1.2 TDI tuning/info

Vekke

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A8 with 1.2 TDI VW Lupo 3L --> 2L (retired)
This is mainly related for ANY and AYZ engine codes information.

The 1.2 TDI has stock 360er injectors, but some later models might have little bit bigger ones. From factory engine came with 61 hp and 140 NM.

Bone stock lupo 3L or audi A2 3L can deliver max roughly 90 hp and 250 Nm.

With straigth piping you can get the power roughly to 95 hp.

If you still have the hydraulic gearbox system in place max torgue limit for slipping clutch is between 170-200Nm. So your clutch will slip if you try to make more. The hydraulic systems leaves the clutch little bit on so it slips easier...

When converted to manual slipping limit is usually 230+ Nm

If you start putting bigger turbo like I did BV35 and straight piping you might be able to get up to 100 hp like in this run. (not dynoed)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqAxJvdcyPQ

After that I installed 560er injectors and gor the power to 119 hp and 284.8 nm on the dyno. Boost max is 1.7 bar and drops to 1.3 in revlimiter around 4800rpm. That setup is not tuned at the moment for low end torgue as current gearbox cannot handle it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfLkrMTnuOk

My engine has now 290000km in the clock and stock pressure plate with new 1.6d caddy disc which needed little bit of modifications. No slipping at the moment.

Next power target is set to 144 hp. This current engine will be tuned to breaking point to find what is the weakest link and how much hp and torgue can you produce. This next setup will have 02j or some other big gearbox which can take what this small engine can make.

I will "off" balance big flywheel to match lupos original offbalance and after that system should work just fine.

More pics on the setup can be found https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.260828010597758.84063.163711023642791&type=1
 
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Vekke

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A8 with 1.2 TDI VW Lupo 3L --> 2L (retired)
Fuel consumption is quite good ;).

Best so far is 2.05 l/100km at 90 km/h avg speed. That is 114.79 mpg (US) at 56 MPH.
 

ryanp

Vendor
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
TDI
Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
Someone in the US would kill for the 3l engine, then you could upgrade to 1.4tdi!

those MPG's are crazy! haha 137.8mpg in UK numbers! haha
 

Vekke

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A8 with 1.2 TDI VW Lupo 3L --> 2L (retired)
Do you know what turbo did he use in that setup?
 

intaketommy

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Location
Europe
TDI
VW Polo PD130
Our Lupo 3L smokes a lot, because of damaged injector ... so time for upgrade :)

Engine is the same:
1.2 TDI
AYZ
PD61
R3 vnt turbocharged (oem: Garrett GT1441V ....small!!!:D)

Before injector failure we converted the gearbox to manual and installed a new sachs oem clutch.
We did a "eco" tune up to 75hp/175Nm ... not so high numbers, but in this light car 830kg!! ... it pulls really great (Audi A4 Quattro 200hp had some issues :p)
other modifications:
-race pipe (egr + asv delete)
-map based tune
-car had 2 cats, we deleted one
-bigger downpipe 45mm
-some weight goes out of the car (maybe 40kg)
The car get easily 2,7-3,1 L/100km in "normal" mode. In race mode never get over 4L/100km .... at full seed @200km/h the consumption is about 6l.




... sealing was damaged, so smokes a lot at idle and at full boost there was a new VW Emission standard :cool:




...our "new" pd injectors with 520er nozzles. We get these very cheap.




... the new turbo is a Garrett GTC1444VZ (from CR105).

Why we go to the newer turbo? We hope the charger will spool before 2000rpm on this very small engine ....we like low end torqe ;)

power target:
130hp @4200rpm and 200NM hopefully @ 2000rpm

... so with these numbers the Lupo 3L will run like beast :D
 
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Vekke

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A8 with 1.2 TDI VW Lupo 3L --> 2L (retired)
Our Lupo 3L smokes a lot, because of damaged injector ... so time for upgrade :)
... the new turbo is a Garrett GTC1444VZ (from CR105).

Why we go to the newer turbo? We hope the charger will spool before 2000rpm on this very small engine ....we like low end torqe ;)

power target:
130hp @4200rpm and 200NM hopefully @ 2000rpm

... so with these numbers the Lupo 3L will run like beast :D
Any updates with this GTC1444VZ turbo?
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
maybe gtd1244vz from 1,6 tdi mk7 will be nice. on the 1.6 it makes around 145hp safely. low end boost 1.75 bar is no problem.
 

Iwcham

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
TDI
golf,2003, grey-metalic
Hi guys, I have a Lupo 3L and converted it to manual. I used some modified Polo 1.4Tdi 9N map I found on the internet. The car drives fine but loses all gut at 120km/h, thats the uppermost limit, floored and nothing happens... so I guess it must be the map. I have a new clutch, and want to do a remap... What is the safe limit for the turbo and the injectors, for now? If I decide to go for 120hp.... what engine are 560er injectors and BV35 turbo from? What about the clutch. Is there an uprated clutch for more than 90hp, because you mentioned that it is the slipping limit?
 
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Chrislupo

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Location
Germany
TDI
Lupo3L1.2TDI,Lupo1.4TDI,Golf51.9TDI
I used some modified Polo 1.4Tdi 9N map I found on the internet gut at 120km/h, thats the uppermost limit, floored and nothing happens... so I guess it must be the map.
Hi, all 1.4 tdi 75 hp are equipped with wastegate turbo,
you need the map from a audi A2 with 90 hp,
the only 1.4 tdi with vtg turbo...
 
