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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)

Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) The place of handling, lighting and other upgrades that do not relate to the performance or economy of the TDI engine. In other words upgrades to your TDI that don't fit into TDI Fuel Economy & TDI Engine Enhancements.Please note the Performance Disclaimer

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Old May 10th, 2017, 02:55   #16
xjay1337
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I know you can fit the TTRS caliper to the Mk5, 6 and 7 platform. These are also same as Aston Martin DB9 caliper.
You can use Audi TTS 340mm discs as the 370mm TTRS Discs are poor.

UK supplier AKS Tuning sells an adaptor kit to fit these discs to the TTRS Caliper



You have an excellent pad choice, ranging from cheap OEM type pads for around 40/$70 to race spec pads for 400 or so.
I use Project Mu H16 which are around 380.

The pedal travel is excellent, and well matched, and discs are cheap. The 17zs are crap. 18z is OK but in my opinion as an all around option the TTRS are better, the next step up would be 8 piston from Lamborghini and master cylinder upgrade
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Old May 10th, 2017, 04:50   #17
adjat84th
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Thanks for all the feedback!
I'm not trying to break the bank with the upgrade, which is why I started looking at the GTI/R brakes. I am only interested in a few events per year while still being civil enough to be daily driven. I have a shopping list of all required parts to upgrade to the GTI/R brakes and it's right at $1200 for everything front and rear. That's rotors, caliper carriers, pads, dust shields, bolts/hardware. That's retaining the stock calipers though.

The 18Z and 17Z looks so similar it's hard to believe there's that big of a difference. But, the price of those kits is far more affordable than most other BBKs, which is a big factor for me. Can't seem to locate any TTRS calipers to compare??
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Old May 10th, 2017, 05:08   #18
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Plenty of calipers available in the UK if you are prepared to find someone to ship.

I wouldn't really call the GTI brakes an upgrade personally. I found stock 312mm setup on my car was poor even for standard power.

In the UK used TTRS setup goes for around 500 with 370mm discs which are not ideal but will get you buy until you change the carriers for the 340mm discs.

If not then I'd go with the 18z. The difference is in the piston sizes. 17z are poo.
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Old May 11th, 2017, 06:42   #19
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got a few sets of rs3 calipers some with perfect pads
340mm carriers to be ready soon
z18 is a cheaper option maybe, mine are tweaked to go on 340mm discs, pedal travel is longer, trust me

good pads for z18 from 150$
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Old July 2nd, 2018, 02:47   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xjay1337 View Post
If not then I'd go with the 18z. The difference is in the piston sizes. 17z are poo.
I have the Rotorlabs 17z kit on order right now. Has to fit under my Neuspeed RSE05s. But for the record, the 17z has more piston area than the 18z.

17z: 34/36/38
18z: 30/34/38

The 18z does allow slightly larger rotors which likely makes up for the smaller piston area... assuming similar pad area. FWIW, both were are speced to stop the same size vehicle.

Don't know if adjat84th (or anyone else) is still considering brake upgrades but the Rotorlab kits will bolt right up if you have steel steering knuckles. My NAR Golf does, but can't speak for ROW vehicles or any GSWs. Choice of 17z/18z should be dictated by the wheels you're running.

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Old July 3rd, 2018, 03:33   #21
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And the larger piston area is why the pedal is awful!
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Old July 3rd, 2018, 06:36   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xjay1337 View Post
And the larger piston area is why the pedal is awful!
It's mismatched with the stock master cylinder. It's so undersized for those brakes it takes a lot more pedal travel to move to appropriate brake fluid to push the pistons.
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Old July 3rd, 2018, 08:11   #23
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I appreciate the relationship between master cylinder and piston size. None of the research that myself or a member on a different forum has done suggests that the master cylinder is different between any of the NAR Golfs 1.8T/TDI/GTI/R. Without reposting too much of what has been found the part number for the R/GTI with PP ends in "B" and the manufacturer specs it at .01mm bigger than the non "B" part number.

Let's assume that research is wrong though, and master cylinder is different like it was between MK6 GTIs and Rs. The MK7 TDI still has the small master cylinder. If you are upgrading to the 18z or 17z you're just choosing between how awful your pedal will feel until you upgrade the master cylinder.

I don't suspect the pedal feel is going to be significantly different between the two brakes in our application. Which is why I said choose either of these based on the wheels are going to run because you need an upgraded master cylinder anyway.

