President Trump may rescind a few EPA rules

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pkhoury

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eatpasta

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If he maintains his present course, there is no question that he will relax regulations.

Maybe I'll finally be able to put a TDI in my old Jeep. That or a nice crate V8. I'm in smog hell over here stuck with a worthless carb from the 70's

That would be f*$king awesome
 

narongc73

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If he maintains his present course, there is no question that he will relax regulations.

Maybe I'll finally be able to put a TDI in my old Jeep. That or a nice crate V8. I'm in smog hell over here stuck with a worthless carb from the 70's

That would be f*$king awesome
You can, if you move from that crappy state. :D:D
 

narongc73

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nwdiver

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Good... I don't trust air I can't see and maintaining our addiction to fools fuel provides great job security for our armed forces.
 
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UNsweet

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If he maintains his present course, there is no question that he will relax regulations.
Maybe I'll finally be able to put a TDI in my old Jeep. That or a nice crate V8. I'm in smog hell over here stuck with a worthless carb from the 70's
That would be f*$king awesome
You can, if you move from that crappy state. :D:D
I curse CARB all the time.
People look at me funny and I'm like, "I'm a CA native that left, they have been making life heck for a long time. Even now when I live in Florida they impact me I'm allowed the hate!"
I do miss tri-tip though. But not the fog, or the wind.
 

nicklockard

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Old adage is good adage: be careful what you wish for.

Having said it, I wish for


  • a homogenized, uniform world emission standard
  • 2%, uniform biodiesel standard
  • Clear, simple regulatory timelines and goals
  • technology-neutral policy (not anti-anything)
  • Elimination of 'zero' anything policies, as they are not effective in the big picture and paint us into a corner.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Old adage is good adage: be careful what you wish for.

Having said it, I wish for


  • a homogenized, uniform world emission standard
  • 2%, uniform biodiesel standard
  • Clear, simple regulatory timelines and goals
  • technology-neutral policy (not anti-anything)
  • Elimination of 'zero' anything policies, as they are not effective in the big picture and paint us into a corner.

I agree, but I very much doubt this will ever happen. When my brother was in Thailand he said it was difficult to breathe and you couldn't see down the street due to all the exhaust fumes from the hordes of small motorcycles...many of them still 2-strokes. They were still selling them brand new there, and by our standards were dirt cheap (so cheap he actually bought a slightly used one since it was cheaper than renting one for the time he was there). But to the locals, they were still quite expensive. It is all relative, but if you cannot afford some fancy modern emissions compliant in the USA regulatory laden vehicle but you still need to get from A to B, you buy what you can. They can buy cigarettes really cheap there, though. And LOTS of people smoke there.

I think the regulations we have had lately, that poo-poo and essentially ban or make them virtually unrealistic to sell modern hyper efficient diesels but gladly allow GM to sell every 15 MPG Suburban they can build seem to be in dire need of an overhaul. Clearly something is missing from that picture. Not saying diesels are the answer to everything, but they are AN answer that could be a part of the solution.
 

tikal

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I think from the profitability point of view conventional gasoline powered SUVs/pick up trucks are still 'numero uno' for all the car manufacturers.

Americans like conventional gasoline powered SUVs/pick up trucks and their fuel is relatively low cost.

Why rock the boat?
 

nicklockard

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I agree, but I very much doubt this will ever happen. When my brother was in Thailand he said it was difficult to breathe and you couldn't see down the street due to all the exhaust fumes from the hordes of small motorcycles...many of them still 2-strokes. They were still selling them brand new there, and by our standards were dirt cheap (so cheap he actually bought a slightly used one since it was cheaper than renting one for the time he was there). But to the locals, they were still quite expensive. It is all relative, but if you cannot afford some fancy modern emissions compliant in the USA regulatory laden vehicle but you still need to get from A to B, you buy what you can. They can buy cigarettes really cheap there, though. And LOTS of people smoke there.

