www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+)

VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) Discussion area for the 2012+ Passat TDI (North American and rest of world versions versions). The North American model was previously codenamed NMS (New Midsize Sedan) and the version the rest of the world gets is sometimes referred to as B7.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 1st, 2017, 18:43   #31
mejpassat
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadawson View Post
I own two (2013 Passat SEL and 2015 Passat SEL), and also actively work in the pro audio world. It's tubby, but I am not convinced that that is due to the components as compared to a by-design voicing/eq problem. It's not like a car trunk is a well designed, tuned, or ported enclosure . . . As I said, one day I'll get bored and profile it with SMAART, but short of that, everything else is a variation on a guess . . . And since we all hear things a bit differently, I was curious . . . and to your initial question, the 258 vs. 350 in the CJ7 depends on your expectations and needs. For many, it may accomplish nothing other than getting to the scene of the rollover accident faster . . . or may be imperceptible to those with a light foot . . . there is no single, obvious answer, so I ask . . .

And you may be right and have a problem or defect. I feel I have a pretty critical ear, and while it isn't stellar, I really don't feel that mine are that bad (and I can typically tune systems pretty close by ear . . . but also have analysis tools . . .).

I do recall someone speculating (not sure if it was ever proven) that on his car, speakers had been installed with the polarity inverted, thus resulting in vague imaging . . . something to consider as well . . .
Well said, my thoughts were to some day swap speakers out for some Alpine matching speakers.
In general use I find the Fender setup to be acceptable....but then again, I don't have it blasting either.
__________________
mejpassat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2017, 06:21   #32
mirage2521
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NW Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rustycat View Post
I agree the speakers are crap. Since speakers are the last link in the chain and what the sound comes out of, I consider them to be of significant importance-- certainly of more importantance than the head unit, although in a well-designed application they would be very complimentary to each other. That being said, I listen in the midrange, in fact. my hf hearing peters out at around 7khz and I view bass as needed, but I really don't give it a fraction of the importance that I give the mid range. Hence, my puzzlement at you and your 'tech's' zeroing in on the sub.
OTOH, if you listen to Taiko Drums, then I get your thinking.
The point of doing so is to remove the lows from the equation. The addition of a separately controlled sub allow us to lower the bass on the head unit to near zero and use those controls to control the mids and the highs and use the separate sub controller to control the lows. That way there is far less low freq signal being sent to the Fender speakers. Its simply step one.

There is are a lot of lows coming out of the door speakers in my car with the bass turned up enough to balance the sub. Adding the self-contained, separately controlled sub mean the Fender amp n longer has to try to push the sub and the mids with the same signals.

Keep in mind, I am no car audio expert but I have spent 200 nights in a holiday Inn Express in the last 12 months.
__________________
Diesels past and present 2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2013 JSW TDI, 2010 Jetta TDI, MB 300D
2003 Ford F250 6.0l Power Stroke


mirage2521 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2017, 06:22   #33
mirage2521
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NW Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rustycat View Post
Perhaps the first step would be to carry a demo CD to the Dealership and ask to play it in another 15 SEL for comparison.

BTW, I emailed Dynaudio and inquired if the new speakers for the B8 would be a swap for the door speakers in the B7. If they respond and indicate that would be something that could work, I'll post their response.

That is most definitely on my agenda as soon as I get home from this business trip.
__________________
Diesels past and present 2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2013 JSW TDI, 2010 Jetta TDI, MB 300D
2003 Ford F250 6.0l Power Stroke


mirage2521 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2017, 06:27   #34
mirage2521
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NW Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadawson View Post
I own two (2013 Passat SEL and 2015 Passat SEL), and also actively work in the pro audio world. It's tubby, but I am not convinced that that is due to the components as compared to a by-design voicing/eq problem. It's not like a car trunk is a well designed, tuned, or ported enclosure . . . As I said, one day I'll get bored and profile it with SMAART, but short of that, everything else is a variation on a guess . . . And since we all hear things a bit differently, I was curious . . . and to your initial question, the 258 vs. 350 in the CJ7 depends on your expectations and needs. For many, it may accomplish nothing other than getting to the scene of the rollover accident faster . . . or may be imperceptible to those with a light foot . . . there is no single, obvious answer, so I ask . . .

And you may be right and have a problem or defect. I feel I have a pretty critical ear, and while it isn't stellar, I really don't feel that mine are that bad (and I can typically tune systems pretty close by ear . . . but also have analysis tools . . .).

