Starter Motor?

h.ubk

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Location
Idaho
TDI
1997 Jetta TDI with 1Z Engine
I wanted to see if I could get some advice on my Tdi starting. This is for a 1997 Jetta Tdi if it matters. Since I bought the car (~15K miles ago), it grinds from time to time when I start it. My original thought was this was a problem with the ring gear and since I am planning to pull the engine out at some point, I would just wait to deal with it. It has been annoying at times, but will always turn over just fine after a few tries. The PO had another starter motor he pulled from a junk yard and I tried putting it in, but it wouldn't disengage and had the same problem.

I had the same issue on a Mercedes diesel several years ago. The mechanic said it was an issue with the ring gear, so he pulled it out and replaced it. The ring gear he pulled out looked to have no damage.

On an unrelated issue, I had been experiencing some starting problems on my 1986 F250 diesel V8. I had to glow the plugs longer than usual, and the thing would still have a hard time starting. I just figured it is an old truck, but eventually it just stopped starting. I put a rebuilt starter motor on it and it just jumps on from a cold start, now faster than my other diesel vehicles.

My original thinking was that if the starter motor was cranking the engine, it was fine. But, considering all of these starter motors are getting pretty old, what if there are differences in the quality of them as in the amount of torque + RPM they are producing? On some internet research, I did find some links that starter motor torque was a bigger issue for high compression engines as they produce more resistance.

I am wondering if anyone has looked into this. I wonder now if my starter may just be getting a little weak and is sometimes producing more power than other times. Is there any way to test this anywhere? I don't want to pull it and take it to an auto parts store and have them say it cranks so it is good. I also don't feel like spending the money to buy a "rebuilt" unit that is no better than what I already have.

h.ubk
 
Last edited:

Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
2004 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2012 Audi Q7 V6 TDI, 1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI, 2005 VW Passat wagon TDI X3, 2001 VW golf TDI, 1980 VW rabbit pickup,
I wanted to see if I could get some advice on my Tdi starting. This is for a 1997 Jetta Tdi if it matters. Since I bought the car (~15K miles ago), it grinds from time to time when I start it. My original thought was this was a problem with the ring gear and since I am planning to pull the engine out at some point, I would just wait to deal with it. It has been annoying at times, but will always turn over just fine after a few tries. The PO had another starter motor he pulled from a junk yard and I tried putting it in, but it wouldn't disengage and had the same problem.

I had the same issue on a Mercedes diesel several years ago. The mechanic said it was an issue with the ring gear, so he pulled it out and replaced it. The ring gear he pulled out looked to have no damage.

On an unrelated issue, I had been experiencing some starting problems on my 1986 F250 diesel V8. I had to glow the plugs longer than usual, and the thing would still have a hard time starting. I just figured it is an old truck, but eventually it just stopped starting. I put a rebuilt starter motor on it and it just jumps on from a cold start, now faster than my other diesel vehicles.

My original thinking was that if the starter motor was cranking the engine, it was fine. But, considering all of these starter motors are getting pretty old, what if there are differences in the quality of them as in the amount of torque + RPM they are producing? On some internet research, I did find some links that starter motor torque was a bigger issue for high compression engines as they produce more resistance.

I am wondering if anyone has looked into this. I wonder now if my starter may just be getting a little weak and is sometimes producing more power than other times. Is there any way to test this anywhere? I don't want to pull it and take it to an auto parts store and have them say it cranks so it is good. I also don't feel like spending the money to buy a "rebuilt" unit that is no better than what I already have.

h.ubk
Right up my alley. I rebuild starters and alternators, And have seen some of those things. With your Jetta one, there's a few things to check. There is the starter pinion gear, that's the gear that comes out from the starter to engage the ring gear. It should have no burrs and the teeth should have an angle cut back on the ends of the teeth (see attached photo) the other things to check, when you grab the starter drive gear, it should turn one way, then the other direction shouldn't turn (or it should be really hard to turn) it should kinda ratchet. If it's loose feeling, then the problem probably lies with the drive. It also should not have up and down play.
There's also a planetary gear drive inside the starter, which can sometimes wear out, but it would probably grind more than just once in a while if that was the issue.

With your Ford, I had one just the same as that last week, it was a Ford Powerstroke and it was hard to start for a while, and eventually got to where it wouldn't start. What happened is that the brushes wore out and were arcing, which has less power, I ended up having to replace the armature on it as well, because it had arced so much. I'll attach a photo of the inside of that starter.

The best way I have found to test them is with an oscilloscope, but not everyone has one of those. You can also pull the back cap off and look at the brushes and see how long they are. As you can see, the third photo is the brushes on that Powerstroke starter, they are worn down and weren't getting good contact. And it ruined the armature.


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Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Mozambiquer, I have rebuilt a couple of my own starters and alternators. Since you do this on a regular basis what do you think of the parts available at this company?


https://www.aspwholesale.com/


I have used them several times and they appear to have decent quality parts.
 

Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
2004 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2012 Audi Q7 V6 TDI, 1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI, 2005 VW Passat wagon TDI X3, 2001 VW golf TDI, 1980 VW rabbit pickup,
Mozambiquer, I have rebuilt a couple of my own starters and alternators. Since you do this on a regular basis what do you think of the parts available at this company?


https://www.aspwholesale.com/


I have used them several times and they appear to have decent quality parts.
Hmm, I've never dealt with them, the prices seem pretty reasonable. They don't say what parts they use, for the price I'd guess they're on the cheaper end of the spectrum quality wise, maybe I'll have to order something from them and give a report. I get most of my parts from J&N electric out of Ohio, and direct from Delco Remy for Delco products. I try to use only premium or OEM parts myself, since I've seen the Chinese garbage fail prematurely a lot of times. My goal is to get direct from manufacturer, eg: Bosch, Denso, Valeo, Delco... Etc, that way I can skip the middle man.

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casey_tdi97

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2003
Location
Toronto,ON. CDN
TDI
Jetta,97,red
Had a similar issue with my 97 TDI and it was the ignition switch remaining in start instead of run after starting. Was fine when I took off in 1st but every time I pushed the clutch this wailing grinding came from the engine and I did not know at first. Figured it out and the switch would not spring back to run after starting. I just simply nudged the key barrel back slightly and it never did it again. VW then recalled many MKIII Jetta's for this reason I believe but I was over on mileage. Still have the same car today with the original ignition switch and always nudge it back to this day.
 
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