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Iwcham

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
TDI
golf,2003, grey-metalic
So you mean fashing the stock a2 1.4Tdi map could work?! Very interesting idea if possible :)

Sent from my HTC Desire 526G dual sim using Tapatalk
 
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Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
maybe at least make the duration and timing maps correct for the 1.2 hardware.
 

Iwcham

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
TDI
golf,2003, grey-metalic
Nice. I would be satisfied with the 90hp at the moment. Will it be on the limit for the turbo and the injectors? I dont want it on the limit tho. I could get 1.9tdi injectors, if it is too much for the stock ones, but what about the turbo? Is there a bigger turbo that I could fit plug&play in case i get greedy? (I dont mind deleting egr/asv if needed) I dont know anything about editing maps, but I could flash the A2 90hp file myself.... :)

anything with the same down pipe fixing and all?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbolader...809824&hash=item23568a53ea:g:NQsAAOSwXsFajnH1
 
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Chrislupo

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Location
Germany
TDI
Lupo3L1.2TDI,Lupo1.4TDI,Golf51.9TDI
I dont know anything about editing maps, but I could flash the A2 90hp file myself.... :)
maybe at least make the duration and timing maps correct for the 1.2 hardware.
Rub87 say it, not the best option...
The question is, can you read out the data from my ecu?
Thats all you need at the moment..manual swap+tune for 1.2 tdi
I dont know exactly hp but run 200km/h..(speedometer)
 

Iwcham

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
TDI
golf,2003, grey-metalic
No Chris, I couldn't read it :) Can you send it somehow? It would be all I need :) Atm the car goes like a turtle. it drives ok up to 80km/h and then slowly dies at 120km
If you can, please send it at iwcham1979@yahoo.com or here if possible..
 
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Chrislupo

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Location
Germany
TDI
Lupo3L1.2TDI,Lupo1.4TDI,Golf51.9TDI
Im only a mechanic,
the tune are from the shop link above..
At the moment i dont need the tuned ecu,
because I buyed another lupo3l with better options,black interiour and power steering.
and thats the actual problem, electric power steering and manual swap is a bigger problem than I think...
We need a person which can read out my ecu.
I dont know one
 

Iwcham

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
TDI
golf,2003, grey-metalic
Ok, i didnt get you. Every tuner can read it for you if you need it.... The link you provided, they sell manula Lupo 3l map for 200euros, too much... maybe acceptable for somebody from Germany, but I would have to send my Ecu to Germany, or buy it and have it reprogrammed and sent to me....
 
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Chrislupo

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Location
Germany
TDI
Lupo3L1.2TDI,Lupo1.4TDI,Golf51.9TDI
they sell manula Lupo 3l map for 200euros, too much...
Thats not all, with tune near 500 euro...
But I buy the whole car for 600 with manual+tune
and need only new cables for PD..
But thats not the point.
Perhaps someone from this forum, from germany or near..,
can read out my ecu..
Thats only postage and back...
 

Iwcham

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
TDI
golf,2003, grey-metalic
Ok. Thanks for the links. So the best option would be to hybrid the stock turbo and get bigger injectors.... :)
 

Chrislupo

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Location
Germany
TDI
Lupo3L1.2TDI,Lupo1.4TDI,Golf51.9TDI
So the best option would be to hybrid the stock turbo
Its a old turbo design, to make a hybrid is not the best option.
I dont know if a hybrid is possible in this case, but a adaption of a new designed turbo is the best.
 

Iwcham

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
TDI
golf,2003, grey-metalic
Yep. For now i am going to remap it to 80-85hp to give it some breathing room.... ;)
 

Iwcham

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
TDI
golf,2003, grey-metalic
Hi guys, some problems so please help. My 3L converted to manual. I thought my map was simply bad so I went to a tuner who flashed the map from another 3L he personally custom made, first stock and after that the tuned map. There was no improvement. The car pulls in the 1st and 2nd gear but then loses alll power and the dyno shows that it has about 30hp in 5th gear at 120km/h. There were no codes, the log showed that the turbo was fine, no boost leaks, BUT the tuner said that the ECU requires 1000mg air but the engine gets only 500-600 for some reason. He tried unplugging the Maf sensor which did nothing whatsoever. He tried putting his own maf from his remapped.Ibiza 1.4tdi, which also did nothing! Any ideas guys? There is no smoke whatsoever on the dyno. He didnt like it, said the diesel should make at least some smoke on the dyno...
This is the stock and the tuned map from another 3L. So the coclusio was that it is not the map but a mechanical issue?
 
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Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
Ifhe thinks at wot the airflow/boost is comtrolled using requested maf i think u better find another tuner
 

DenisStrok

New member
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Location
Sweden
TDI
Audi A2 1.2tdi 3L
Hi,

First post here! :)

I have a Audi A2 1.2tdi 3L, which currently is stock, but will undergo some tuning beyond just a remap.
I have a Sachs race clutch and pressure plate on order which will transmit 30% more torque than standard clutch does, so should be safe to have around 250nm.

I also plan to turn in the car to "Uppsala avgasteknik" here in Sweden to replace the exhaust from turbo and back with a custom built, larger diameter one. After translating various forums regarding tuning the 3L engine I understand this first bottleneck tuning beyond remap encounters.

I estimate, and hope that this will give me somewhere between 110-120hp and 250nm.

I know I know, a manual conversion is probably to prefer but I will keep the semi auto gearbox for now :)

1, Does anyone know the original exhaust diameter and which diameter I should upgrade to?
2, will stock fuel injectors work with this power?
3, will stock turbo be able to deliver this figures?

Thanks for any reply and cheers for awesome forum! :)
 
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