power enhancements/adders that do not increase fuel consumption

Buckwild90 · Oct 21, 2014

Hi, i recently purchased a 2013 golf tdi with dsg(no sticks on the lots here). i put about 5000 miles a month on my car, just crossed the 14000 mark. after my 36000 mark warranty is up i intended to do a 3" straight pipe 321 stainless exhaust from the turbo back (union pipefitter and sheet metal worker, i can build almost anything from metal) as well as a malone stage 2 tune with the dsg and econo tune. i know i will get a good mpg bump as well as power bump with that alone, but i was wondering what other modifications to this car will improve both fuel mileage and power, or at least power without decreasing fuel mileage. i spend over half those 5000 miles a month idleing at 25-2600 in 6th at 80mph on the freeway avg 42. im new to the tdi game, ive always toyed with honda d-motors up until this point, and after numerous readings of car and drivers approval i decided vw was ahead honda by far in small engine high power game, as well as the german build a far better car than american car manufacturers, and give quite a plush interior for the $$$$$. all around vw is kicking everyones ass in the automotive world, always loved porches, and audi is kicking ass with the larger tdi motors from my research. its just phenominal. so guys all answers everything from bolt-ons to serious motor work are welcome. ive considered water/meth injection to get me up to the 250hp 400lbs trq mark, but im starting to steer away from it because of the amt of methanol i will go throught every month running it constatnly. i do all my own maintenance, even wiggled out of the 2800$$ maint contract from vw when i bought the car. SO ENLIGHTEN ME BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

40X40 · Oct 21, 2014

One peculiarity of diesel cars is that performance mods only penalize your fuel economy when you actually use the extra power. Gasser cars don't do this.... (edit, using small displacement TURBOCHARGED gas engines for both fuel efficiency and power is becoming much more commonplace. This mimics the attributes of a turbo diesel.)

If you drive your car the same after the mods as you did before them, you will see little difference in your fuel economy. If you are like the usual TDI modder, you will initially use the new power and lose a bit of fuel economy but will soon remember how to drive for efficiency.

Good Luck!

Bill

Dirtracr95 · Oct 21, 2014

Buckwild90 said:
Hi, i recently purchased a 2013 golf tdi with dsg(no sticks on the lots here). i put about 5000 miles a month on my car, just crossed the 14000 mark. after my 36000 mark warranty is up i intended to do a 3" straight pipe 321 stainless exhaust from the turbo back (union pipefitter and sheet metal worker, i can build almost anything from metal) as well as a malone stage 2 tune with the dsg and econo tune. i know i will get a good mpg bump as well as power bump with that alone, but i was wondering what other modifications to this car will improve both fuel mileage and power, or at least power without decreasing fuel mileage. i spend over half those 5000 miles a month idleing at 25-2600 in 6th at 80mph on the freeway avg 42. im new to the tdi game, ive always toyed with honda d-motors up until this point, and after numerous readings of car and drivers approval i decided vw was ahead honda by far in small engine high power game, as well as the german build a far better car than american car manufacturers, and give quite a plush interior for the $$$$$. all around vw is kicking everyones ass in the automotive world, always loved porches, and audi is kicking ass with the larger tdi motors from my research. its just phenominal. so guys all answers everything from bolt-ons to serious motor work are welcome. ive considered water/meth injection to get me up to the 250hp 400lbs trq mark, but im starting to steer away from it because of the amt of methanol i will go throught every month running it constatnly. i do all my own maintenance, even wiggled out of the 2800$$ maint contract from vw when i bought the car. SO ENLIGHTEN ME BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

Max mpg meth kit.

No matter what you will be no where near 250hp 400tq on stock turbo.

Buckwild90 · Oct 21, 2014

well i know i will get a 10-15% jump in mpg from freeing up the exhaust. all other gains in that arena are just hopeful with slow driving. im just wondering if things like head porting, different cams, lighter engine components, less reciperocating mass overall will improve efficiency. from what ive read with the new ea288 engines, even with larger injectors, the car better fuel consumption and makes more power, although im sure that has a lot to do with the intercooler in the intake. thanks for your response. truthfully i get all the way in this car about once or twice a week, but other wise i cruise 55-75 mph.

Buckwild90 · Oct 21, 2014

Dirtracr95 said:
Max mpg meth kit.
No matter what you will be no where near 250hp 400tq on stock turbo.

i see most guys with the stage 2 malone and straight pipe exhausts pushing
190hp 310ft lbs trq, im not sure if those are flywheel or at wheel numbers,but really if i could get 225hp and 350ft lbs to the wheels, id be a happy camper for sure. im guess with the addition of the water meth and a retune by malone for the addition of it, or at least they know it to be a variable in the equation of the tune, i can get another 30 hp and 60 ft lbs trq when spraying both nozzles.

what turbo would you recommend i upgrade too? and will i need to modify the pipe running from the exhausts port to the new turbo?

and if anyone knows anything about stroker cranks to increase displacement, as well as changing pistons to increase compression, im open to all ideas. once this engine goes past 120000 miles, i might do an overhaul, and that would be the time to change things like this.

