MKIV Rear Calipers - Are they all crap?

It seems like I change an unreasonable number of these. I always replace with OEM TRW calipers.

Is the ebrake mechanism just garbage? Anyone have a way to fix this ebrake mechanism? It seems that a parking brake is a simple thing to ask for on a car.

Ive had 7/8 mkiv's over the years, and yes they all seem to be garbage. Get the helper springs to prolong the issues with the e-brake.

You can take the ebrake lever off, remove the rubber boot and fill with grease, will revive the e-brake for a while.

I'll add that, this is probably more of an issue where road salt/sand is used, it works itself into the mechanism and then it dries up.

I hate the e-brake so much on mkiv's that I usually just find a flat spot to park if out and put it in gear, never use e-brake at home in my driveway!

but I like the 1000 km's on a tank too much to let it get to me!

I have original calipers on my wagon at 363K miles. We replaced rear calipers on my son's '02 Golf at 270K miles, doing fine 80K later. My other son has original calipers on his Jetta, 225K miles.

Often it's the guide pins and carriers that need service, or they get frozen up and cause the caliper to fail. Same with e-brake cables.

Certainly rear calipers wear out faster than fronts, but they also work harder (and get hotter). But in my opinion TRW (Lucas) calipers are far from junk.

Oh, and my experience is that you should either use the parking brake a lot or never. If you use it occasionally it's going to stick.

Doesn't the parking brake adjust the rear brakes for wear? If so, not using it at all seems like a bad idea. I'm pretty sure I've read that this is any issue with auto-trannys because folks with autos never use the parking brake.

I would say use the parking brake often. And if you live in a salt zone be prepared to replace a rear caliper/parking brake cable once in a while.

I think reversing and stopping adjusts the brakes for wear, not the parking brake. But I agree you should use the brake. Having learned to drive in British cars I never used the parking brake: They were worse than VWs.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I think reversing and stopping adjusts the brakes for wear, not the parking brake. But I agree you should use the brake. Having learned to drive in British cars I never used the parking brake: They were worse than VWs.

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I know that's how the old drums work*, but I don't know about calipers. I can't see how reversing would turn the caliper piston. Doesn't mean I'm correct.

*man speaking of archaic, the levers and cables... and all the stupid springs and pins. I'll replace rear calipers all day...

Replace cables all the time, rarely calipers. Although if I do, they are always new ones, as rebuilds are junk.

I also like to update the early ones to late if for any reason something needs to be replaced.

I haven't had any trouble with MkIV calipers, front or rear. But then again I change the fluid every 2 years..... if you don't.....

Now E-brake cables, on the other hand, those can be trouble. Fortunately they're easy to change and reasonably cheap.

That reminds me I went through car wash recently and lost brakes for one stop, then back to normal.
Recently I replaced parking brake cables and have been waiting for them to stretch. A couple days ago I adjusted the stretched cables back to 3 clicks on the hand brake and went for a ride. Right rear side of car goes up in smoke! Since that stinking event I have been hammering the cable armature fully to the stop before taking off. I’ll get new rotors and brakes, new guide pins and carriers and that’ll do it? Or should I save the potential hassle and get calipers too?

I'm in the process of replacing everything with the rear brakes on my car (which spent its first 15 years in Minnesota), including e-brake cables (heavier-duty ones): shields were toast, so much more work needed (hubs). I had to place a second order as I wasn't expecting the carriers to be crap- of course they were; one pin was frozen. I detest lingering brake issues so I tend to replace as much as possible with good parts and be DONE with it! (I shelled out for OEMs directly from VW for the front of the wife's car after a sticking caliper- crap brake job by some shop, using crap parts.)

In addition to changing fluid (every 2 years) one should regularly clean and re-lube the caliper slider pins. I'd say that failure to do that later is the main reason for problems.

There are multiple problems with the MK4 E-Brake system

The early style cables rot out and fill with water. Once freezing temps hit they will stick. the early ones are the worst. Also the caliper cable shaft tends to bind up from road salt and water. Finally the return springs in the calipers are really weak and make the issue even worse.

I have gotten pretty good at paying attention for any brake drag with releasing the ebrake and hitting the lever under the car when they do stick.

The optional return springs that VW sells makes a difference and getting the latest cables and guide tubes helps as well.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I think reversing and stopping adjusts the brakes for wear, not the parking brake. But I agree you should use the brake. Having learned to drive in British cars I never used the parking brake: They were worse than VWs.