I think the regulations we have had lately, that poo-poo and essentially ban or make them virtually unrealistic to sell modern hyper efficient diesels but gladly allow GM to sell every 15 MPG Suburban they can build seem to be in dire need of an overhaul. Clearly something is missing from that picture. Not saying diesels are the answer to everything, but they are AN answer that could be a part of the solution.
I thought it would be obvious, but I was talking about homogenized emissions standards with countries which actually have them: EU, Japan, Korea, AUS, NZ, etc. You can't homogenize standards with countries that don't have any!
 

turbovan+tdi

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Old adage is good adage: be careful what you wish for.

Having said it, I wish for


  • a homogenized, uniform world emission standard
  • 2%, uniform biodiesel standard
  • Clear, simple regulatory timelines and goals
  • technology-neutral policy (not anti-anything)
  • Elimination of 'zero' anything policies, as they are not effective in the big picture and paint us into a corner.
Agreed. The EPA got to powerful and forgot what they were about, IMHO.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I thought it would be obvious, but I was talking about homogenized emissions standards with countries which actually have them: EU, Japan, Korea, AUS, NZ, etc. You can't homogenize standards with countries that don't have any!

Hah! It wasn't obvious but after reading this post I agree it perhaps should have been. :)

But that brings another topic to the equation: countries with no regulatory burdens, be it emissions standards, safety standards, working conditions, pay scale, blah blah blah. That "not in MY back yard" mentality which can serve to simply push bad things somewhere else, and often compounds those bad things. NASA's timelapse imagery around the globe of industrial pollution would be a good indicator of such a phenomenon. We (North America) enjoy a relatively clean area for an industrialized nation, no doubt due in large part to the EPA.... but China (and much of Southeast Asia in general) easily eclipses the rest of the planet combined. And if you consider the fact that much (most?) of that is from the manufacture of products that are destined to be shipped elsewhere...much of it here...what is the net result to the environment as a whole?

Not sure what the answer to this problem is, but at least admitting it is a problem would be a good first step in finding a solution. But as individuals, we can at least do some tiny part to help. I just spent $120 at a local shop having my 31 year old Hoover upright vacuum cleaner reconditioned. It is an overbuilt machine that works fantastic still, was made in the USA, and while I could have just gone to Wal-mart and bought a brand new Chinasuck vacuum for $89.95 I instead chose what I feel is a more environmentally sound decision. And I'll bet this Hoover will still work after another 31 years and that new one would have long since died.

I'm sure my Hoover has no Energy Star rating (if there is such a thing on vacuum cleaners), and it probably had some paint process that the EPA banned back in the '80s, whatever, it still works. It won't end up in a land fill somewhere. I refuse to succumb to the disposable consumer goods methodology of living.
 
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oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Perhaps we do disagree on certain things, but we can still be civil to one another and respect each other's opinions, which is more than I can say for a lot of the current populace, sadly. :(

But Jason, you and I probably agree on a lot more than you realize. All too often people assume that someone's political position MUST be left OR right, and once that designation has been made, that individual's entire thought process must be aligned to that label. And I am in my personal life far away from one or the other extremes, and most certainly do not follow lock step with either, and could certainly be at odds with either side on any number of topics.
 
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nicklockard

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Hah! It wasn't obvious but after reading this post I agree it perhaps should have been. :)

But that brings another topic to the equation: countries with no regulatory burdens, be it emissions standards, safety standards, working conditions, pay scale, blah blah blah. That "not in MY back yard" mentality which can serve to simply push bad things somewhere else, and often compounds those bad things. NASA's timelapse imagery around the globe of industrial pollution would be a good indicator of such a phenomenon. We (North America) enjoy a relatively clean area for an industrialized nation, no doubt due in large part to the EPA.... but China (and much of Southeast Asia in general) easily eclipses the rest of the planet combined. And if you consider the fact that much (most?) of that is from the manufacture of products that are destined to be shipped elsewhere...much of it here...what is the net result to the environment as a whole?