CourierGuy · Oct 22, 2014

I slapped all my listed goodies below in one shot, last winter. My fuel mileage is the same PREmods.

Well, if I pay attention to the right foot. But even at that... beating on it... nets me a minor drop on mileage. All things considered.. "fun" factor for a few points = WORTH IT.

The alh is a dog unmolested. Spruce it up, it's a freaking blast. Pleasant. Get dirty looks and looks of awe and amazement from others who say "a diesel??"

Makes the expenditures a non regret every time.

joseluis.17g · Oct 22, 2014

not a power adder but it is a perfromance enhacer

Weigth reduction, change the spare tire for a spacer saver etc etc

Dirtracr95 · Oct 22, 2014

Buckwild90 said:
i see most guys with the stage 2 malone and straight pipe exhausts pushing
190hp 310ft lbs trq, im not sure if those are flywheel or at wheel numbers,but really if i could get 225hp and 350ft lbs to the wheels, id be a happy camper for sure. im guess with the addition of the water meth and a retune by malone for the addition of it, or at least they know it to be a variable in the equation of the tune, i can get another 30 hp and 60 ft lbs trq when spraying both nozzles.
what turbo would you recommend i upgrade too? and will i need to modify the pipe running from the exhausts port to the new turbo?
and if anyone knows anything about stroker cranks to increase displacement, as well as changing pistons to increase compression, im open to all ideas. once this engine goes past 120000 miles, i might do an overhaul, and that would be the time to change things like this.

Where are you seeing these numbers?

Buckwild90 · Oct 22, 2014

Dirtracr95 said:
Where are you seeing these numbers?

the ones from the malone stg 2 stock exhaust delete or the numbers from the water meth kits?

20IndigoBlue02 · Oct 22, 2014

40X40 said:
One peculiarity of diesel cars is that performance mods only penalize your fuel economy when you actually use the extra power. Gasser cars don't do this....

If you drive your car the same after the mods as you did before them, you will see little difference in your fuel economy. If you are like the usual TDI modder, you will initially use the new power and lose a bit of fuel economy but will soon remember how to drive for efficiency.

Good Luck!

Bill

My slightly modded 2.0T gasser (ie...downpipe + ECU program) has no fuel economy penalty when I don't actually use the extra power.

CNGVW · Oct 22, 2014

I am working on a kit for TDIs: My work with CNG, and fuel-added systems, gives me lots of 'hands-on' [experience] with this [technology].

I have designed a small, bolt-on system that will add methane (CNG) gas, [in combination] with an added O3 generator array up stream.

We will use small bottles of Methane that can be replaced off-the-self, or refilled.

Just before entering the combustion chamber, we will electronically bond the two compounds to help burn the diesel cleaner and longer in the compressing stroke. [during the power stroke]

We are going to do a Kickstarter for it to see if there is a need for a system like this in the diesel world.

Bob Mann

Buckwild90 · Oct 24, 2014

CNGVW said:
I am working on a kit for TDIs: My work with CNG, and fuel-added systems, gives me lots of 'hands-on' [experience] with this [technology].

I have designed a small, bolt-on system that will add methane (CNG) gas, [in combination] with an added O3 generator array up stream.

We will use small bottles of Methane that can be replaced off-the-self, or refilled.

Just before entering the combustion chamber, we will electronically bond the two compounds to help burn the diesel cleaner and longer in the compressing stroke. [during the power stroke]

We are going to do a Kickstarter for it to see if there is a need for a system like this in the diesel world.

Bob Mann

that sounds really interesting. ive done quite a bit of reading on cng conversions, from what i gathered cng only has 74% of the energy of diesel, per gallon based on btus. there is only one place that sells lng and lpg in large quantities at an actual fuel station. the pricing is equal to the energy content provided by diesel. so you dont save any money. diesel is like 3.26 a gal where im at 3.4-3.60 anywhere in the tristate area. however im very interested in this new technology your workin on and would love to know more

CNGVW · Oct 25, 2014

Buckwild90 said:
that sounds really interesting. ive done quite a bit of reading on cng conversions, from what i gathered cng only has 74% of the energy of diesel, per gallon based on btus. there is only one place that sells lng and lpg in large quantities at an actual fuel station. the pricing is equal to the energy content provided by diesel. so you dont save any money. diesel is like 3.26 a gal where im at 3.4-3.60 anywhere in the tristate area. however im very interested in this new technology your workin on and would love to know more

Thank you for your interest trying to find good information on this subject is like trying to pan for gold in your back yard . Most of the time you find rocks.

With the cost of gasoline at $3.00 and below and diesel at the $3.40 mark in the USA now for CNG Natural Gas this will slow down on its use as a fuel for us. This will be short term.

