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Old December 23rd, 2007, 09:35   #31
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The 7-speed DSG being initially released is rated only to 250 Nm of torque, which means it will for now only be mated to lower output gasoline- and TDI engines in the VW lineup. The peak torque of the 2.0 16V CR TDI that will be introduced in North America already exceeds the rated limit of this transmission.

VW will be later releasing a higher-rated DQ-500 transmission (500 Nm), and Audi is developing a version of the dual-clutch transmission for longitudinally-mounted layouts, and both of these will find their way to the higher-output engines.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 11:26   #32
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Dave, do you know anything about the 6-speed units in the Tiguan? Is the auto an Aisin?
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 12:38   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality
That's what people want, though. People still are drawn more to power than mileage. They'll even buy a higher-performance gasser that requires premium, not actually running the numbers to see what it'll cost them. And of course, buying sport-utes when they aren't really 'needed.'

Consumer demand has to drive fuel economy. I disagree with Congress' move to increase the fuel economy of cars by regulation. They just need to put more tax on fuel so that it's $5/gallon. Put the money into roads and alternative-energy research. Mabye bridges, too, so we don't have them collapsing like the one in Minneapolis.
what makes you think the feds will do anything good with the extra taxes on fuel ? government has to stop invading other countries, cut military spending and reinvest that money for alternative energy sources.
Tax the SUVs, trucks, and luxury sedans that get poor fuel economy , not punish everybody by raising the gas tax.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 13:08   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri16V
what makes you think the feds will do anything good with the extra taxes on fuel ? government has to stop invading other countries, cut military spending and reinvest that money for alternative energy sources.
Tax the SUVs, trucks, and luxury sedans that get poor fuel economy , not punish everybody by raising the gas tax.
Not that I disagree, but in the interest of not letting the subject veer into a political- and foreign policy debate, let's not tread in this direction in this thread, please.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 13:11   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPM
Dave, do you know anything about the 6-speed units in the Tiguan? Is the auto an Aisin?
6-speed DSGs so-advertised will be similar to the ones installed on the Golf R32 and Passat R36. As far as I know, the slushbox automatic is supplied by the same supplier as installed in other contemporary models.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 13:55   #36
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I still am wondering if the Feds don't have more to do with us not getting the very efficient smaller TDI's than we know. The dealer I bought my '06 DSG from tried his best to sell me a 2.5 pkg2 gasser for a VERY competive price. Said they have to sell 1 gas model in the US for every TDI they sell..If that's true ?? then it doesn't pay for them to try and bring a Polo over and sell a million of them if this rule applies. Anyone know this for sure??
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 14:05   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiscVWnut
The dealer I bought my '06 DSG from tried his best to sell me a 2.5 pkg2 gasser for a VERY competive price. Said they have to sell 1 gas model in the US for every TDI they sell..If that's true ??
I wouldn't mind if they sold me a TDI and threw in a gasser as an option

It is sort of true. The manufacturers have some caps on the emissions the entire fleet they sell are allowed to emit. For some reasons, diesels weigh heavily in this equation. As a result, under the old emissions rules there was a ratio of diesel/non-diesel cars VWoA had to maintain. Apparently, with the new diesel emissions rules, this won't be an issue in the future.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 14:59   #38
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This is exactly what I was talking about before... I agree! The 2008 estimates are far off (below) what you will get. The 2006 estimates were close but still a little conservative for the TDI's. The 2008 ratings use a new system and are far harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erdrick
I think a big key that people are forgetting is that the EPA ratings changed for 2008. They have also listed a lot of older vehicles with this new rating system. TDIs have always gotten better than EPA in most cases, under the old EPA rating system. With the new ratings, which show almost every car as getting less FE than the previous rating system, the TDIs will shine even more.

