VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) Discussion area for the 2012+ Passat TDI (North American and rest of world versions versions). The North American model was previously codenamed NMS (New Midsize Sedan) and the version the rest of the world gets is sometimes referred to as B7. |
February 1st, 2017, 21:07
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#1
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Mountains, NC
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Is Kelly Blue Book stupid?
Trying to figure out some business taxy stuff.
Went to kbb to do a "what's my value"
It's telling me my 2014 (3-4yo) passat TDI SE with a manual and 28000 miles is worth between 18.7 (lowest condition) and 21.2K (excellent shape)
And of course I'm like, uh, it was $21.5K new (don't count taxes, reg, etc.)
Where can I go to get a real value? And not "oh I looked on e*bay" but something you could show to the taxman and go "oh look, this reputable reference XYZ said this, here is the printout of the online appraisal"
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February 1st, 2017, 21:43
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#2
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oregon
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VW TDI car values were frozen when diesel gate came out, so that is your true value if you got in a wreck, glad kbb is keeping up on that as they normally do not- a friend totaled his 2006 dodge diesel and kbb shows the value at 15k when you cannot find a used one in the same condition for below 25k, so he pretty much lost 10 thousand bucks because some chick with a dirty window got sun glare and hit him head on.
__________________
2013 Passat TDI SE+NAV 48MPG
2001 Honda civic 40MPG
1985 VW idi 1.6 Golf 55MPG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo-YUR1_DaU
1996 Dodge mechanical Cummins 12V 2500 4x4 that gets 20MPG
1990 Toyota xcab 4x4 3.0 v6 (3.slow) 15MPG
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February 2nd, 2017, 04:08
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#3
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NH
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that's the value KBB assigned to it, call your insurance for "totaled" value, prob going to be much much different
__________________
Hers: 2015 Passat SEL (NOS) w/ VW fix and Malone Stage 2.
His: 2017 Alltrack SE, waiting for TSI to TDI conversion kits to be released.
Bought back 2010 Sedan, cog swapper, build date 07/09, BB 6/7/16. 2012 Passat, Roof+Nav, build date 05/12, BB 7/11
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February 2nd, 2017, 05:27
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#4
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: idaho
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I don't know about where you live, but out here in the wilderness all the car dealers and banks and insurance companies use NADA values. I share a building and lot with a large used car dealer and when I mention KBB value he says "forget that number, let me get you a real value." He also will do a carfax to see if there is a reason to alter the number he gets.
He says that it is a numbers game and they all play by the same numbers. There can also be local popularity and rarity, or other factors to skew numbers but the numbers all start at the same place.
I know around here the TDI values are higher than book for a car on the lot. People will and do pay extra for it, and they don't stay on the lot long, if they even hit the lot. I think the book values are based on real sales and will eventually catch up. The blue books are updated quarterly and based of previous quarters values so the time lag could be 6 months to a year at best, and don't really reflect geographic data that much.
If you need a tax value I would take the number most beneficial to you and try to defend it if needed. Rather though, I suspect they have their own book values and you should ask them which book they use in order to be "audit safe". They have to tell you as a matter of public record disclosure.
Otherwise, buying or selling a car, you can use the numbers that give you the best advantage with no penalty other than conscience.
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February 2nd, 2017, 09:42
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#5
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: lbi, nj
Fuel Economy: 45 mpg S, 42 mpg W
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When buying or selling a used car you can consult KBB, NADA and Edmunds pricing guides. Depends if you want a high number or low number. You could always average the values, I doubt anyone could argue that result.
You also have VW's buy-back pricing. Although maybe inflated, it is a real world standing offer for your vehicle.
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February 3rd, 2017, 03:45
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#6
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Charleston, WV
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They didn't freeze the Audi TDI value. The value that it shows on my Q5 is really low. You won't find one for sale at the price KBB shows. I hope they buy them back because the Buyback value is more than the new MSRP.
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February 4th, 2017, 14:01
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#7
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Fuel Economy: ~50 in mixed driving
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http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...82#post5232682
Could be that, because you can't currently buy one new, the used market is starting to react to that demand?
