I'm not considering here?

Either way, your point is still valid and it's exactly what I was afraid of: my output shaft is too far gone. Turns out the shaft I need is an 0A4311205E or 02J311205N, which both run about $350 everywhere I can find them. So, rather than go through the pain of tearing all the gears off my shaft and putting them on a new one, I took your advice and found a cracked GQQ and I'll just yank the output shaft outta that and drop it in mine. Replacing the bearings should be...fun?

Rezer said:

If I'm not mistaken doesn't the smaller gear in the .658 set equate to *lower* torque loading on the output shaft? It's spinning the output faster, with less force, right? Or is there something else I'm not considering here?

Either way, your point is still valid and it's exactly what I was afraid of: my output shaft is too far gone. Turns out the shaft I need is an 0A4311205E or 02J311205N, which both run about $350 everywhere I can find them. So, rather than go through the pain of tearing all the gears off my shaft and putting them on a new one, I took your advice and found a cracked GQQ and I'll just yank the output shaft outta that and drop it in mine. Replacing the bearings should be...fun?

Click to expand...

If the Output shaft gear is larger, then yes, torque will be reduced. I tought you went with taller gears.

Either way, the O/P shaft is fubar.

As for replacing the shaft, not all that hard, as long as you have access to a hydraulic press, and have preferably had an FWD transmission or two apart before. Lots of guides out there on how to disassemble/reassemble.

The OP found the locktite worked for short term only, right?
I think you are headed in the right direction.

Though I usually impose on a friend to work on transmissions for me. I developed a strong aversion to opening one, after I tried my first one when I was 14 years old. Ever tried to find a gazillion small needle bearings on a dirt floor farm shop?

Sorry I'm late to the party.

The Red Loctite is in my mind is pretty bulletproof. I sold the car with 55,000 miles on the repair and not a hint of an issue. The next owner kept the car in Asheville going up and down hills all the time as a real estate agent without any issues for over a year before selling the car. (unfortunately I have never found out how many miles in that year.)

I also had stripped my shaft twice and the new gear wobbled on the shaft. I did have a slight vibration at certain highway speeds because the new gear was not concentric to the shaft.

Rezer, can you take a measurement of how much runout the new gear has? I contemplated placing stainless steel wire around the remaining splines to recenter the gear on the shaft better, but ended up not doing that. It was fine. If yours is worse, you could try using small gage stainless wire, 3 to 4 cut to length should be all that is necessary. I would dry fit everything, then use the Red Loctite.

This type of repair isn't for everyone. At the time I didn't make a terrible large amount of money, I had just bought a house and replacing the tranny was out of the question. I also drove 35k a year back then and couldn't afford to keep my car off the road. It was either drive in 4th gear forever, or try the loctite.

Has anyone ever noticed their big 5th gear really loose? Could that be the reason my car is popping out of 5th?
The small gear is not loose and the selector gear looks ok. I'm thinking the bearings are worn and/or the gear itself.
It would be nice to know what the ID of the gear is supposed to be and the dia. of the needle bearings if anyone knows.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=464199

Just a tad more info

Has anyone used the 660 Loctite with success on a spun shaft?

Yes I did. No you should not. See my first post.

It lasted around 23k miles for me, however when it failed, it wore the shaft even more to the point that I had a concentricity problem with the new gear. If I had used red from the start, I wouldn't of had to fix it twice, get another gear and the first time there was still enough engagement with the new gear and old shaft that the gear still went on with little slop. again when it failed after the green.

Just use the red loctite. There is no benefit to trying another type. You can still disassemble the gear later by heating the loctite.

dirtysouthjacket said:

Yes I did. No you should not. See my first post.

It lasted around 23k miles for me, however when it failed, it wore the shaft even more to the point that I had a concentricity problem with the new gear. If I had used red from the start, I wouldn't of had to fix it twice, get another gear and the first time there was still enough engagement with the new gear and old shaft that the gear still went on with little slop. again when it failed after the green.

Just use the red loctite. There is no benefit to trying another type. You can still disassemble the gear later by heating the loctite.

Click to expand...

The 660 is made for splines and gears. It is also made to fill small area. Did you try this one at all?

Yes, I did try the 660. It only lasted around 23,000 miles. Here is my summary of repairs from the first page. When I redid the repair with red loctite, it lasted over 55,000 before I sold the car. Assuming the car has not been totalled, I would expect the 5th gear is still doing fine.

The problem is that 660 is made for fitting and holding bearings and splines together during assembly. NOT for making up for missing major material areas on large torque bearing surfaces. If you use 660, it will eventually fail, and you will have to buy another gear.

If you use Red Loctite, you don't need to buy anything more than the loctite and transmission fluid to make the repair. This is assuming the shaft wore and your Gear is still in relatively good shape (this is how mine was the first time it failed). But regardless, it failing twice will definitely ruin your original gear. Gears are very expensive now for the TDIs unfortunately.


Here is my summary from the first post on the first page.
1.Bought the car with 125,000 miles
2. Original small 5th gear spun on the shaft at 147k miles.
3. Replaced it with a second stock 5th gear and Green Loctite (660) at 149k.
4. Second small 5th gear spun on the shaft at 172k.
5. Replaced with a third .658 5th gear at 189k with Red Loctite. Did not use 5th gear for first 10k miles due to minor vibration while accelerating. Small 5th gear is probably not concentric with output shaft of transmission due to excessive wear on the shaft teeth due to two failures. (Sleeve for 4th gear bearing is also slightly worn on thrust surface. 5th gear faces are misaligned by 1/16" because of this.) But I got over my fears and started using it regularly.
6. Began using .658 5th gear at 199k.
7. Currently at 230k and counting on .658 gear with Red Loctite. Total of 41k miles on current repair.
8. Sold the car in 2012 with around 245k miles to get a 2012 Jetta TDI (Sometimes I wish I had 2004 still, usually when I have to make a car payment.) SO A TOTAL OF 55k+ MILES ON THE RED LOCTITE REPAIR UNDER MY OWNERSHIP. More than likely still going strong!

Do you all this the permatex red gel would work the same as the red loctite 271?

I can't speak to other brands, I only know that the Loctite Red worked very well in my application.

You didn't list a part number, but make sure it is the high strength threadlocker if you are unwilling or can't get Loctite. Don't try to use the Silicone Gasket Maker by mistake.

Bumping this thread as it has some useful info, and I have same problem. Small gear wiggles on shaft when I took bolt out. I think I will have it welded for now or just drive it in 4th and see what my mpg's drop to...

I wouldn't weld it - it's high carbon steel and it will crack, likely before you put the cover back on. And if you successfully pre-heat it and the shaft, weld it and then slow cool them, you'll have lost the hardness and they'll wear away quickly under the torque loads.

If you're going to drive in 4th anyway, just take the small gear off, or do what dirtysouthjacket did. I can't think of any benefit to welding the two together.

tdidieselbobny said:

Bumping this thread as it has some useful info, and I have same problem. Small gear wiggles on shaft when I took bolt out. I think I will have it welded for now or just drive it in 4th and see what my mpg's drop to...

Click to expand...

you won't lose too much in terms of mpgs. maybe 1-2 but you will miss that 5th gear on the highway. i drove mine for about a year when i lost my 5th and putting in the 6 speed.

if not worried, remove the small gear and just drive it with four gears

I used Green Loctite 660 with SF7649 Primer to repair my 5th gear. It worked great. I highly recommend it. I also upgraded to a .707 taller gear set purchased from darkside developmens, and purchased the Kukko Gear Puller, I used an electric heat gun with a non contact thermometer to Meade 200 degrees F.