People with Priuses will feel better when they are actually able to meet their 2008 vehicle's EPA estimates, and 2008 TDI owners will be delighted to blow away their car's EPA estimates! Not that I am biased to either side, as I drive both. Well, older models anyways... Oh, and one isn't a Prius, but the Lexus 400h.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 16:07   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdisedanman
The 07 DSG model will have a 7 speed trans thus getting higher mileage. The VW site says 40 city and 50s hwy( I am not sure of the manual trans). My wifes 05 Passat with the TDI and automatic averages about 33 in combined driving. On the hwy, with 4 people, loaded with luggage and cruising speeds better than 70, I got something like 44 MPG. Her car has the 2.0 engine with less refinement than the new Jetta. I don't think you will see a fuel economy reduction at all!
I'm willing to bet that VW are using imperial gallons to quote the mileage figures. Mid-50s for the A5 Jetta is about right and the Canadian car mags have been saying "about the same mileage as the previous model but more power".
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 16:28   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMopar
.......... I honestly think the new CR engines will easily break 50 MPG highway numbers on a routine basis.
I agree.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 18:24   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10then34
It is sort of true. The manufacturers have some caps on the emissions the entire fleet they sell are allowed to emit. For some reasons, diesels weigh heavily in this equation. As a result, under the old emissions rules there was a ratio of diesel/non-diesel cars VWoA had to maintain. Apparently, with the new diesel emissions rules, this won't be an issue in the future.
If this is true that this won't be an issue with the clean diesels, why in the heck doesn't VW bring in a 3cylinder TDI getting 70+ mpg (US) and test the market? I'm still cynical enough to believe that the EPA will penalize these somehow to keep out the very high milage vehicles for tax reasons.
Look at the Smart car that is coming in soon, it only comes with the larger gas engine and is rated at 39mpg hwy! And this thing only weighs around 2000lbs...So it can't just be that the Polo etc are too small that they won't let them in.?
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Old December 24th, 2007, 00:13   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DickSilver
We live in South Africa part of the year and Kentucky the other part. In Kentucky we are saddled with an overly-thirsty 2004 Passat wagon (32 mpg long-term with Tiptronic), but in South Africa we drive a 2004 Touran 1.9 TDI 6-speed that gets 35 mpg city, 40 mpg hiway, and has more usable room and a higher, more comfortable seating position.
Like I said, there's an ad easily made. How many minivan owners would trade in their gas hogs if they were able to get a reliable high-mileage equivalent?

We had a bunch of visitors to my place of work this week from England and they told me that a TON of diesel cars are available over there from just about anyone - what I noticed was that in almost all of them they are 1.9's - does VW own all the patents and thus are collecting on all of these manufacturer's making them ? That would explain why no one is bringing them over here.
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Old December 24th, 2007, 04:56   #43
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No, the various 1.9s aren't all VWs. Infact, most manufacturers are downsizing from the older 1.9 or 2.0 designs and going to smaller (and lighter, yet with the same HP) 1.4 and 1.6l units...
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Old December 24th, 2007, 07:24   #44
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Not to sound skeptical of some peoples dreams, but anyone that thinks that a vehicle with a 5% larger displacement, and 20% higher tq and hp will get better fuel milage just because of a new technology is, well, dreaming.

Why then is the CR keeping the uber high pressures... for S&G's?.. no! they need that fine spray pattern.. That exhaust treatment.. how does that work... ya.. it injects fuel to create the temps needed to burn it off.

Truth will be in the #'s

Oh yea.. and the A5 chassis just about removes any chance of ever getting back to A4 fuel figures..
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Old December 24th, 2007, 08:27   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiscVWnut
If this is true that this won't be an issue with the clean diesels, why in the heck doesn't VW bring in a 3cylinder TDI getting 70+ mpg (US) and test the market? I'm still cynical enough to believe that the EPA will penalize these somehow to keep out the very high milage vehicles for tax reasons.
Look at the Smart car that is coming in soon, it only comes with the larger gas engine and is rated at 39mpg hwy! And this thing only weighs around 2000lbs...So it can't just be that the Polo etc are too small that they won't let them in.?
Because the vast majority of Americans would never consider such a car.

Drink some "get real" Kool-Aide for a second:

People want:
-Horsepower
-0 to 60 times in under 6 seconds
-Towering vehicles so the soccer mom's can "Feel safer" despite the increased risk of a fatal accident or roll-over which that brings
-A cheap car for less than $10,000 or even $15,000
-A vehicle that gets at most an extra 5 mpg is a BIG deal to most Americans and they would happily trade-in their current car for the next 36-48 months for one...then trade-again!

Unless you are selling 300,000 cars a year to rental car companies with low cost powertrains ($1000-V8 vs a diesels of approx VW/MB $2000-$5000) How do you expect to compete with that?

If you want a car that gets 70 MPG it can be done...without ANY problem and still meet current emissions using the newest diesel engines. However the car WILL NOT cost $15,000 due to the extensive use of aluminum, plastics, and other weight saving components that are extremely expensive to produce. Steel structures are being produced using high tensile strength steel in order to utilize thinner lower grade steel in parts of the frame that do not require the higher strength, in other words put the strength where it's needed most without needlessly increasing weight and material cost. Even then you have additional processes that now need to be integrated into production...net result an increase in production costs in order to save 100#.

Oh, did I mention the Dollar to Euro conversion? Lucky for us we have teh Puebla Mexico plant and the Huntsville, AL. Mercedes plants

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