__________________
 
'01 Jetta | 17/22, 3bar MAP, 11mm IP/Lift pump, PD 150, OMI, FMIC, PP502s, SBC st3, .685 5th, Malone Stage 5
'15 Golf | GTD1752vrk, 4bar MAP, CP3, Peloquin LSD, DC stage 3 w/ SMF, Fluidampr
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February 4th, 2017, 14:38
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#8
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
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Why wouldn't you use the initial cost and apply a depreciation schedule? And do you really think the IRS is going to question a car's valuation on your return? I'd pick a number your accountant feels is reasonable and defensible and let it go at that.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 362K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 197K; 1997 Passat, 285K; '99.5 Golf, 257K; 2011 335d, 56K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 8K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI
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February 8th, 2017, 06:37
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#9
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryT82
They didn't freeze the Audi TDI value. The value that it shows on my Q5 is really low. You won't find one for sale at the price KBB shows. I hope they buy them back because the Buyback value is more than the new MSRP.
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Same with mine. The "very good" condition trade-in value on the 2013 Passat TDI SEL that I just had bought back came up at $12,180. My buyback amount was around $20K before adding in the additional restitution amount.
__________________
Document Submission 10/6/2016, Acceptance 11/7/2017
Offer Letter Submitted & Accepted 12/21/2016
Turn-In Completed 2/2/2017, Chase E-mail Received 2/3/2017, Funds Available 2/6/2017, Loan Paid 2/17/2017
2013 Passat TDI SEL with non-VW loan; replacement vehicle: 2017 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
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July 1st, 2017, 19:55
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#10
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Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Connecticut
Fuel Economy: 50-54 to and from work. 42 grand total avg
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On 10/26/15, I checked the KBB value on my 2013 Passat TDI SEL: 30k miles, private sale, very good = $19,812. Just checked again today (7/1/17): 59k, private sale, very good = $20,058. It's tough to understand how I can put 29k on the car and the KBB value is the same. Supply and demand?
I found a 2015 Passat SEL with 56k today in Michigan. Dealer is asking $22,670 so it could be that KBB isn't too far off and it makes me believe that my car still has some value.
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July 1st, 2017, 20:31
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#11
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oregon
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kbb is pretty crazy, shows our nms being well above market values while showing mint condition diesel pickups at 15K lower than actual values
-see my post above
__________________
2013 Passat TDI SE+NAV 48MPG
2001 Honda civic 40MPG
1985 VW idi 1.6 Golf 55MPG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo-YUR1_DaU
1996 Dodge mechanical Cummins 12V 2500 4x4 that gets 20MPG
1990 Toyota xcab 4x4 3.0 v6 (3.slow) 15MPG
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July 2nd, 2017, 04:57
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#12
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Southern Tier NY
Fuel Economy: 27 - 32 mpg
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Just an aside...
Bought a '13 SEL Premium for a bit over $28k out the door on 4/15/13. VW will buy back this Thursday for just slightly less than $30k. Tell me I didn't hit the lottery!
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July 6th, 2017, 09:25
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#13
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Good Ol' Boy TDIClub Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Springfield, VA
Fuel Economy: see signature
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These vehicles are very difficult to valuate right now due to the buyback, restitution payments on salvage title vehicles, and the general frenzy surrounding TDIs.
Initially, values were in the tank because nobody would touch them with a 10-foot pole. After VW announced the buybacks, their values crept up steadily as people were buying them at auction and from salvage yards to turn around and flip back to VW. We're still seeing those lingering highs due to the settlement, combined with generally high demand for whatever leftover TDIs are still on the market.
KBB isn't really stupid - just caught in the middle of a very unusual and unprecedented time in automotive history. I think diesel pickup trucks will experience similar market fluctuations over the next few years.
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July 7th, 2017, 13:01
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#14
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The user formerly known as mickey
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Utah
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What KBB says and what the real world says are two different things. The industry expects VW to take a HUGE hit on TDI lease returns because they expect the resale value to be horrible, due to the scandal.
This is an unprecedented situation and I don't think there is any way to determine the value of a "cheater" TDI unless you actually sell it.
-mickey
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July 10th, 2017, 08:39
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#15
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Mickey
This is an unprecedented situation and I don't think there is any way to determine the value of a "cheater" TDI unless you actually sell it.
-mickey
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Insurance will know, and it will be wayyyyyy under that KBB value. If anyone is willing to under cut values it'll be the insurance value on a totaled car.
__________________
Hers: 2015 Passat SEL (NOS) w/ VW fix and Malone Stage 2.
His: 2017 Alltrack SE, waiting for TSI to TDI conversion kits to be released.
Bought back 2010 Sedan, cog swapper, build date 07/09, BB 6/7/16. 2012 Passat, Roof+Nav, build date 05/12, BB 7/11
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