sprint 520's VS PowerPlus 520's

Quick update. I drop the VagCom number to it's minimum of 32645 which raised my IQ from 5.4/5.6 to 6.0/6.2. Smoke is down and so is power. The power drop is a good thing, as I was a little worried about the 01M tranny handling the increased torque from the Sprint 520s. Haven't noticed any significant issues yet, maybe a tiny bit of slow down shudder once ina great while, but I may just be looking for that out of paranoia.

sdeck said:

Quick update. I drop the VagCom number to it's minimum of 32645 which raised my IQ from 5.4/5.6 to 6.0/6.2. Smoke is down and so is power. The power drop is a good thing, as I was a little worried about the 01M tranny handling the increased torque from the Sprint 520s. Haven't noticed any significant issues yet, maybe a tiny bit of slow down shudder once ina great while, but I may just be looking for that out of paranoia.

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At least you are in the ballpark, you can fine-tune the IQ until you find the perfect setting with the best power and the least smoke.

well I have a MT (87k), Is it less stressfull to use sprints with a tuning map & VNT 15 vs. pp520's, tune, and VNT 15? can I achive the same numbers after the fact with a tune on sprint 520's?

I've done this: Sprints gave me 129/260 and PP520s gave 134/270. The problem is the PPs also give a lot more smoke and EGTs. If you have some improvements in breathing (intake and exhaust) that will help. But the VNT-15 is the major limitation and you'll never completely get the smoke out with the PP520s.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I've done this: Sprints gave me 129/260 and PP520s gave 134/270. The problem is the PPs also give a lot more smoke and EGTs. If you have some improvements in breathing (intake and exhaust) that will help. But the VNT-15 is the major limitation and you'll never completely get the smoke out with the PP520s.

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134/270 is that wheel hp or crank ,
and with chip or without

At the wheels, with RC3. Same tune with both sets of nozzles. Lift pump, OMI, 2.5" exhaust (cat back). That was probably about it at that point.

just was wondering as im hoping for about 150+ (flywheel) from my pp520s alligator tune and racepipe on my 110 , then a bit more power with the exhaust

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I've done this: Sprints gave me 129/260 and PP520s gave 134/270. The problem is the PPs also give a lot more smoke and EGTs. If you have some improvements in breathing (intake and exhaust) that will help. But the VNT-15 is the major limitation and you'll never completely get the smoke out with the PP520s.

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have you upgraded your clutch indigo? If I get sprints and a tune can I go without a clutch upgrade? I know one is ideal but is it nessecary?

Have I? I'm on my 4th clutch. Stock went 100K until the PP520s went in. Then I ran a G60/VR6 for 70K until I upgraded my turbo. Tried a new LUK replacement, no go, so now I'm running a SBC Stage 3 with the OE Sachs dual mass flywheel. Easy to drive, no slip ever.

Upgrading the clutch depends on the condition of your stock clutch, number of miles, and the rest of your setup. And you'll find it'll be more prone to slipping when the weather gets cooler.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Have I? I'm on my 4th clutch. Stock went 100K until the PP520s went in. Then I ran a G60/VR6 for 70K until I upgraded my turbo. Tried a new LUK replacement, no go, so now I'm running a SBC Stage 3 with the OE Sachs dual mass flywheel. Easy to drive, no slip ever.

Upgrading the clutch depends on the condition of your stock clutch, number of miles, and the rest of your setup. And you'll find it'll be more prone to slipping when the weather gets cooler.

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lol, 3? well I have 88k and I am pretty sure its the original clutch. Its a 02 jetta 5spd. I have heard that the stock clutch will only handle 200lbs of tourqe before it starts tearing itself apart. Is that true? I would like to have nozzles and a tune and hold off a bit on the clutch... or maybe i should just do all three at once lol!

Nozzles are fine. Tune is fine. Both--you've got a problem. The stock clutch is good for about 250 torque at the crank but a strong tune will put you at about 220 wheels--close to the limit. Most people with just a strong tune can get their clutch to slip on cold days.

I've dialed back on fueling and am now making about 155/260 at the wheels, so it's nice not to worry about the clutch at all. With the PP502s I was making 173/300.