And if the research is right I'll have a few more dollars in my pocket when my 17z kit gets installed. FWIW I ordered that kit and immediately looked to source the upgraded master cylinder, but then when I found the manufacturer (TRW) specs they weren't different so I held off.

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Old July 3rd, 2018, 13:37   #24
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the Golf Bore size is 23mm with a pushrod length of 1.64", front caliper piston is 54mm

The GTI Bore size is 25mm with a pushrod length of 2.05" (both 312mm and 340mm brakes), front caliper piston is 57mm (312mm) and 60mm (340mm)

For reference, a TT-RS is 25.4mm with pushrod length of 1.75" (that's with the Brembo 4-piston calipers with 57mm pistons x4)
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Old July 3rd, 2018, 15:33   #25
Cuzoe
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Would you happen to have a source that states the difference in size and push rod length? I'm asking because I'd like to share it in some other threads where myself and another member were discussing it. I will credit you for the find.

This is what we found

Golf Master Cylinder:
VW pn 8V1611021A
Vendor (TRW) pn PMK685
23.8mm piston (no push rod length info)

GTI/R Master Cylinder:
VW on 8V1611021B
Vendor (TRW) on PML480
23.81mm piston (no push rod length info)

In the discussion over there we considered that the pushrod might be a different lengths because that could make up for having similar piston sizes. Are the pedal assemblies (or brake pedal linkages) also different to accommodate this? We suspected this was not likely but stranger things are true.

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Old July 5th, 2018, 21:25   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuzoe View Post
I have the Rotorlabs 17z kit on order right now. Has to fit under my Neuspeed RSE05s. But for the record, the 17z has more piston area than the 18z.

17z: 34/36/38
18z: 30/34/38

The 18z does allow slightly larger rotors which likely makes up for the smaller piston area... assuming similar pad area. FWIW, both were are speced to stop the same size vehicle.

Don't know if adjat84th (or anyone else) is still considering brake upgrades but the Rotorlab kits will bolt right up if you have steel steering knuckles. My NAR Golf does, but can't speak for ROW vehicles or any GSWs. Choice of 17z/18z should be dictated by the wheels you're running.

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I just got off the phone with Rotorlab and he mentioned the steel knuckles being the only known MK7 knuckle to have these kits bolt on. The GTI/R use aluminum knuckles with offset mounting ears that have to be ground down to work...not ideal but doable. So, guess I'm glad the TDI has cheaper knuckles!

Would love to hear more regarding the master cylinder difference in pushrod length, at this point I'm thinking that can be swapped out afterwards if pedal feel is terrible. The MC is only $155 at my dealer, so not a big hit to the wallet.

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Old July 6th, 2018, 15:58   #27
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Cuzoe, did you measure the offset from the mounting tab to hub face to be sure of fitment?? If so, what did you measure?

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Old July 6th, 2018, 18:00   #28
Cuzoe
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This will be a short response for now, I'll edit it add more when I get off my phone and onto a computer. I have not measured my Knuckles but there is member with a Golf R on the golfmk7 forums that bought steel knuckles to replace the aluminum ones that came on his car in order to run the kit from rotorlabs.

I'm not opposed to switching out the master cylinder, especially considering that I will have to bleed the brakes anyway. But I'm hoping 20IndigoBlue02 will give us some more info. I don't know what a different pushrod length means for the pedal assembly. In my mind something would have to be different.

It also makes sense that the master cylinder size and/or pushrod length should be different between all these brakes setup I just haven't been able to find that in the part breakdowns.

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Old July 8th, 2018, 09:20   #29
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Did this member on golfmk7 forums get MK7 steel knuckles? There are quite a few folks that have simply replaced MK7 knuckles with MK5/6 knuckles (cheap find) just to use these brakes. I should have time starting tomorrow to take the wheel off and check the offset to hopefully get my set started.

Curious about the pedal assembly now with potentially using the different MC.
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Old July 8th, 2018, 10:17   #30
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User MNG in the other forum did use MK6 knuckles on his MK7 R, I misread that. Was probably too excited about ordering brakes, haha. If you get a chance to check the offset that would be awesome. I suppose if I have to buy spindles I'm still under the price the StopTech ST40 kit, and well under the Brembo GT kit.

Sunday is my homework day but when I finish I plan to look deeper into the pedal assemblies. Quick check on volkswagen.7zap.com shows the same pedal bracket assembly for Golfs and Rs, along with the same pedal. Previously I found the brake booster to be the same part number as well.
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