Oil change...5k, 10k then every 10k !?!

I've only had my 2003 Golf TDI for a few months and finally hit the 5000 mile mark...time for the first oil change. I guess I hadn't really read the manual very thoroughly previously, but looking at it today, I see that after 10k you only change the oil every 10k miles?

Every other modern car (all gas) that I've had recommended oil changes every 3000 miles or so. Is it really good practice to go 10,000 miles between changes?

Also...the manual didn't even talk about changing the filter. I did change it (although, there wasn't even a picture to show where it was). Had the oil changed at a Kwiki-Lube type place (dealer couldn't get me in for a week and I wanted to get it done).

What do you all find to be good oil change/filter practices?

Also...the manual talked about draining the "water separator"...but also had no picture or anything at all about this. I called the dealer...they said that it was not SO important at 5k and they would do it at 10k if I brought it in.

What most of the forum recommends is that you:

1. Do the oil change yourself. Only you know what goes on because everyone else (dealer and kwiklube places) often dont care and strip plugs and stuff!

2. Use Mobile Delvac-1 synthetic oil. Use search for the best oil! Most like Mobile Delvac-1!!

3. 10,000 miles is just fine!!

4.Water seperator is there and most of us hardly find any water. You should if you get crappy diesel, but for the most part, my opinion, no PROBLEM!

Changing your oil is simple!! about 1/2hr job. first time to do it maybe an hour, but NOTHING TO BE SCARED OF!

Hope I helped!

I've only had my 2003 Golf TDI for a few months and finally hit the 5000 mile mark...time for the first oil change. I guess I hadn't really read the manual very thoroughly previously, but looking at it today, I see that after 10k you only change the oil every 10k miles?

Every other modern car (all gas) that I've had recommended oil changes every 3000 miles or so. Is it really good practice to go 10,000 miles between changes?

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Every other modern car you had also used dino oil. TDI's come with full synthetic oil from the factory. And should only have full synthetic at every oil change. That's why you can go 10k miles per oil change.

Also...the manual didn't even talk about changing the filter. I did change it (although, there wasn't even a picture to show where it was). Had the oil changed at a Kwiki-Lube type place (dealer couldn't get me in for a week and I wanted to get it done).

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Change the oil filter when you change the oil.

What do you all find to be good oil change/filter practices?

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I change my oil and oil filter every 10k miles. Just like the manual says.

Also...the manual talked about draining the "water separator"...but also had no picture or anything at all about this. I called the dealer...they said that it was not SO important at 5k and they would do it at 10k if I brought it in.

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VW says to do it every 10k miles when you change the oil. But 99% of the people out there, including me, don't bother with it. I always use diesel treatment that gets rid of any water that might be in the fuel. I've had my TDI for 38k miles now and haven't had any water problems yet. And I've never drained the filter except when I changed it every 20k miles.

Use Mobile Delvac-1 synthetic oil. Use search for the best oil! Most like Mobile Delvac-1!!

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And people wonder how oil wars get started.

Yes, please do a search of all the different oils out there. Research their specs and performance. And when you're done you'll see Mobil Delvac-1 is not the best oil available. It's a very good oil, and seems to be the oil of choice on this forum, but it's definitely not the best oil out there.

2. Use Mobile Delvac-1 synthetic oil.

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Hmmm. Well, I've got plain old Valvoline 5W-30 in there now.

Should I let it go and just change it at 10K...or put a synthetic in now? That'll be in about 4k miles.

Well, I've got plain old Valvoline 5W-30 in there now.

Should I let it go and just change it at 10K...or put a synthetic in now? That'll be in about 4k miles.

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Change it ASAP. Your TDI came from the factory with full synthetic oil. And only full synthetic oil should be used at every oil change.

Yes, please do a search of all the different oils out there. Research their specs and performance. And when you're done you'll see Mobil Delvac-1 is not the best oil available. It's a very good oil, and seems to be the oil of choice on this forum, but it's definitely not the best oil out there.

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so tell us, what is THE BEST OIL?

Yes, the oil change interval should be 10,000 miles, but only if you are using fully synthetic CH-4 or CI-4 (diesel rated) oil. Regular 5w-30 Valvoline, while quite acceptable for a gasser, is a really bad idea for your TDI. Not only can it not take the heat of the turbo bearings, it can't handle the soot load of a diesel. And it is way too volatile, it'll gunk up your intake manifold. Get it out of there now, don't wait another 4,000 miles.

