BAD LIFTER... why... why... why

amgad

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2000
Location
Marbella, Malaga, Spain
TDI
1998
AMAZING... just finished a 1200 km journey 600 km there and 600 km back two days after. After the first 600km I let the car sit for a night and the next time I start it... the initial "clack clack clack" noise until the lifters gain oil pressure... it gets lower but it doesnt disappear until 10 min or so, and the engine noise at idle is lowder.

I go to the dealer today...
BAD LIFTER... WHAT THE F***k the car has only 73000 km and always used mobil synthetic oil... treated it like gold always treat it well.

What kind of rubbish german engineering is this. They tell me since they cant identify which lifter it is... they much replace all 8. Total cost... around $300$
 

Oldman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 3, 2001
Location
Leander,TX,USA
I good mechanic can figure out which lifter is not pumping up. It is the one that has buku clearance! Plus you can hand pump lifters in a tub of oil. Sounds like BS to me. Sorry to hear about your lifter, but things happen.
 
M

mickey

Guest
Find a new friend. It's not hard to diagnose a bad lifter. If nothing else you can use a stethescope to narrow down the choices.

Any mechanical device is subject to failure. But I've never heard of a TDI lifter going bad before. You just have bad luck.

-mickey
 

amgad

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2000
Location
Marbella, Malaga, Spain
TDI
1998
Find a new friend... that funny
.

I'll see what I can do... in any case each liter is around 20$ so I might as well change them all since he is going to do the job. Thanks mick.
 

amgad

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2000
Location
Marbella, Malaga, Spain
TDI
1998
I was running the Repsol semi synthetic 10-40 oil which is forced to use by VW in spain until 24000km.

After that I switched to mobil 1 100% synthetic 5-50 for turbodiesel.

I change oil and filter every 8000-10000km
I warm up and cool down the car (I used to warm it up for about 3 min until I found out it is bad (due to low oil pressure).

What surprises me is that the noise started after a 600km ride non stop... left it for a night and bang, the clack clack started.

Last time I did the same journey, the same thing happend, the engine noise was slightly higher and it was after an oil change at the dealer... I though those ***-**** had not changed the oil and maybe it got degraded. I changed it for the same mobil 1 100% synthetic 5-50 for turbodiesel and the noise went. Could the same have happened again. Shall I change the oil???
 

VW Vet

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2000
Location
Maine
TDI
Golf GL TDI, 2001
amgad,
Don't do anything until you get a stethescope and check it out yourself.
My TDI has what sounds just like a lifter but it is #3 injector. I put the stethescope all over the engine and it is loud only when placed on injector #3. The dealer is going to replace it this Thursday. I am hoping this will fix it.
Since you have to pay for the repairs, to would be bad to start replacing things without knowing exactly which part is making the noise.
 
M

mickey

Guest
Good call! I think a bad injector is more likely than a bad lifter.

-mickey
 

amgad

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2000
Location
Marbella, Malaga, Spain
TDI
1998
Ok I'll mention this so they can keep it in mind... but I mean the nois is learly a "clat clat clat clat". anyway how much do injectors cost... is there a lot of work involved.??
 

2KTD'r

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2001
Location
NE,ohio
TDI
2003 TDI Wagon
I think I can top that. I had a new 97Jetta TDI and as I was driving it home for the first time, the lifter started to go tick,tick,tick that it eventually became a clack,clack,clack The Stealer said they "fixed it" but it still had the tick,tick,tick. I was told it would loosen up eventually but it never did.
 

2KTD'r

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2001
Location
NE,ohio
TDI
2003 TDI Wagon
I think I can top that. I had a new 97Jetta TDI and as I was driving it home for the first time, the lifter started to go tick,tick,tick that it eventually became a clack,clack,clack The Stealer said they "fixed it" but it still had the tick,tick,tick. I was told it would loosen up eventually but it never did.
 

amgad

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2000
Location
Marbella, Malaga, Spain
TDI
1998
Anyone can come up with a possible reason to why a lifter would go bad after the great looking after I do to my car??? Low oil pressure? Obstructed oil ducts?? Bad oil quality?? or just bad luck??
 

VW Vet

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2000
Location
Maine
TDI
Golf GL TDI, 2001
Do you know for sure it's a lifter? Have you done any close looking yourself? I'm not saying it's not a lifter, but try not to come to any conclusions (sp?) until you hear exactly what is making the noise.
 

amgad

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2000
Location
Marbella, Malaga, Spain
TDI
1998
The noise is exactly the same as the initial loud "clack clack clack" upon start up which normally dies after 3-6... but now this "clack clack clack" doesnt die out completly nòw, it just gets lower in volume but there is remaining a "clack clack clack" identical to the initial one.
 