If we were to base all our power from the btus of a subtenant we would run ever thing on coal.

I am dynoing next week a 2006 Ford Power stroke we have been testing a new computer controlled CNG Duel Fuel injection system this summer.

We have gone from 16 MPG on diesel to 32 MPG using a CNG controlled blend. We are now at a 60 CNG -40 Diesel split of fuel usage . And we drive it ever day.
Bob Mann

roadlust · Oct 25, 2014

Is the 32mpg just diesel consumption or a combination of diesel and natural gas?

CNGVW · Oct 25, 2014

How it works is we got 16 miles to one gallon of diesel with the engine running stock.
With the CNG blend we get 32 miles to the same gallon of diesel but add some CNG to replace the diesel usage. There is still a cost for the CNG fuel it is a lot cheaper then the diesel. We are at about at the point of cutting our fuel costs per mile in half.

What we have learned is the engine is a lot quieter on the blend, much cleaner out the pipe. If you have a DPF it would not need to do regenerates for a long time.
We can make more power if we need to like a truck that tows a lot by a simple software change.
I how that helps.
Bob Mann

octy900 · Oct 25, 2014

40x40 thats not always true. I was getting mid 40's /51mpg and now 49ish & 58mpg with heavy foot sometimes
have had cars in past that suffered due to mods/maps

moivw · Oct 25, 2014

you can mod and increase fuel efficiency if you pay attention to:
-choose a good tuner
-a turbo that spools soon enough
-do not put a too wide exhaust system, if you do so, do it close the engine, not the further the gazs go..
I only increased mileage going from 90 to 230hp, it also allows to use longer ratios... -weight of wheels/tires are also important.
-lower the ride
-..ad on of a few interesting recipes, including some "forbidden" in this forum
...)

Buckwild90 · Oct 25, 2014

CNGVW said:
Thank you for your interest trying to find good information on this subject is like trying to pan for gold in your back yard . Most of the time you find rocks.
With the cost of gasoline at $3.00 and below and diesel at the $3.40 mark in the USA now for CNG Natural Gas this will slow down on its use as a fuel for us. This will be short term.
If we were to base all our power from the btus of a subtenant we would run ever thing on coal.
I am dynoing next week a 2006 Ford Power stroke we have been testing a new computer controlled CNG Duel Fuel injection system this summer.
We have gone from 16 MPG on diesel to 32 MPG using a CNG controlled blend. We are now at a 60 CNG -40 Diesel split of fuel usage . And we drive it ever day.
Bob Mann

yes gas is 2.50 a gallon here, its really helpin ppls pocket books out for now. thank you for providing all that info. on a 60-40 split doublingthe mpg is amazing doing that in my tdi might net 80mpg or even more once i remove dpf. cng is def a whole lot cleaner way less carbon deposit on engine internals. i can see that cng is definetly completely burning the diesel off when added to it. what kind of power numbers are you getting on that powerstroke?

scrambld · Oct 25, 2014

CNGVW said:
We are going to do a Kickstarter for it to see if there is a need for a system like this in the diesel world.

Bob Mann

I'll be watching this. Do you need any vehicles to "experiment" on?...

40X40 · Oct 25, 2014

Don't forget to ask Dr. Volks how much CNG he uses to replace the gallons of D2 he 'saves'.

That part seems to get overlooked.....often. They are both FUELS and mileage calculations must include how much of each is being used.

Bill

Buckwild90 · Oct 25, 2014

moivw said:
you can mod and increase fuel efficiency if you pay attention to:
-choose a good tuner
-a turbo that spools soon enough
-do not put a too wide exhaust system, if you do so, do it close the engine, not the further the gazs go..
I only increased mileage going from 90 to 230hp, it also allows to use longer ratios... -weight of wheels/tires are also important.
-lower the ride
-..ad on of a few interesting recipes, including some "forbidden" in this forum
...)

well i intend to go through 3 inch exhaust, ive done a lot of research on the cfms of engine flow and 2.75 is enough but from what ive read having a turbo, there are no problems with back pressure, everything ive read from engineers review to backyard mechanics says dump that hot exhaust as fast as you can, the faster you dump it the faster the turbo can spool better overall for mpgs and hp and torque

BKmetz · Oct 26, 2014

O3? Ozone? Really?

I can't wait to hear the details on this one. Sounds like HHO (brown's gas) all over again.

CNGVW said:
I have designed a small, bolt-on system that will add methane (CNG) gas, [in combination] with an added O3 generator array up stream.

We will use small bottles of Methane that can be replaced off-the-self, or refilled.

Just before entering the combustion chamber, we will electronically bond the two compounds to help burn the diesel cleaner and longer in the compressing stroke. [during the power stroke]

Bob Mann

CNGVW · Oct 27, 2014

BKmetz please do not compare my skill and 15 years work with CNG and diesel blend systems and over 500,000 miles of use to HH2 or brown gas pie in the sky schemes.

Bob Mann

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