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At least they went round corners! (In the dry )



Anyway I rarely have any issues with my handbrake, use it a fair bit though as that's how the queen taught me.

Regarding adjustment there is something about pulling the handbrake lever hard and pressing the pedal hard, can't remember which way round but I've found the pedal has improved after lol.

I found that out originally from having my car mot'd, brakes were better after they'd been on the tester where the mot inspector had used extra force.

I always use the brake. I guess it's time for cables and calipers...


Does anyone have a source for the crush washers for the banjo bolt?

Apparently this is only available with the brake line.

Turbodude1 said:

I always use the brake. I guess it's time for cables and calipers...


Does anyone have a source for the crush washers for the banjo bolt?

Apparently this is only available with the brake line.

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Common hardware, last time I needed one guy had it under the counter.
There are a bunch of threads about the spring and lever on the caliper to help the cable work.
Oilhammer has a great write-up on upgrade some of the bits in the rear mechanism. Does not work on the 99.5.
I think the rear calipers are crap. 2nd brake job on my old Jetta, one was froze.

Anyone happen to have the dimensions on the crush washer. It's slightly different than most I have laying around.

Believe both of mine are oem, one side is sticking the other side the parking brake doesn't work...

A little off topic but I do agree that the OE rear calipers are crap.

When I went to the big brake kit in the rear, there weren't a lot of options to make the little OE caliper fit on the large rotor. I looked at the various offerings but anything out there required mounting the OE caliper and a larger multi piston caliper.

The ones I got actually deleted the OE caliper and e-brake and replaced it with a drum style e-brake that sits inside the rotor hat so the install works and looks clean as well.

This way I can have the 4 piston stopping power and still have a functioning e-brake.

This system is in no way an economy setup but serves us well when pulling the extra weight.

http://www.hpamotorsports.com/images/products/RBBK11.jpg

Drum-style eBrakes inside the rotor "hat" have their own issues. Chevy/GMC has used this design "forever" on their full-size trucks (e.g. Suburban, Silverado, etc) and I can tell you from personal experience owning one the design SUCKS.

The reason is that the eBrake, being in the "hat" and not used for service purposes never gets hot. Thus once it gets wet it STAYS wet and inevitably turns into a ball of rust -- and that's in a "no salt on roads" environment (e.g. Florida.) In the NE or Midwest? Oh boy..... No thank you!

Genesis said:

Drum-style eBrakes inside the rotor "hat" have their own issues. Chevy/GMC has used this design "forever" on their full-size trucks (e.g. Suburban, Silverado, etc) and I can tell you from personal experience owning one the design SUCKS.

The reason is that the eBrake, being in the "hat" and not used for service purposes never gets hot. Thus once it gets wet it STAYS wet and inevitably turns into a ball of rust -- and that's in a "no salt on roads" environment (e.g. Florida.) In the NE or Midwest? Oh boy..... No thank you!

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Thanks for the input on these. I will be bringing up this with the guys at HPA. If I have to pull the rear brakes apart and dry off the drums whenever it rains, that wont work very well. Who has time for that.

I think the rotor hats are aluminum which could cut down some rust potential but if the e-brake isn't reliable or not there when you really need it. That makes for some nervous driving.

I think I will pull the rear wheels off and have a look at the e-brake this weekend. They have been in the car for almost 2 years.

I had problems with the rear brakes from day one. They were continually freezing, wearing out prematurely, etc. I replaced calipers, rotors and pads, hand brake lines countless times, I got so sick of it. 12 years of this!

Finally a mechanic suggested that perhaps the ABS unit was defective. He replaced it with another (used!) unit and they have been perfect since then! Something to consider.

If you think mk4 rear brakes are bad try a honda! Terrible rear callipers they use, ooft

Anyone use the ID Parts heavy duty parking brake cables? Might as well change those too while I am under there.

Yes they have a heavier sheathing, so they take bigger plastic clips instead of the coat style hanger to hold them in place. I put them in during frozen weather and broke one putting it in. Afterwards one cable did pop out and rubbed on inner wheel. So make sure they are secure. I even had a zip tie on that cable, but it was too cold to zip it up tight enough. I'd have to replace the new ones already if it wasn't for that sheathing. It rubbed exactly where the originals were damaged.