So from reading all the posts, and thinking about it all I am getting the feeling that this is the consensus on sprints vs. PP:

Sprints are good if you plan to use a tune and clutch upgrade but that is pretty much what you are limited too

PP's are good if you plan to go beyond just a tune and clutch.

PP520's will smoke more than the sprints and without upgrading the turbo with fuel maps you wont ever get the smoke out (also on that note consistant smoke would mean; please correct me if I'm wrong; more carbon build up in the turbo and eventual turbo failure.) However the pp520's are a foundation for more upgrades in the future

At this point I dont know if I will ever be able to upgrade my turbo, I currently have 89k. the clutch would be next after the nozzles but would have to wait a while, then I want a tune. Realistic time frame of a turbo is not until at least 2 years. so I am looking at adding a turbo at 129k or so- is that feasible? i know the engines go for a long time but there is so much more involved than that (shocks, struts, wheel bearings, probably new half shafts with the added power)

So will I be missing out by getting sprints a tune and a clutch over PP520's a tune and a clutch?

well my 110 has the sprints or 0.205 from stock and i upgraded to the pp520s with tune which is a mild upgrade and was astounded by the difference in tourque and can really recomend them , and no theres not that much smoke, yes theres a quick burst of it as you hit peak tourque at w.o.t but nothing dramatic trust me its well worth the extra for the pp's or thats mt 2 pence worth anyway

cog said:

well my 110 has the sprints or 0.205 from stock and i upgraded to the pp520s with tune which is a mild upgrade and was astounded by the difference in tourque and can really recomend them , and no theres not that much smoke, yes theres a quick burst of it as you hit peak tourque at w.o.t but nothing dramatic trust me its well worth the extra for the pp's or thats mt 2 pence worth anyway

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what clutch and flywheel are you running with that tune?

i have a kerma tune with stock clutch at the moment which was a very noticeable difference from my tunning box , the clutch started slipping badly after the first week ive ordered an upgraded vr6 clutch that handles 325lbsft rather than the standard sachs 290lbfts , although strangely enough the clutch has stopped slipping for the moment i dont know why the power is certainly still there although is still strong very clutch burning smells when i get out the car

i have the pp520's with an auto trans. i get smoke under wot. i don't remember if an iq was done when installed, when i get back to jason again we will look into it. mileage is about the same unless my wife drives then it improves. she stays OFF the turbo. no seduction for her.

Joe TDI said:

No sacrifice in mileage at all... My MPG's have stayed exactly the same even after Sprint 520's and RocketChip Stage III.... Of course I try to drive economically, but it's hard to do with all that torque....even so no drop in mileage at all, even when driving hard. Thats the beauty of TDI's, more power, same or better mileage.

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I have a stock turbo and a RocketChip Stage III. Can i just install the Sprint 520's or does it have to be retuned? Do they need to be balanced? What about using performance diesel injector nozzles instead?

RedTDIowner said:

I have a stock turbo and a RocketChip Stage III. Can i just install the Sprint 520's or does it have to be retuned? Do they need to be balanced? What about using performance diesel injector nozzles instead?

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You can install them. Balance if you want. I take it you're a manual TDI.

If it smokes very badly, then you'd need a tune. A tune would just mess a little bit with duration, maybe turbo boost, and start of injection if needed to reduce smoke, and regain some partial throttle mpg. For maximum power, the same fueling settings will remain. So fine tuning is all that will be done really.

If I remember correctly RC3 gives you up to 18.5 psi out of the VNT-15. There's not much more to be done about air from the tune. Fueling is probably up to the maximum the 10mm pump can handle, ~50mg.



Also fun fact, my clutch disc disintegrated the NEXT DAY after installing PP520's on my stock car. It was probably tired anyways though. Gave it a quick death. Although in it's death, it still managed to get me home 30 miles away without clutch pedal working at all.

I installed sprint 520 nozzles this past weekend, smoked under WOT only & a little during cold start, the engine sounds healthier with a new tank pump. I also installed a boost gauge and keep my boost below 5 psi on the highway commuting 130 miles round trip daily. The car burns out from a stop at WOT you can feel a big difference compared to the stock nozzles. As far as mileage, this is my first week driving with them in and I have squeezed 400 miles to half a tank so far, but I don't want to judge better economy yet until friday night when I get home. I will report back with results. A lot of people said the sprint 520's are too much for the o1m, but well find out how long mine will last because I don't like to abuse my daily car since I own a 500hp mach-1 that gets abused on the weekends.