TDi RAY

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Location
FT. Rucker, AL
TDI
Jolf '00 Nogaro Blue.
T least you didn't seize a lifter like a friend did in his tdi. Actully 2 lifters and the valvles stayed down and crashed in to the pistons. He has 115,000miles on the car so he is just out of warrenty. He is currently trying to get vw to buy the car back because he has had nothing but problems with it since Fred Vincent blew the first motor by taking shortcuts on the first timing belt on the car. They replaced themotor and it has never been the same. He has also locked up and injction pump because they never replaced the tensior pulley and the bearing went on it and ended up seizing the pump. They also payed for that and that was just about 5k ago so he was out of warrenty then but he said if they didn't pay his $2000 bill he would see them in court so they payed it.

2KTD'r has seen this motor I am talking about.
 

amgad

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2000
Location
Marbella, Malaga, Spain
TDI
1998
GUYS!! I've just noted to important things on my car...

1) the "clack clack clack" goes away after a while of driving (15-20 min) and the engine has warme up. Still though the idle noise is just a little higher than normal, although it is hard to hear the clacking over the general diesel knocking.

2) And this one worries me... there is a much louder whistle from the turbo (I think) at around 2500 rpm and under heavy load of the accelerator. The turbo sound fine except there is a clear extension of the whistle that sound like compressed air or something like that... don't know how to explain... a kind of whisle but not a high pitched one...

What is happening to this car??????
 

amgad

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2000
Location
Marbella, Malaga, Spain
TDI
1998
Forgot to mentioned that I disconnected the EGR here in spain around 5000km ago, and I noticed then that turbo whistle was a little louder but not like now.
 

amgad

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2000
Location
Marbella, Malaga, Spain
TDI
1998
Just been contacted by the dealer... they will replace the lifters and only charge me for the parts... the hand labour will be for free as a courtesy from them (even though I'm well out of any type of warranty, power train warranty does not exist in spain). This is because I contacted the post sales quality manager from the area and explained to him the problems (MAF, starter motor, Gearbox.. etc) that I havew been having with the car.

So all in all wil cost me around 200$

Still I'm worried about wheather their will be other damage maybe due to lack of lubrication which might have caused the bad lifters in the first place. I'll ask them to check oil pressure and oil ducts for obstruction.
 

dirtmvr

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2000
Location
Down in the hold of the Athens Queen
If they end up replacing the lifters, make sure you ask the dealership to give you the old ones back. Then I would have a good look at the wear patterns on the bottom of them to see what has been happening; no rotation etc.,(If you could post a digital picture that would be great). The wear patterns should tell the real story to see if another component contributed to the premature failure.
 

amgad

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2000
Location
Marbella, Malaga, Spain
TDI
1998
Here are the updates...
The loud turbo noise was just a cracked turbo hose running from the turbo to the intercooler... got that replaced.

The Tappets have also been replaced yesterday and this morning I've noticed that the initial Clack clack clack (normal till the tappets are fully lubricated) does not die out completely after a few seconds. Instead it stays with a residual clack clack clack (not very loud but noticable) till the car warms up.

These are my assumptions.

1.- This is a case of low oil pressure...since tappets are new and noise is still there. I asked them to check oil pressure but they couldnt as AC ducts were in the way of the oil pressure measuring area.

2.- I have indeed a bad injector... this I'm not sure about since the noise does eventually die out eventually.

3. The noise is produced elsewhere.

I must say that before I had the tappets replcaced, the noise used to take longer to die out and never die out completly. Now it dies out faster and when it does.. the noise is hardly apparent.


What Can I do??? You more experienced out there, shall I go back to the dealer and make a fuss or what??

Thanks.
 

saabguru

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Location
The Capital of the Great State of Texas
Glad to hear your troubles are over. NO POWERTRAIN WARRANTY in Spain? ***???? Actually, your oil is heavier than specified, correct? Is 5W40 not the recomended viscosity? I wonder if that could have been the source of the lifter problem.
 

christi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 22, 1999
Location
Ruislip, Middlesex, UK
TDI
Peugeot 806, 607
Originally posted by saabguru:
NO POWERTRAIN WARRANTY in Spain? ***????
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Normally you get a one year manufacturers warranty throughout Europe.

Sometimes an importer will increase this to maybe three years, but if you buy the car from another country in Europe and import it then you only get the one year.

One effect is that I believe that European buyers are quite aware of the reliability of different brands. If a particular brand get a reputation as being unreliable then they don't fare well.

An example is that Lancia had to pack up and leave the UK market after their problems in the seventies.
 
Top