AFN Audi B5 S4 Swap

K1Cowboy · May 12, 2014

Well everyone, it's official. I took the plunge today and ordered a total AFN swap for my B5 Audi S4. Frans is hooking me up with all the goodies. Money is sent, just waiting on the shipment.

Here is the recipient:
2000 Audi S4 6MT, 199,756 mi. Good strong motor with a stg. 1 tune, a slight turbo whine when cold. Good strong 01E tranny, rebuilt at 130k. I almost just put a new 6th gear in it but none available at the moment and I wanted the stronger TDI 01E.

Thanks to everyone that helped me with questions I had on what parts to use and to others who have posted about similar builds.

Stay tuned for more, this will be a dedicated build.

onlyn8v · May 13, 2014

Sounds like fun. Ive been working on my ALH to 2.8 A4 for a little bit. Im hoping to have it driveable by summer

K1Cowboy · May 13, 2014

Man I almost did the ALH route, saw several similar builds that got started here and just petered out. I was searching for many donor ALH cars around me for months and they were all run into the ground. I decided to do the AFN because I need the tranny from Europe, and to throw an AFN motor and accessories into the crate wasn't much more than the cost of an ALH. I do like the ALH route because of the parts availability though.

K1Cowboy · Jul 28, 2014

So after waiting awhile, my AFN swap arrived, well most of it. Frans told me he is shipping me the rest of the parts in a separate shipment. But from what I have here all that I can say is I'm pretty damn happy. The pallet was very well protected. Stupid Fedex wouldn't deliver the pallet to my house because they said they couldn't get the semi in my neighborhood. I had to drive 45 min to the airport with a U-Haul trailer to get it. I've been waiting about 2 1/2 months for this to arrive. Frans said his company was moving locations and that added some delay. Anyway, Frans delivered the goods.

I would recommend him to anyone needing parts.

So I'm trying to order some parts to do the maintenance on the engine before I drop it in. I'm pulling my hair out googling part numbers. The water pump seems to be a Europe item only. I have a couple of questions:

As far as the timing belt goes, does anyone know if I can use an AHU belt kit that I can get stateside? I don't know the exact production date of this engine either.

The rear main seal is part number 028 103 171, when i google it it comes up with 028 103 171B, which looks a little wider. Not sure if it's an updated part or what but it seems to fit the 1.8T.

I'm mating a FQF 01E tranny from a V6 TDI to this engine. What input shaft bearing should I be using?

The oil pan is steel and doesn't have the oil level/temp sender in the pan. I think I can swap the pan for a 1.8t longitudinal pan to make it work?

GTiTDi · Jul 28, 2014

timing belt kit for AHU should be the same, the rear main seal for a 1Z/AHU is 068 103 171F and fits nearly every VW/Audi up to the engine redesign, from what I can tell the part number you posted is for an ABA 2.slow...
look for an oil pan from an AEB engine code..part number 058 103 598E , the correlating sensor o-ring is 038 103 196, and the water pump from the same engine should work too, part number 026 121 005L

K1Cowboy · Jul 28, 2014

wow, thanks for the quick reply. The part number I listed for the rear main is just what i read off the part on the engine, but it looks similar to the part number you gave me. That oil pan looks like it will work! As for the water pump, my AFN pump is much smaller than the 026 121 005L. Here is the 026 121 005L:

Here is my AFN pump 028 121 019A

FlyingFin · Jul 28, 2014

Hi...

If there is anything you require over this side i don't mind trying to source it for you.. Paypal would be a preferred option for any payment unless you deal with the companies direct......

(and no I am not trying to make any money or trade on the forum!)

I know what it is like trying to source parts in a different country and don't know the places where to look...

I am recovering from a broken ankle/foot so I could do with something to occupy my many hours of spare time!!

If there is anything I can do please ask...

FF.

K1Cowboy · Jul 28, 2014

Hey thanks a lot FlyingFin I appreciate that. I'll extend you the same, let me know if you need something from the USA.

GTiTDi · Jul 29, 2014

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that's an odd duck

...wonder why they found it necessary to use a totally different water pump..can you send a pic of the housing it attaches to as well?

K1Cowboy · Jul 29, 2014

After several hours of searching I found an Airtex AW9335 Water pump from rock auto. It looks the same as mine and it was located in the US so I ordered it. Not really a fan of the brand but at least its easy to get to if it craps out. I'll post some pics of the block where it attaches when I get the timing belt off.