I do recall someone speculating (not sure if it was ever proven) that on his car, speakers had been installed with the polarity inverted, thus resulting in vague imaging . . . something to consider as well . . .
Well it seems to me that you are way more technically versed in this subject than I am. I am simply going by the seat of my pants and past audio experiences. Where are you putting your EQ setting as a baseline. Is your fade control centered? Are there any other volume/clarity affecting settings that I have not found. I have yet to see any manuals on this gear.

BTW "first to the scene of the rollover" LOL...pretty funny
__________________
Diesels past and present 2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2013 JSW TDI, 2010 Jetta TDI, MB 300D
2003 Ford F250 6.0l Power Stroke


mirage2521 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2017, 09:56   #35
Mixchump
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Stratford, ON Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage2521 View Post
...(snip)... I am simply going by the seat of my pants and past audio experiences. Where are you putting your EQ setting as a baseline. Is your fade control centered? Are there any other volume/clarity affecting settings that I have not found. I have yet to see any manuals on this gear...(snip)...
I think your instincts are bang on, and your comments echo several friends of mine that actually backed away from NMS Passats because the audio system was so bad.

My general feeling about this is that there is no excuse or rationale for bad sound in a modern day vehicle. If a customer wants to upgrade a system and make it more powerful, fine, but the base-level audio system should at least sound good at normal listening levels.

My only possible explanation is that they've somehow done a whole ton of Digital Signal Processing programmed into the factory head unit that is intended to make the bluetooth phone capabilities work without feedback, predictably and able to null out background noise, etc. It's the only possible explanation for how terrible it sounds.

I suspect that the factory speakers are probably decent, if given good quality signal. Poor driver design alone is not capable of the kind of $hyte that is coming out of these things.
Mixchump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2017, 15:07   #36
tadawson
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lewisville, TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage2521 View Post
Well it seems to me that you are way more technically versed in this subject than I am. I am simply going by the seat of my pants and past audio experiences. Where are you putting your EQ setting as a baseline. Is your fade control centered? Are there any other volume/clarity affecting settings that I have not found. I have yet to see any manuals on this gear.

BTW "first to the scene of the rollover" LOL...pretty funny
Hey, it's a Jeep CJ . . . :-) :-)

Balance in centered, high +2 increments (or +1 - I wish I could get 1-1/2 . . ) midrange at center, bass -1 . . . I was playing with it this AM running a CD of "Dreamboat Annie", and that gave me nice crisp sound on hi-hat, and good breath and definition in vocals. Acoustic guitars were nicely balanced, and kick drum, while not as solid as I prefer, was pretty decent. Any more on the bass control and it feels like it piles up around 400Hz or so (which is my main objection) muddying up bass and other lower pitched instruments. Imaging was pretty good, and I was probably hitting 90dB or so . . . not stupid loud, but not background volumes either.

No other controls I know of, but quality varies a lot between sources. Sat is very weak on highs, mp3 is fair, and no great love for Bluetooth . . . the HD radio isn't too bad (if you can deal with broadcast compression) . . . all in all, my ears tell me that a CD is the best . . .

Last edited by tadawson; July 2nd, 2017 at 15:10.
tadawson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2017, 00:23   #37
New Mickey
The user formerly known as mickey
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Utah
TDI(s): 2015 Passat
Default

I think it sounds great for a factory setup. The sub is more "boom" than "thump" but you can blame hip-hop culture for that. That's what car makers think we want.

-mickey
New Mickey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2017, 00:26   #38
rustycat
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: seattle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadawson View Post
Hey, it's a Jeep CJ . . . :-) :-)

Balance in centered, high +2 increments (or +1 - I wish I could get 1-1/2 . . ) midrange at center, bass -1 . . . I was playing with it this AM running a CD of "Dreamboat Annie", and that gave me nice crisp sound on hi-hat, and good breath and definition in vocals. Acoustic guitars were nicely balanced, and kick drum, while not as solid as I prefer, was pretty decent. Any more on the bass control and it feels like it piles up around 400Hz or so (which is my main objection) muddying up bass and other lower pitched instruments. Imaging was pretty good, and I was probably hitting 90dB or so . . . not stupid loud, but not background volumes either.

No other controls I know of, but quality varies a lot between sources. Sat is very weak on highs, mp3 is fair, and no great love for Bluetooth . . . the HD radio isn't too bad (if you can deal with broadcast compression) . . . all in all, my ears tell me that a CD is the best . . .
Yeah, CD is the best, an FM can be as good, if the station isn't compressing too much (which is rare).
rustycat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2017, 00:32   #39
New Mickey
The user formerly known as mickey
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Utah
TDI(s): 2015 Passat
Default

Too bad it's not pre-CBS Fender corporate buyout......