Basically, the mismatch is you've lubed your wheel bearings not with axle grease, but with watch oil. Fine stuff for its intended purpose, but a serious mismatch for where you put it.

Folks here recommend Delvac 1, or Amsoil. Acceptable, but not great are Shell Rotella, and all in a 5w-40 weight. Which is another reason the 5w-30 Valvoline is a bad idea.

You know, the original poster didn't even ask which oil to use. What has ensued is how oil wars get started

The most important thing to point out to a newbie is to follow the factory recommendations. Also recommended is the service manual by Bentley - www.rb.com

so tell us, what is THE BEST OIL?

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I did my homework. Now you do yours.

plain old Valvoline will definitely not do! Call the dealer and ask or look in the manual. You need to get that oil out and full synthetic diesel oil in there. I use Delvac 1 (and did my homework) but other oils will work fine (and most say just as fine).

The most important thing to point out to a newbie is to follow the factory recommendations.

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Do keep in mind the factory recommendations are minimum requirements. Some people, like myself, aren't satisfied with getting by on just the minimum. We prefer the maximum.

And recommending a 5w-40 oil is just VW's way of getting everyone to use a "one size fits all" oil. But the more educated people know to use an oil with a viscosity rating best suited to their weather climate.

For example, I use a full synthetic 15w-40 oil. It's recommended for temps down to 5F (even though it has a pour point of -47F). It never gets below 20F here in the winter. So it's safe for me to use it year round.

I use Delvac 1 (and did my homework)....

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Must not have studied very hard then.

You need to get that oil out and full synthetic diesel oil in there.

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Well...everyone seems to agree on that!

Have I got a few days OK...or get it out tomorrow?
(don't know much about how it would affect the turbo..etc.)

Have I got a few days OK...or get it out tomorrow?
(don't know much about how it would affect the turbo..etc.)

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I'd get it out ASAP.

Hmmm. Well, I've got plain old Valvoline 5W-30 in there now.

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Probably not an appropriate oil. You need 5W-40 or 5W-30 with at least one of the following ratings:

API CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, or CF-4 (in practice, only CI-4 and CH-4 are currently available; CF is not the same as CF-4)

ACEA B3 or B4

VW 505.00

The above are all diesel-specific ratings. Many 5W-40 oils (all of which are "synthetic" in the US) do have at least one of the above ratings, but 5W-40 oils are not too common (easiest to find is Shell Rotella T Synthetic in Wal Mart); 5W-30 oils that have any of the above ratings are even more obscure (e.g. Castrol Elixion). VW dealers in the US use Castrol Syntec 5W-40 (with the VW 505.00 and ACEA B3 and B4 ratings) that is available only at VW dealers in the US and is more expensive than most other suitable oils.

It is unlikely that a quick-lube place will have an appropriate oil. Although if the place offers Valvoline, ask if it has Premium Blue Extreme 5W-40 (API CH-4) or Synpower 5W-40 (ACEA B3). If you go to a quick-lube place that uses Pennzoil, ask for European Formulation 5W-40; if it uses Chevron, ask for Delo 400 Synthetic 5W-40 or their other synthetic 5W-40. But most people here would suggest not using a quick-lube place at all (changing the oil and filter in a TDI engine is relatively easy to do oneself).

I would remind y'all that the 5w-30 Valvoline in there now only goes 3,000 miles in a non-turbo gasser. What makes anybody think it will last longer (4,000 miles) in the more severe turbo-diesel environment for which it wasn't formulated in the first place???

Yes, you have a few days. It won't cause the engine to blow up immediately. But it sure isn't doing you any good either. A few days, a couple hundred miles even, fine, but replace it asap. And do the next oil change at the recommended 10K total, because, remember, you will have the next oil you put in somewhat contaminated by Valvoline as soon as you put it in, so it ought not be expected to go as far as it otherwise would have.

I can't believe that a quick lube would put regular oil in your car. I mean don't they know its a diesel. Even if they didn't get the synthetic part right they should have used some type of diesel rated oil. Jeez. I guess those dumb assed monkey's can't read an owners manual.

I wouldn't trust a quick lube to put air in my tires let alone change my oil.

Dump that Oil ASAP. Find something that is rated for your car. Even if you have to go to the dealer to purchase the Castrol Syntec that is like $8 a quart do it now.

