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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVII-Mk7 Golf family including Golf Wagon (~ 2015 +)

VW MKVII-Mk7 Golf family including Golf Wagon (~ 2015 +) Discussions area for the Mk7 (2015+) Golf and Golf Wagon TDIs based on the MQB (Modularer Querbaukasten) platform.

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Old June 30th, 2016, 11:56   #226
J.R.
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Originally Posted by bballppaul View Post
I tried to see if I could find similar info, but definitely threadzilla isn't the place to go for it. I reviewed the EPA docs in alot of depth. Fixes aren't approved, but I'm very confident that the "fix" has already been created. Approval is subject to the durability testing.
If you read through the documents, it talks about GEN3 vehicles requiring an additional NOx sensor to be installed. I would infer from the documents that there is no downstream NOx sensor to measure the efficiency of the DEF-NOx reaction. DEF dosing is probably based on a value from the upstream NOx sensor (there is one before the Urea injector). But without a way to measure the NOx at the other end, and thus the NOx -> N2 conversion efficiency, the emissions system can't do a great job of controlling NOx. Since manufacturers want to reduce ammonia slip (injecting too much DEF allowing excess ammonia to be present in the exhaust), the DEF dosing strategy probably allowed high NOx emissions to occur under heavy loading, since there is no way to adjust DEF dosage based upon realtime NOx emissions. I'm sure not enough DEF was being injected into the exhaust stream.
The software reprogramming will probably change the dosing strategy and incorporate the second sensor. I believe this would be the first part of the recall. The second part of the recall would be dependent on durability testing. Generally, diesel oxidation catalysts (DOC) used in diesel vehicles with SCR play a part in converting NO to NO2, as a higher NO2:NO ratio will result in a greater NOx + NH3(ammonia) -> N2 conversion when you get to the SCR catalyst. The DPF in our vehicles is coated with an SCR catalyst. Don't want to get into the reactions, but the point is that the DOC and/or SCR catalyst will likely undergo more stress with the new DEF dosing strategy than it was originally designed for. After the results of the durability testing, they will know how many miles the catalytic converter is good for. If it doesn't hit 150,000 miles, the EPA will require VW to replace the combined DOC/DPF/SCR unit at a specified interval. That will be the second part of the recall, because it will be required to keep the vehicles emissions compliant for the full useful life of the vehicle, which is specified as 150,000 miles for the emissions bin that the vehicles were certified to.
Granted, this is speculation, but it is based on sound science and the EPA's consent decree document. I couldn't help but dive into all this since my background is in Chemical Engineering.
Good info, thanks.


Can't wait to hear full details on the 'fix', how it affects performance/mileage/reliability (largely of the emissions system/CAT) /DEF dosing etc.

And perhaps most interesting, how tuners will work around it to un-fix the 'fix'
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Old July 1st, 2016, 09:31   #227
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Hi All;
Does anyone have any idea of who owns the current 2016 TDIs that have been stuck in port: the dealerships who ordered them , or VW of A?
My guess would be to say most likely the dealerships.
And another guess: these cars will only get released to the dealerships once a fix for them has been approved by the EPA?
May be interested in buying one of these 2016 models, and trying to figure out how to best go about it. All tips very welcome!
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Old July 1st, 2016, 10:23   #228
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What I've heard from several sources is that the '16s are gone: they've been shipped out of the country.
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Old July 1st, 2016, 14:09   #229
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What I've heard from several sources is that the '16s are gone: they've been shipped out of the country.
Wow, bummer if true!
I'm starting to contact some dealerships for info on this and have not gotten anything definite from any of them yet.
When/if () I do, will post on this thread in case anyone else may be interested.
My assumption was that the 2016 TDI models would be released to dealerships once VWofA had come to an agreement with the FTC/EPA, and it seems they have now submitted their plans (6/28) and waiting for approval (7/28 ?).
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Old July 1st, 2016, 14:23   #230
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the 2016 MY is over. I think VW decided it didn't make sense to go to the effort to modify and certify vehicles that are already considered one model year old. Let's hope they simply skip to the '17s and bring them in.

In the meantime, there are some '15s left around.
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Old July 18th, 2016, 05:17   #231
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Has anyone seen any indication that VW will sell TDI's in the 2017 lineup? This may provide some indication of their long term diesel plans.
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Old July 18th, 2016, 10:32   #232
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I think what happens in 2017 would be more of an indicator of short term plans. Right now dealer order sheets days diesels are "TBD" which is not surprising as VW may still be negotiating for EPA compliance. However, other rumors I hear are that VW may skip 2017 and bring diesels back in 2018, if for no other than marketing reasons.
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Old July 19th, 2016, 04:02   #233
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I think what happens in 2017 would be more of an indicator of short term plans. Right now dealer order sheets days diesels are "TBD" which is not surprising as VW may still be negotiating for EPA compliance. However, other rumors I hear are that VW may skip 2017 and bring diesels back in 2018, if for no other than marketing reasons.
Yeah, This is what I was afraid of. Those of us with 2015's and EA288's would have very little public knowledge base to draw on. It's bye bye for me, it's been a great ride.
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Old July 19th, 2016, 04:39   #234
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Turning my 2015 in as soon as I can. Love the diesel but if they couldn't get it right the first time, under the gun they will rush on the fixes, probably won't stand behind them long term and who knows what issues will happen 6.12,24 or 36 months down the road after a potential fix.