K1Cowboy · Jul 29, 2014

Here is where the water pump mounts, didn't even have to take off the TB cover.

annieneff · Jul 29, 2014

What year is that afn? I've got 3 from Frans and none have had a water pump like that. I think yours is all new and fancy and stuff. Get the year make and model that the engine came from, from him. It'll make ordering stuff easier.

FF: does your offer extend to all the folks with euro stuff under the hood over here

? I have a long list of folks who'd like to order from Brickwerks, and get their hands on some hydraulic motor mounts...

Keep us updated on the swap! Looks/sounds like a very simple and powerful upgrade. Hope you took Frans up on his offer to chip the afn for you. It's worth every €

.

Andrew

K1Cowboy · Jul 29, 2014

Thanks, I'll have to get the info from Frans. He said he could chip the ECU but I'm not sure if we ever agreed to having it done, though I definitely want to have it tuned. We sent so many emails to each other over the course of several weeks I was only really concerned in the important matters. I do know that he is having the IMMO defeated so I won't have to worry with that part.

annieneff · Jul 29, 2014

K1Cowboy said:
Thanks, I'll have to get the info from Frans. He said he could chip the ECU but I'm not sure if we ever agreed to having it done, though I definitely want to have it tuned. We sent so many emails to each other over the course of several weeks I was only really concerned in the important matters. I do know that he is having the IMMO defeated so I won't have to worry with that part.

Those immo's are always putting up a fight. Good thing he's helping you defeat it! Always helps to have a Dutch friend in these endeavors.

I ordered one w/out the chip/tune and it'll haunt me for the rest of my life even though I don't own it any more. If you don't know the difference though, just having an afn will be awesome.
Anyway, worry about the swap first and the tune stuff later.
Let us/me know about the year and make when you do!

K1Cowboy · Jul 29, 2014

So while waiting for all my parts I was bored and decided to refinish all 4 wheels on the car. I tried Duplicolor silver at first and it had WAY to much silver flake in it so I decided to go with 1Z Silber spray from the motherland. I think they turned out nice.
Before:

about an hour of sanding per wheel (not shown)
Primer

Silber Spray

I used "TOLD" cards, (they are cards used by pilots for takeoff data), you can use 3x5 notecards as well, to cover the tires.

The final result after a few coats of clear:

More car porn:

K1Cowboy · Jul 29, 2014

annieneff said:
Those immo's are always putting up a fight. Good thing he's helping you defeat it! Always helps to have a Dutch friend in these endeavors.

I ordered one w/out the chip/tune and it'll haunt me for the rest of my life even though I don't own it any more. If you don't know the difference though, just having an afn will be awesome.
Anyway, worry about the swap first and the tune stuff later.
Let us/me know about the year and make when you do!

I wasn't to worried about the tune, I want to just get this thing in the car and running, then upgrade the turbo and injectors with a tune after that. I might have been satisfied with just the tune but knowing myself I would want more and the tune alone would have been wasted money.

K1Cowboy · Jul 29, 2014

The tranny got a good power washing today and I shot the rusty cast iron mid section with some BBQ black paint after an Ospho bath. I didn't want to go nuts and paint the rest of it with aluminum paint, nobody is really gonna see it anyway. It's not as good looking as Scott Dewitt's productions but I hope it will perform about the same.

JFettig · Aug 5, 2014

Longitudinal AFN water pump and accessory brackets sure are goofy compared to the transverse setup. I ordered my first water pump from rock auto, it was pretty much garbage but I used it for a while, got my 2nd from RyanP along with the timing belt kit. You can run AHH timing components on that motor, or regular AHU transverse timing components if you want.

K1Cowboy · Aug 5, 2014

Thanks JFettig. I actually stumbled across your B5 AHH thread and found a lot if useful part numbers. Our engines look pretty much identical. I ordered an AHU timing belt kit from diesel geek, And I got a 1z/AHU rear main seal as well. Looks like almost everything for the engine can be sourced in the US.

JFettig · Aug 6, 2014

Water pump and accessory belt tensioner cannot.

K1Cowboy · Aug 9, 2014

I changed the oil pan to an AEB 1.8t oil pan so I can use the low oil/oil temp sender in the pan.(thanks GTiTDi) The steel pan bolts are too short though

. I'm hoping I can pull some bolts out of the gasser pan, I got it installed with just a few longer bolts I had laying around for now.

I also installed a 1Z/ AHU rear main,(thanks GTiTDi) it was much different than mine, It doesn't have a spring retainer to keep the oil seal tight against the crank but it fit right on . It also has a felt dust seal on the outside which mine did not.
Here is the Airtex water pump from rock auto, sourced in the USA.