Rear brake problems:
1) VW put a helical mechanical adjuster inside the caliper with a shaft sticking out.
2) It's a floating caliper, not floating piston design.
3) The calipers are uncoated aluminum.
4) The new boots in replacement pad kits are as water tight as a screen.
5) The "pad retaining springs" (the steel plates between the brake pads and the caliper bracket) in most replacement pad kits are black oxide coated (OEM is stainless).
6) The brake hydraulic system is open to the atmosphere.

Items 1, 2 & 3 are manufacturing cost savers, if the car makes it out of warrantee, who cares?

Items 1 and 3 expose the parking brake mechanics to a high potential for corrosion which will bind the parking brake shaft, especially here in the rust belt. This is a large contributor to not having the parking brake release, the shaft corrodes in the brass bushing in the caliper due to exposure to the crap they put on the roads in the winter.

Item 4 is a problem for stuck (not floating) calipers, the parking brake may be functioning but if the caliper is stuck on the pin, it will drag the brake. I reuse the VW parts because they seal on both ends and keep the water out.

Items 3 & 5 are a problem that will cause a pad to drag because it can't move in the caliper like it is designed to when the brake pedal is released. I picked up a set of warrantee replacement pads from AutoZone the other day and they appear to have SS parts again. The oxide coated parts jammed tight very quickly due to corrosion.

Item 6, the unsealed hydraulic system. The recommended maintenance states that the brake fluid should be changed every 2 years, most newer ABS system equipped vehicles do this to keep the fluid serviceable in these high cycle frequency systems. But, THERE IS NO SEAL ON THE BRAKE FLUID RESERVOIR TO KEEP THE FLUID FROM ABSORBING MOISTURE FROM THE ATMOSPHERE! Nothing! There's actually a freaking vent hole in the filler cap (but you might have to break it to find it). I discovered this awesome feature while making my pressure bleed system (the best way to bleed these cars).

To keep these systems working you need to:
- Change the fluid every 2 years.
- Use SS parts on the rear calipers.
- Make sure the pads are free to move in the caliper bracket.
- Make sure the calipers can move on the pins.
- Use pin boots that seal tight on both ends.
- Use a good weatherproof lube on the pins and the pad edges. (I'm trying Sta-Lube synthetic brake and caliper lube. I've tried Copper anti-seize and Syl-glyde but neither lasts).
- Check and re-lube everything periodically. I re-lube the pins and make sure the pads can float every spring when I put the summer tires on.

These are high maintenance systems but if you stay on top of it, they do work pretty good.

The above post has some misinformation.

But I do agree that, especially given how slowly the wear can be on these brakes, that periodic lubing of both the guide pins and pad perches (especially in salt pit areas) makes a big difference.

And I think that a lot of people who are replacing calipers are dong so unnecessarily. I started a thread about the OEM parking (there is no such thing as an "emergency" brake") brake cables being upgraded. I think this would help, but the biggest issue there is if the boots at the rear end of the cables allow water, especially brine, into the cable sheath, not much you can do. Gravity is not on your side there. At least most models the cables are not hard to replace.

I think some reasonably diligent maintenance can prevent all the problems listed here. Maintain parking brake cables, use the brake, and replace when they start to get tired. Lubricate the guide pins periodically. Clean out the bores in the carriers when needed. Wash your car regularly in the winter in salt areas, including an undercarriage wash. Doing these things seems to prolong caliper life.

Turbodude1 said:

Anyone use the ID Parts heavy duty parking brake cables? Might as well change those too while I am under there.

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They were the easiest upgrade I ever did.
Parking brake holds good again.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I think some reasonably diligent maintenance can prevent all the problems listed here. Maintain parking brake cables, use the brake, and replace when they start to get tired. Lubricate the guide pins periodically. Clean out the bores in the carriers when needed. Wash your car regularly in the winter in salt areas, including an undercarriage wash. Doing these things seems to prolong caliper life.

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And don't use the wrong kind of grease or other lube because it'll kill the rubber parts!

Seen so many ruined with copper grease and WD40

Can somebody recommend a good quality caliper grease? The stuff I buy from the local parts store does not seem to last.

They make a high temperature grease, I've had the same can (Wagner/Lockheed) for at least 40 years. It's labelled "Brake Lubricant".