-mickey
New Mickey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2017, 11:55   #40
tc1uscg
Veteran Member
 
tc1uscg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pluto
TDI(s): SOLD TO VW
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage2521 View Post
My biggest complaint is the "premium" Fender audio system. What an incredible disappointment. Has anyone had any luck making improvements on this thing? On my Jettas I replaced the OEM speakers with some Alpines and added a small powered sub woofer and the systems produce sound quality far superior to this Fender. Anyone tried anything short of ripping the whole thing out and replacing it?

I've complained about my Fender system since day one. Sound is so/so. Not as defined as I had hoped. I had a 2001 Chrysler LHS that had a Infinity sound system that blows this thing away. Don't get me started on the worthless nav system and the slow slow back up camera system. My only standard to compare is my 2011 Town&Country. granted the minivan only has 8 speakers, it sounds pretty good inside the loaf of bread and I just expected my 1800 bucks would have gotten me something to write home about. Pressing a button to change the stations confuses it sometime (slow to react). It's the model that can't get any "fixes" and starting the car, pressing the power button to turn it on and getting "system starting" splash screen is beyond frustrating, so needless to say, after this sep, I'm not going to miss these problems. Not getting the fix. That's when we are scheduled to turn it in for the buy back.
__________________
No More TDI

Last edited by tc1uscg; July 3rd, 2017 at 12:03.
tc1uscg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2017, 12:19   #41
tc1uscg
Veteran Member
 
tc1uscg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pluto
TDI(s): SOLD TO VW
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rustycat View Post
Yeah, CD is the best, an FM can be as good, if the station isn't compressing too much (which is rare).

What I have found is MP3's played off it's hard drive sound better then a music loaded dvd. I've also noticed this in my minivan which has a hard drive (Chrysler). But everyone's hearing might be attuned to certain frequencies levels then others. I spent many years working with Morse Code. Use to have my ears checked every year (job requirement). Seemed I was "bass starved" and would crank the bass higher then most would when I would listen to music. What sounds good to one, sounds like it's from inside a tin can to to others.
__________________
No More TDI
tc1uscg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2017, 17:03   #42
Mixchump
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Stratford, ON Canada
Default

Yes, of course the bottom end is way too tubby with this system, but even with some radical eq corrections, the QUALITY of the audio coming out of these head units is atrocious.

Does anyone on this thread have a Jetta / Golf with the factory stereo, up to around model year 2004 or 2005?

That system sounded fantastic. Absolutely top notch. I'm not blasting loud music, I just want it to sound good when I listen to music. I honestly don't understand what's so hard about making audio gear sound good. I was so shocked when I took delivery of my 2012 Passat that I took it back to the dealer several times, absolutely convinced that they had wired the system backwards from the crossovers.

Not to mention the fact that the L-R signals were reversed on the Aux Input (all you early Van Halen fans know what I'm talkin' aboot!)
Mixchump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2017, 22:23   #43
tadawson
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lewisville, TX
Default

Define what 'quality' means to you . . . To me, you have frequency response, impulse response, distortion and level, and that pretty much defines it . . . .
tadawson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2017, 22:32   #44
rustycat
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: seattle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadawson View Post
Define what 'quality' means to you . . . To me, you have frequency response, impulse response, distortion and level, and that pretty much defines it . . . .
Well......it's like Art. you know it when you hear it.
rustycat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2017, 23:20   #45
tadawson
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lewisville, TX
Default

To an extent, but technology and science is capable of measuring audio, unlike art . . . and I have known folks that though absolute crap sounded good (typically fans of (c)Rap, ironically . . .), so while I respect your opinion, you did duck the question! We know what we like and don't like, and most can describe why that is . . .
tadawson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fender upgrade on 2015 passat? wolf1389 VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) 4 January 10th, 2017 07:21
Fender Audio LOC carlrx7 VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) 2 July 27th, 2016 19:35
Fender audio, do u like it so far? JackMars VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) 18 August 10th, 2015 16:13
2012 Passat Non Fender Audio Upgrade Texas Realtor VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) 30 September 24th, 2014 08:24
Passat Fender Audio Fix @ 6,000 mile Courtesy Check 03-246 VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) 34 May 11th, 2012 04:21


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.18660 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 135.91 Kb. compressed to 114.75 Kb. by saving 21.16 Kb. (15.57%)]