Not sure what the answer to this problem is, but at least admitting it is a problem would be a good first step in finding a solution. But as individuals, we can at least do some tiny part to help. I just spent $120 at a local shop having my 31 year old Hoover upright vacuum cleaner reconditioned. It is an overbuilt machine that works fantastic still, was made in the USA, and while I could have just gone to Wal-mart and bought a brand new Chinasuck vacuum for $89.95 I instead chose what I feel is a more environmentally sound decision. And I'll bet this Hoover will still work after another 31 years and that new one would have long since died.

I'm sure my Hoover has no Energy Star rating (if there is such a thing on vacuum cleaners), and it probably had some paint process that the EPA banned back in the '80s, whatever, it still works. It won't end up in a land fill somewhere. I refuse to succumb to the disposable consumer goods methodology of living.
Yep, I don't know what the paradox is called, but I see it as a natural outcome as Jevon's paradox: that as societies get more sophisticated, they demand cleaner air, water, and soil. At some point, their demands for cleanliness exceed industries ability to maintain production, so the only way to "eliminate" dirty air, water, and soil is to eliminate jobs. So we've been outsourcing our jobs and the pollution that goes with them to China for 40 years, except China produces more pollution per product made than if we did it here.

We have essentially traded clean LOCAL air, water, and soil for increased world pollution. Was that a fair or smart trade? Was it worth it? Or should we have pursued REASONABLE goals for clean air, water, and soil in balance with REASONABLE restrictions on industrial jobs? i.e. where is the tradeoff? It's not easy or as simple as it sounds--it's a lot of gray area, IMO.

Maybe industrial activities should be graded on a basis of productive unit in dollar terms divided by the total GLOBAL end-to-end pollution profile it took to yield that. Or, put another way, I hope the Trump administration pursues a homogenized world standard for pollutants which is based on that.

Edit to add: and I hope that Hoover outlives us all :). Not many things are manufactured to be serviceable anymore, which is a crying shame.
 
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tikal

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Thanks for the great posts from oilhammer and nicklockard. Very refreshingly positive!

So many terms such as left, right, liberal, conservative we have invented to divide people and bring unhappiness to humanity. On the positive side I see more and more people in this forum and around me that rise above the petty stuff and the backbiting and focus on serving others with their knowledge/resources and good attitude.

Sorry my previous post in this thread could have been more positive.
 

turbovan+tdi

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I think the EPA started off right, then they went off the beaten path, started making rules that were costing business's money so what do they do, find a cheaper way-here comes China with the cheaper way and here we are today, :(
 

pkhoury

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You can, if you move from that crappy state. :D:D
I'm glad I left that crappy state. I don't know how I put up with biannual smogs and getting raped each year by the DMV for so long.
 

Doughboyea

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From a manufacturer's standpoint, I would be concerned that Trump's tennure is limited. Whatever "damage" he may inflict, drastic changes he places through his executive orders, the next president may/will reverse them. I'm not sure if manufacturers would be willing to invest in a new US-spec (deregulated) vehicle for a couple years worth of production. The profit is just not there.
 

meerschm

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there will be changes at the EPA, but these will not be wholesale decade-scale rollback of regulations.

rules which are in the final stages of approval can just not be signed (a couple toxic substance rules, some clean water rules....)

and future standards could be bent along the curve. (mpg standards for example)

And they can prioritize enforcement actions and legal defense (meaning lack of defense) that can reduce effectiveness of regulations.


It also seems likely that some form of censorship will be applied to research results.
 

turbobrick240

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Alternative facts. Welcome to the twilight zone.
 

tadawson

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there will be changes at the EPA, but these will not be wholesale decade-scale rollback of regulations.

rules which are in the final stages of approval can just not be signed (a couple toxic substance rules, some clean water rules....)

and future standards could be bent along the curve. (mpg standards for example)

And they can prioritize enforcement actions and legal defense (meaning lack of defense) that can reduce effectiveness of regulations.


It also seems likely that some form of censorship will be applied to research results.
And by 'censorship', I presume that you mean 'sanity checking', since it's common knowledge that the fruitbats have been misrepresenting things for years, and not presenting equally valid dissenting research . . .
 
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