Bye bye VW
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Old July 19th, 2016, 05:36   #235
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Funny, my view is different. If they release the remaining '15s that are at dealers for sale and discount them, I'm buying one, probably either a manual transmission Passat or Jetta Sedan to replace my B4. I've driven a bunch of EA288 TDIs and think it's a great drivetrain.
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Old July 19th, 2016, 06:00   #236
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Turning my 2015 in as soon as I can. Love the diesel but if they couldn't get it right the first time, under the gun they will rush on the fixes, probably won't stand behind them long term and who knows what issues will happen 6.12,24 or 36 months down the road after a potential fix.

Bye bye VW
Any idea when a 2015 buyback could happen? I thought the final figures for the 2015's haven't been decided yet. I will buy another GSW if I can get a reasonable deal. I've got more than enough diesels in my yard and barn.
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Old July 19th, 2016, 07:40   #237
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Originally Posted by Cincy_TDI View Post
Turning my 2015 in as soon as I can. Love the diesel but if they couldn't get it right the first time, under the gun they will rush on the fixes, probably won't stand behind them long term and who knows what issues will happen 6.12,24 or 36 months down the road after a potential fix.
Part of the proposed settlement includes warranty extensions on current vehicles, so VW must "stand behind" them. How long those will last depends on how much you drive the car, of course, but I expect they'd last at least a year or two even for heavy drivers. (That said, I don't recall the precise mileage details.) In the longer term, your concerns may be justified.

Of course, even if you've got a warranty, reliability problems can be a hassle -- or worse. I'd hate to be stranded on the side of the road in an ice storm or in Death Valley because my car's emissions system failed at that point. Repeated failures could also be a major headache, even if they don't cost me a cent. I was a bit wary of a newly-redesigned VW when I bought my 2015 Golf, and the emissions fix is unlikely to improve reliability, so even with an extension to the warranty, I'm leaning toward turning mine in.

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Originally Posted by panda
Any idea when a 2015 buyback could happen? I thought the final figures for the 2015's haven't been decided yet.
Nothing's been approved; however, there are PDFs on the FTC site that enable you to compute the exact value you'll get for your car, assuming you know the turn-in date and mileage at that time.

As to when it will happen, nothing will be 100% finalized until early October -- and that assumes no further delays (say, if the judge rejects the proposed settlement or requires that its details be tweaked). After that, VW has a 90-day window to schedule a turn-in date, so if VW wanted to be jerks about it, or if they're just disorganized, it could be January before cars can be turned in. OTOH, if VW accepts returns promptly, people could start returning them as early as October. At least, that's my reading of the situation. My money's on October or November for significant buy-back flow to begin. (Election Day, anyone? Change the President, change your car!) AFAIK, there's no distinction between model years for returns, although VW might have their own scheduling priorities.
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Old August 3rd, 2016, 12:07   #238
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For those of you who think this debacle is anything more than a speed bump for VAG, I believe you need a history lesson:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobile...tml/?a=viewall

That is but a small list of the hundreds of examples of auto companies behaving badly.

....and the "diesel is dead" crowd might want to pass the note on to GM, because they are putting a diesel back in the Cruze for the 2017 model year.
I hate to pull the "I told you so" card, but there it is:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...L03/160809957/

Straight from GM. Expect to see VW pivot on their previous statements of putting diesel in the back seat of their product line-up if GM meets their sales goals.
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Old August 3rd, 2016, 15:06   #239
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Any idea when a 2015 buyback could happen? I thought the final figures for the 2015's haven't been decided yet. I will buy another GSW if I can get a reasonable deal. I've got more than enough diesels in my yard and barn.
I was at my local dealership this morning for a warranty fix on my '15 Golf TDI. The hold up seems to be the California CARB weenies who want to bleed VW for more $$$$$$$.

What I was told by the Sales manager who had the VW pay out sheet with him:

Buy back/fix program will begin in October. A "third party" team will visit each VW dealership and handle the paperwork plus pay out/fix option.

MONIES WILL GO INTO YOUR ACCOUNT. I am not happy with that. (IRS may want to tax that money)

Buy back will also include a cash payment. Fix will include a cash payout. VW paperwork listed the numbers. For me, buy out - $27,000 + $6700 cash. I'll believe that when I see it.

Fix on MOST Diesels will include a new exhaust system with cat convertor. Probably to what Mercedes Benz installed on my (POS) '87 300TD. Parts are on the way, I'm told.

Nobody gets a new TDI motor.

This dealer knows that I've been with VW since the Air cooled days of mid '60's, so I believe that above info isn't BS to make me feel good.

But, one never knows what can happen between now and October.

As always, YMMV.
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Old August 3rd, 2016, 15:06   #240
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I hate to pull the "I told you so" card, but there it is:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...L03/160809957/

Straight from GM. Expect to see VW pivot on their previous statements of putting diesel in the back seat of their product line-up if GM meets their sales goals.
Great. Now put it in a wagon/CUV with a stick and I'll have a long look.
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