I made a trip to the junkyard and picked up this 1.8T radiator mount. I also bought a new 1.8t radiator from rock auto, My rad and mount are different and have the lower hose attachment on the opposite side of the top rad hose.

Also from the junkyard I scored both 1.8t power steering hoses off the rack, as they are different then my V6 ones.

I'm still waiting for Frans to ship me a new flywheel and clutch kit, starter, ECU, gas pedal, and engine cover. ****EDIT*** Fedex lost my second shipment so Frans shipped me a new one! It will be here tomorrow.

K1Cowboy · Aug 19, 2014

Ok, so the rest of my parts arrived today from Frans. I tried to bolt up the starter I got with the swap to the 01E transmission and it won't even go in the hole. The ring gear is so big on the 240mm DMF that the starter won't fit. It's also pretty damn long, it seems like it's gonna interfere with the turbo support bracket and the A/C lines. The starter I got is a 068 911 024G. I'm assuming its for the 228mm flywheel. I did some searching and maybe a 068 911 024H or a 03G 911 023 might do the trick. Here is the starter I have:

Also, after the ECU came today, I just realized that I have a 68 pin TDI harness and ECU, compared to my 121 pin B5 S4 ECU. This engine must have come from an earlier model car.

Also as promised, I all got the TDI gas pedal. It's much earlier and bulkier than the drive by wire in my 2000. I think I'm gonna try and find a B5.5 BHW throttle pedal instead.

Ifixit · Aug 28, 2014

A4 B5 afn TDI all used 68 pin I believe
a4 b5 gassers use 121 pin

My afn ecu is 028 906 021 EK

JFettig · Aug 28, 2014

I'm using a 121pin mk4 golf ecu in my b5 now. Works flawlessly. Requires a custom harness. I modified the golf harness.

OBD flashing and other tuning goodness!

Scott_DeWitt · Aug 28, 2014

annieneff said:
What year is that afn? I've got 3 from Frans and none have had a water pump like that. I think yours is all new and fancy and stuff. Get the year make and model that the engine came from, from him. It'll make ordering stuff easier.

The longitudinal AFN, and AVG had pumps like that. They are not the same as the transverse pumps or the 1.8t stuff.

Scott_DeWitt · Aug 28, 2014

K1Cowboy said:
Ok, so the rest of my parts arrived today from Frans. I tried to bolt up the starter I got with the swap to the 01E transmission and it won't even go in the hole. The ring gear is so big on the 240mm DMF that the starter won't fit. It's also pretty damn long, it seems like it's gonna interfere with the turbo support bracket and the A/C lines.

240mm flywheels require a much longer starter that interferes with the A/C compressor and the engine mount. Why did you go with a 240mm? The 228 flywheel has clutch packages that can handle up to 500 ft/lbs.

K1Cowboy said:
It's not as good looking as Scott Dewitt's productions but I hope it will perform about the same.

If you didn't update it then probably not.

K1Cowboy · Aug 28, 2014

Scott_DeWitt said:
240mm flywheels require a much longer starter that interferes with the A/C compressor and the engine mount. Why did you go with a 240mm? The 228 flywheel has clutch packages that can handle up to 500 ft/lbs.

I went with the 240mm flywheel because the oem clutch is much cheaper than a bad ass 228mm clutch package.

K1Cowboy · Aug 28, 2014

So here's an update. I got the motor out. Took 6 hrs. total PITA. I'm sure glad it's not going back in.

Got the TDI put into place

Did a little pumpectomy. I didn't want to trust that pump with 205K

Now the exhaust work. I had twin downpipes off the V6. It turns out one of the pipes matched up exactly to the catback. I just cut the other one off and then cut a pipe to fit them both together.

I used a BHW throttle pedal off a B5.5 passat. It plugged right into the old pedal and wired up with no codes and everything looks good on the VAG COM.

I had to order a glow plug relay, waiting on that.

I'm still waiting on Frans to send me the correct starter. I also bent the shifter rod pulling the motor out. When i put it all back together the shifter was all out of wack. As soon as I get those parts it should be downhill from there. Most of the wiring is complete but i need to have the car running and driving to finish it.

Scott_DeWitt · Aug 29, 2014

Did you use the appropriate engine to trans shim plate?

K1Cowboy · Aug 29, 2014

Scott_DeWitt said:
Did you use the appropriate engine to trans shim plate?

Yeah the spacer is in there, I checked the pilot bearing to input shaft clearance and it's good. I had to add longer dowel pins as well.

AFN Audi B5 S4 Swap

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