Is KBB stupid?

czeetah · February 1st, 2017, 21:07

Trying to figure out some business taxy stuff.

Went to kbb to do a "what's my value"

It's telling me my 2014 (3-4yo) passat TDI SE with a manual and 28000 miles is worth between 18.7 (lowest condition) and 21.2K (excellent shape)

And of course I'm like, uh, it was $21.5K new (don't count taxes, reg, etc.)

Where can I go to get a real value? And not "oh I looked on e*bay" but something you could show to the taxman and go "oh look, this reputable reference XYZ said this, here is the printout of the online appraisal"

jrm · February 1st, 2017, 21:43

VW TDI car values were frozen when diesel gate came out, so that is your true value if you got in a wreck, glad kbb is keeping up on that as they normally do not- a friend totaled his 2006 dodge diesel and kbb shows the value at 15k when you cannot find a used one in the same condition for below 25k, so he pretty much lost 10 thousand bucks because some chick with a dirty window got sun glare and hit him head on.

740GLE · February 2nd, 2017, 04:08

that's the value KBB assigned to it, call your insurance for "totaled" value, prob going to be much much different

pdq import repair · February 2nd, 2017, 05:27

I don't know about where you live, but out here in the wilderness all the car dealers and banks and insurance companies use NADA values. I share a building and lot with a large used car dealer and when I mention KBB value he says "forget that number, let me get you a real value." He also will do a carfax to see if there is a reason to alter the number he gets.

He says that it is a numbers game and they all play by the same numbers. There can also be local popularity and rarity, or other factors to skew numbers but the numbers all start at the same place.

I know around here the TDI values are higher than book for a car on the lot. People will and do pay extra for it, and they don't stay on the lot long, if they even hit the lot. I think the book values are based on real sales and will eventually catch up. The blue books are updated quarterly and based of previous quarters values so the time lag could be 6 months to a year at best, and don't really reflect geographic data that much.

If you need a tax value I would take the number most beneficial to you and try to defend it if needed. Rather though, I suspect they have their own book values and you should ask them which book they use in order to be "audit safe". They have to tell you as a matter of public record disclosure.

Otherwise, buying or selling a car, you can use the numbers that give you the best advantage with no penalty other than conscience.

jjblbi · February 2nd, 2017, 09:42

When buying or selling a used car you can consult KBB, NADA and Edmunds pricing guides. Depends if you want a high number or low number. You could always average the values, I doubt anyone could argue that result.

You also have VW's buy-back pricing. Although maybe inflated, it is a real world standing offer for your vehicle.

BarryT82 · February 3rd, 2017, 03:45

They didn't freeze the Audi TDI value. The value that it shows on my Q5 is really low. You won't find one for sale at the price KBB shows. I hope they buy them back because the Buyback value is more than the new MSRP.

adjat84th · February 4th, 2017, 14:01

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...82#post5232682

Could be that, because you can't currently buy one new, the used market is starting to react to that demand?

IndigoBlueWagon · February 4th, 2017, 14:38

Why wouldn't you use the initial cost and apply a depreciation schedule? And do you really think the IRS is going to question a car's valuation on your return? I'd pick a number your accountant feels is reasonable and defensible and let it go at that.

Mr. Furious · February 8th, 2017, 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryT82

They didn't freeze the Audi TDI value. The value that it shows on my Q5 is really low. You won't find one for sale at the price KBB shows. I hope they buy them back because the Buyback value is more than the new MSRP.

Same with mine. The "very good" condition trade-in value on the 2013 Passat TDI SEL that I just had bought back came up at $12,180. My buyback amount was around $20K before adding in the additional restitution amount.

rollcoal · July 1st, 2017, 19:55

On 10/26/15, I checked the KBB value on my 2013 Passat TDI SEL: 30k miles, private sale, very good = $19,812. Just checked again today (7/1/17): 59k, private sale, very good = $20,058. It's tough to understand how I can put 29k on the car and the KBB value is the same. Supply and demand?
I found a 2015 Passat SEL with 56k today in Michigan. Dealer is asking $22,670 so it could be that KBB isn't too far off and it makes me believe that my car still has some value.

jrm · July 1st, 2017, 20:31

kbb is pretty crazy, shows our nms being well above market values while showing mint condition diesel pickups at 15K lower than actual values
-see my post above

nord · July 2nd, 2017, 04:57

Just an aside...

Bought a '13 SEL Premium for a bit over $28k out the door on 4/15/13. VW will buy back this Thursday for just slightly less than $30k. Tell me I didn't hit the lottery!

VeeDubTDI · July 6th, 2017, 09:25

These vehicles are very difficult to valuate right now due to the buyback, restitution payments on salvage title vehicles, and the general frenzy surrounding TDIs.

Initially, values were in the tank because nobody would touch them with a 10-foot pole. After VW announced the buybacks, their values crept up steadily as people were buying them at auction and from salvage yards to turn around and flip back to VW. We're still seeing those lingering highs due to the settlement, combined with generally high demand for whatever leftover TDIs are still on the market.

KBB isn't really stupid - just caught in the middle of a very unusual and unprecedented time in automotive history. I think diesel pickup trucks will experience similar market fluctuations over the next few years.

New Mickey · July 7th, 2017, 13:01

What KBB says and what the real world says are two different things. The industry expects VW to take a HUGE hit on TDI lease returns because they expect the resale value to be horrible, due to the scandal.

This is an unprecedented situation and I don't think there is any way to determine the value of a "cheater" TDI unless you actually sell it.

-mickey

740GLE · July 10th, 2017, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Mickey

This is an unprecedented situation and I don't think there is any way to determine the value of a "cheater" TDI unless you actually sell it.

-mickey

Insurance will know, and it will be wayyyyyy under that KBB value. If anyone is willing to under cut values it'll be the insurance value on a totaled car.