2002 01M Front Pump change

JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
2002 VW Golf Tdi 01M Automatic 172K

Hello, My issue is a leak at the Torque converter, it's getting worst and worst and needs to be addressed.........

A) I've located a 2002 01M with 160K the guy say, it ran great, his engine broke a timing belt and he lost his engine, so he's parting out the car....So this is an option, but maybe it's a can of worms....... would my TMC work, or do I need the one from this transmission?........or just reprogrammed?

B) On eBay I can get a rebuilt front pump and all the seals for about $150 (I'm leaning in this direction)

Either way I'll be paying a mechanic to do the work...... to R&R the trans he wants $500 - $600

I just had him changed the valve body in my 01M and if runs great, just has this leak... I dough just a front pump seal will fit it......I think the front pump bushing is bad, and in looking at rebuilding the front pump, I think I'm better off, just buying a rebuilt pump...... to much labor if it's not right......

Thanks for any suggesting in advance.........johnO
 

2000alhVW

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Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
TDI
2000 Golf
if the leak occurred after your guy did the trans work, then it's almost certainly a leaking pan gasket (in my opinion).

I found out the hard way, the oil pan on these cars is incredibly stupid (as is the entire transmission), and the pan is extremely easy to bend/warp.
On the 2 pan bolts, on the engine side, the fluid seems to leak horizontally, and drips from right under the torque converter area.

I wouldn't have believed it unless I watched the drip of ATF slide over from the pan and move 6" away over to the TC before dripping off.
 

flee

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Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
Also, each pan bolt has a spacer between the pan and the trans.
They're the same thickness as the gasket and are easily lost or forgotten.
 

JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
Thanks, I'll double check the pan gasket.......I'll jack it up again tomorrow............so if the spacers are missing, you can over "Squeeze" the gasket and make it leak.......... I'm guessing I should be able to see "wet" sides to my trans pan
 

2000alhVW

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Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
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2000 Golf
Thanks, I'll double check the pan gasket.......I'll jack it up again tomorrow............so if the spacers are missing, you can over "Squeeze" the gasket and make it leak.......... I'm guessing I should be able to see "wet" sides to my trans pan
uhh...not quite.
If the spacers are missing, you bend and ruin the pan. Well, and the gasket too, but that's minor.
Additionally, it's perfectly likely that someone tried to bolt the pan on without the spacers, then went back and added them later. Even though you might see the spacers are currently in the gasket, the damage would already have been done. Wipe off old oil and check for new drips.

This is especially sucky because each time you remove the pan to check for spacers, if the gasket got kinked, or if the pan is bent, you also waste several liters of ATF, and then you gotta do the STOOOPID 30C fluid level check procedure all over again................
 

alex_tdi

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Joined
May 15, 2001
Location
Los Angeles, CA
TDI
TDI GLS, 2001, Blue
That happened to me too. When my transmission was fixed due to the differential failure (never changed that fluid before cuz no mechanic ever mentioned it needed replacing), that sucker leaked and I had to take it back like 7 times.

After that, I started doing my own maintenance and when I pulled off the transmission pan for my first DIY fluid change, I noticed it had a ton of RTV all over the gasket area.

Got a new gasket, made sure the spacers were there and torqued correctly. Filled and checked the fluid with VCDS. Not a drop since.

I really don't know why the manufacturers have such a stupid fluid level check procedure. And not just VAG, Toyota now too! You can just place a dip stick in the same place where you add the ATF instead of that over-complicated plug and cap. I'm more than happy to pay the extra dollar or even ten for a dip stick.
 
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JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
My mechanic is above average, so I don't think he forgot the spacers and bent the pan........... But I did supply a cheep eBay gasket........... While I'm under there, I'd like to try my hand at check the fluid level......... I'm no dummy, and I've been a mechanic all my life and my Dad was a Tool & Die maker, so I've got a machine shop background to .......Anyway, the way it was explained to me, to check the fluid level is (A) the car most be level..........so if I want to raise the car, I need four jack stands......(B) Engine is running (I believe in park)......BTW, I saw somewhere a note about transmission fluid temperature...... (C) pull that level plug and just a little fluid should come out...... as I understand it, that plug has a tube on the inside that is the fluid level........ I agree with alex tdi put a dip stick in the fill tube........ I'll go one better too...... a long fill tube, that has access from the top!!........Then you could check it, and top it off
 

JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
Update....(A) spoke to my mechanic to confirm the spacers were in there.....(B) have the car up on 4 jack stands....... the trany pan looked good.... nothing bent or distorted and it also looked dry, but I was suspicious about the front under the skid plate........After removing the skid plate ...... the Underneath of the skid plate was wet!.....and the front edge of the pan gasket was also wet........so I think before I spend big money and pull the trans.......I'm going to take my fellow ALH owner advice and try a OEM VW Trans Pan Gasket (096321370)........ unless something better is recommended
 

JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
Sat 9/19/18 Decided to drop my pan and HondaBond the gasket today........Guaranteed the pan is sealed!........took a quick 5 mile drive,and have a very small drip........ tomorrow I'll run it to the Sporting Clay range and back, that's about 40 miles and then see how bad my drip is............In talking to my mechanic about changing the front pump, he recommends a new converter too...........any opinions.........just a pump or pump & converter??
 