Enabled said:

You can install them. Balance if you want. I take it you're a manual TDI.

If it smokes very badly, then you'd need a tune. A tune would just mess a little bit with duration, maybe turbo boost, and start of injection if needed to reduce smoke, and regain some partial throttle mpg. For maximum power, the same fueling settings will remain. So fine tuning is all that will be done really.

If I remember correctly RC3 gives you up to 18.5 psi out of the VNT-15. There's not much more to be done about air from the tune. Fueling is probably up to the maximum the 10mm pump can handle, ~50mg.

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Yes mine is a manual tranny. Would it hurt it if I installed them without retuning? When my original 10 mm injection pump died I replaced it with an 11 mm.

VW_TDi_ said:

I installed sprint 520 nozzles this past weekend, smoked under WOT only & a little during cold start, the engine sounds healthier with a new tank pump. I also installed a boost gauge and keep my boost below 5 psi on the highway commuting 130 miles round trip daily. The car burns out from a stop at WOT you can feel a big difference compared to the stock nozzles. As far as mileage, this is my first week driving with them in and I have squeezed 400 miles to half a tank so far, but I don't want to judge better economy yet until friday night when I get home. I will report back with results. A lot of people said the sprint 520's are too much for the o1m, but well find out how long mine will last

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What is the o1m?

RedTDIowner said:

Yes mine is a manual tranny. Would it hurt it if I installed them without retuning? When my original 10 mm injection pump died I replaced it with an 11 mm.

What is the o1m?

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No it would not hurt at all. Your 11mm pump would be best if it were tuned for that, however.

The o1m is the automatic transmission of that era.

I know this is an old (original) thread and I have a B4 (horrible air flow and WG turbo), but since the injectors are the same I thought I'd post my dyno numbers:

Stock AHU engine with 292,000 miles on it.....72hp/142 torque
Added Sprint injectors..................................84 hp/164 torque (installed by Diesel Fuel Systems)
Switched to PP520 injectors (at 361K)............102hp/183 torque (installed and balanced by DBW)
Added RC3+ tune........................................120hp/228 torque

I have been happy with the PP520's and they definitely produce more power (and smoke/EGT's) than the Sprints.

Abacus said:

I know this is an old (original) thread and I have a B4 (horrible air flow and WG turbo), but since the injectors are the same I thought I'd post my dyno numbers:

Stock AHU engine with 292,000 miles on it.....72hp/142 torque
Added Sprint injectors..................................84 hp/164 torque (installed by Diesel Fuel Systems)
Switched to PP520 injectors (at 361K)............102hp/183 torque (installed and balanced by DBW)
Added RC3+ tune........................................120hp/228 torque

I have been happy with the PP520's and they definitely produce more power (and smoke/EGT's) than the Sprints.

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Excellent numbers at the wheels I take it.

For the Passat like yours, you actually have to change the chip out right? I was looking into getting a B4V, but I didn't think it would be as easy to tune as the newer ones flashing through OBD2 port. I'd be comfortable enough tuning it myself, as I understand the process real well now, but burning my own chips makes it a little more difficult.

Well, there is equipment for burning chips for under $100, that's not THAT bad. I'd just need a bunch of chips for trial and error, and convert the ECU to plug in chips.

Abacus said:

I know this is an old (original) thread and I have a B4 (horrible air flow and WG turbo), but since the injectors are the same I thought I'd post my dyno numbers:

Stock AHU engine with 292,000 miles on it.....72hp/142 torque
Added Sprint injectors..................................84 hp/164 torque (installed by Diesel Fuel Systems)
Switched to PP520 injectors (at 361K)............102hp/183 torque (installed and balanced by DBW)
Added RC3+ tune........................................120hp/228 torque

I have been happy with the PP520's and they definitely produce more power (and smoke/EGT's) than the Sprints.

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What kind of a difference in milage did you notice between them?

Before the tune I lost 2-3 mpg but after the tune it went back up. I'm still in the 50 mpg area, some above and some below.

I went from 565-580 average full tank to 629 before i exited the highway and filled up again. The sprint 520's helped my mileage slightly. I have never gone over 600 with the stock nozzles.