2000alhVW

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
TDI
2000 Golf
Your pan is bent. I guarantee it.
This is why this process sucks so much. It goes like this...
  1. Drop pan for original fluid change.
  2. Replace gasket, forget to replace spacers
  3. Tighten pan down. Bend pan tabs and ruin gasket in the process
  4. Fluid leaks.
  5. Remove pan again. Check gasket. Maybe use RTV this time
  6. Pan leaks.
  7. Remove pan again. You now realize you need to use spacers.
  8. Install pan. Fill up with fluid for the THIRD time, and do crappy VCDS Fluid level check.
  9. Pan leaks.
  10. Drop pan. Now you do RTV AND the spacers. "Definitely won't leak this time!"
  11. Pan leaks.
  12. You drop pan, and finally realize it's bent.
  13. You replace pan.
  14. Pan doesnt leak.

Every time you drop the pan, you have to empty all the fluid. You can save and re-use some of it, but I'm sure most people would utter something along the lines if "just to be safe..." or "wouldn't want to risk it" and advise 5L of new "VW OEM fluid". Pretty craptastic job when that fluid is like $20 per liter? I don't know. I just used Valvoline maxlife.

I spent like $80 just in ATF (the cheap stuff, too! $7/liter or $27 for a 5L)...what a nightmare.
 
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JohnnyO

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Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
I guarantee my pan is straight, the spacers have never been forgotten....and now with my HondaBond, my pan isn't the issue....BTW...I'm with you and re-used the fluid.......she gets wet between the engine & transmission...........I think it has to be the front pump seal, so probably a bad pump bushing...........so do I change the converter with the pump?..........what my mechanic is afraid of is, if he gets the box out and the converter has a wear ring ,the job stops and his lift is hung up for and extra day or two while I get a converter..........I do see his point
 

wonneber

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Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
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2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
In talking to my mechanic about changing the front pump, he recommends a new converter too...........any opinions.........just a pump or pump & converter??
If the converter hub is not scored up and does not have signs of wear I would think it's OK.
I don't know the diameter of it, maybe someone here knows?

A new front pump would have a new bushing in it where the converter rides.
Shouldn't be a problem.
I don't know if there is a gasket, o-ring, or both for the pump.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The pump assembly is NLA from Volkswagen... but it was an $800 part anyway. The bushing comes in the pump, as was not sold by itself (from Volkswagen). The seal and gasket are available by themselves.

The pumps are available in the aftermarket. I have no experience with them, and I cannot recall ever seeing one leaking. I have seen about 100+ botched pan jobs though, as well as lots of smashed pans. Also seen a few harness passthroughs leak as well as the o-ring on them leak.
 

JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
Also seen a few harness passthroughs leak as well as the o-ring on them leak.
I'll have to have double check the harness passthrough...........after double sealing my pan, my leak is reduce(not gone, but better)..........it leaks while driving, and everything underneath is wet........ but when sitting,it comes from just underneath the torque converter housing..........

It's Interesting, that there are very little reports of these 01M transmissions leaking at the pump

Here;s what I've found on eBay

01M O1M Transmission Front Pump Assembly Complete Recon 10 Hole Stator VW Audi $127.77 shipped

VW 095 Pump Seal Up Gasket Kit 096 01M 097 01N 098 01P Transmission Seals $22.99 Shipped

VW Volkswagen Torque Converter VW 01M 01P JETTA BEETLE EUROVAN 1.9L 2.0L 2.8L (Reman) $158.00 Shipped

Labor R&R Trans with Alignment $600

Plus Trans Fluid cost
 

JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
Ordered the pump & converter, plus of course gaskets & ATF...... the leak is getting worse..........maybe as much as 1oz/10 miles........so I keep adding ATF until next week when all my parts are here..........Seems to leak while driving much more so then Idling in Park.......
 

JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
Sure enough the front pump seal was shot......... Leak is fixed!!......Now the rebuilt torque converter failed!.....I now have a Direct Drive Transmission!!!....More $$$$$$ down the tube!!.........going to have my old converter put back in, and get my money back for the reman
 

JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
Update........100% Fixed runs like NEW!....... Put my original converter back in and guess what!!........ Same ****!..... Converter locked!!...... So the failure was the Valve body solenoid control harness.......... Easy replacement compared to the converter.........All problems fixed, also turned up the valve body line pressure by 20 clicks
 

JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
Sorry for any confusion!

I fixed my leak with the replacement of the front pump and at that time I replace the torque converter too

About 20 miles after the new pump and converter were installed, the trans went into and stayed in converter lock

My thinking was a got a bad converter

Changed the converter back to my original........ Same problem

Next I change the solenoid harness......problem fixed........

Also turned up the line pressure 20 clicks.........Trans has never been better!!

Quick Note: Of some history of this transmission....... at about 150K it would jump out of converter lock sometimes........at about 160K started slipping when hot........I replaced the Valve Body......Worked perfect!.......at about 170K started to slip again...... I misdiagnosed the problem and changed the Valve Body again, turned out the trans was low on fluid do to a small leak....... the leak got worst and worst until it was about 1 Liter per 50 miles......... so the harness was removed twice........I did see somewhere on this Forum to REPLACE the harness with the valve body!!! I now have to recommend that too!!

01M Conclusion......... First my Reference points

01 TDi Golf 2D GL 01M Purchased with 150K Sold with 270K No Issues!! (Fluid changed with Timing Belt @ 180K)
02 TDi Golf 4D GL 01M Purchased with 142K now 172K 01M Repairs about $2K some money was wasted from my mistaken diagnostics (live & learn!!) (Driven Daily / Wife's car)
03 TDi Jetta Wagon GLS Purchased with 150K present 212K No Issues (Driven Daily / My Driver) (Going to change the Trans Fluid & filter with the next oil change @ 215K and turn up the line pressure too)

I think these transmissions are much more durable, then they are given credit for!!...... The dealers just want to crush you and sell you a new car!! (They gave me a $5K quote and told me I needed a New Transmission)........ After driving my 02 Golf 01M.......(A) Low on fluid Slipping.......(B) Over Filled and puking......(C) for over a 100 miles with the converter locked!!... I had to shift it manual, I had to thrown it in gear like dropping a clutch!, it would even stall the engine sometimes....I had to pop it in neutral when stopping!... and try not to come to a complete stop....... so between Forward and Reverse I must of thrown it in gear 20 times!!...... probably stalled the engine 1/2 of that....... my 01M took a ass whooping! and is now working perfect!
 

alex_tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
May 15, 2001
Location
Los Angeles, CA
TDI
TDI GLS, 2001, Blue
Sorry for any confusion!

I fixed my leak with the replacement of the front pump and at that time I replace the torque converter too

About 20 miles after the new pump and converter were installed, the trans went into and stayed in converter lock

My thinking was a got a bad converter

Changed the converter back to my original........ Same problem

Next I change the solenoid harness......problem fixed........

Also turned up the line pressure 20 clicks.........Trans has never been better!!

That's great to hear.

My 01M has 185K miles and it still shifts perfect after the most recent fluid change (Valvoline Maxlife).

It was a little low, so I'm thinking I should start looking for slow leaks.

How difficult was it for you to change the pump seals and the torque converter? Did you have to take out whole transmission, or were you able to do it while it's in the car? I have the old school paper Bently manual and the instructions were not very clear the first time I skimmed through it.
 

JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
Transmission has to come out.....my local mechanic charged me $600 to R&R the trans and re-aline the front end
 

JohnnyO

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Location
Mercersburg, PA
TDI
2003 Jetta Tdi Wagon & 2002 Golf TDi GL 4Dr
600 Mile Update......... Something let loose!!!!.......... First a bearing whine then funny shifts, then a bit of a rattle!!.........Dam!!!........Well, I must have hurt it, those 100 miles I drove with the converter in Lock, especially those neutral starts....... So if that ever happens.......... Get it towed!!........ A used box is $1K+ installed, so I'm Going to spring $2K for a 100% rebuilt 01M.........Real shame........ I'm not driving a 2002 because I'm made out of money!!
 

VLS_GUY

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Sep 27, 2006
Location
Camarillo, CA
TDI
2002 Bug, Skid Plate, Stage 1 Upsolute
OK, You have been playing around with this 01M for sometime now and have yet to realize what others that have bought rebuilt 01M transmissions found out the hard way: A rebuilt $ 2,000 01m is not properly rebuilt to have any sort of reliability. Even if you rebuild this transmission be prepared for a few more R&R sessions-assuming that the case is not damaged and the transmission can't be used again. As for )1M rebuilders are you using Dubble's in Reading, PA? My rebuild lasted a year from them.
You have two choices a re-manufactured 01M or a 5 speed conversion (the best option).
 
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