Like others have said do a search for what oil is best for your car. You will have a good time reading for sure.

Its all a matter of finding educated monkeys. The quick lube near me where I lived in Cleveland was very good. They were very particular about everything they did, and even carried TDI oil filters, AND offer oil analysis... I trusted them more than the oil jockey at my local dealership at that point.... Now I just do it myself..

Delvac 1 all the way!

Update:

The only suitable oil I could find locally was the Rotella T 5W-40 at Walmart. I ordered the Pela 6000 oil extractor today...so, I should be set!

You know, the original poster didn't even ask which oil to use. What has ensued is how oil wars get started

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I stopped reading the oil war threads some time ago. But in this case it was probably a good thing that a "best oil" discussion started considering what ikendu put in his TDI.

Final update:

Mission accomplished!

Nasty old non-synthetic oil vacuumed out of the Golf!

New filter and good, full synthetic oil put into the Golf!

Congratulations

Yeah, ikendu!

No one will ever know how many pounds of hard-to-extract sooty crap will not have to be dug out of your intake manifold (at great expense at the dealers, or lotsa labor in your driveway) 40,000 miles from now, or how much money you'll save by not having to replace turbos every 50,000 miles by having asked that particular question when you did.

Your car thanks you, and if one other person was dissuaded from using the wrong stuff by having stumbled upon this thread, something we are also not likely to ever know, then life is good and a lot more is right with the world.

I should know the answer to this and I know the posters are tired of it all. But here goes (I am sorry):

Synthetics: These are made from refiney or petrochemical plant processed ethylene feedstocks (or propylene) that are polymerized to MW equivalent to oil (not solvents) or C12 to C24+ lengths. They are called poly alpha olefins (PAO), linear alpha olefins (LAO), internal alpha olefins (IAO) or just "poly olefins," like your garbage bag but liquid and not extenders, diluents, etc. They are "synthetics." Seems an easy ASTM type test would show this as the base stock. When I worked in refinery planning, we did economic models for nonene, dodecene, etc in the C8-C12 ranges (detergents, solvents, etc.).

Mineral oils: These are from the bottom of the refining units (distillation, hydrocracking, etc.) and can be solvent extracted (ROSE) or other processes, then they could be deeply hydrogenated (hydrotreated) and fractionated to produce base oils. Is this Group I-IV? Lab analysis would show the different fractions and their chemistry.

This seems like an odd issue. Synthetic is premium but if you change oil every 3,000 miles can your engine see the difference? Do the base oil suppliers tell the truth in retail? I know if a base oil supplier (BP, Shell) is selling PAO to another business (blender, independent?) it is hard to lie about the two. But in retail, we end users seldom have the ability to tell the difference?

I just bought Syntec 10-40W and am I sure it is PAO? I emailed Castrol to get them to assure me that it is PAO. I am awaiting a reply. Will they reply? Is it an ISO issue?

Mineral oils: These are from the bottom of the refining units (distillation, hydrocracking, etc.) and can be solvent extracted (ROSE) or other processes, then they could be deeply hydrogenated (hydrotreated) and fractionated to produce base oils. Is this Group I-IV? Lab analysis would show the different fractions and their chemistry.

I just bought Syntec 10-40W and am I sure it is PAO? I emailed Castrol to get them to assure me that it is PAO. I am awaiting a reply. Will they reply? Is it an ISO issue?

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Group IV and V refer to base stocks made of "built up" stuff like PAO. Group III refers to base stocks made of hydrocracked mineral oils with performance characteristics close to that of group IV and V; these are allowed to be sold as "synthetic" in the US. Group I and II are "conventional" oils.

Most Castrol "synthetic" oils (and most other "synthetic" oils) sold in the US are group III based (not sure about the "German Syntec" (0W-30?) or Elixion). Unfortunately, the lower manufacturing cost of group III oils is usually not reflected in the retail price; if it was, they would be relative bargains from a price/performance standpoint.

Goat21,

The only PAO based, Castrol sylubes I've seen recently are their German made 0w-30 (ACEA A3/B4 and VW 502/505 rated) and the new CI-4 rated Elixion, 5w-30. The latter is similiar in concept to the Amsoil Series 3000, 5w-30, ie it's a fuel efficient replacement for 15w-40 oils used in commercial diesel engines. Of course the Amsoil product has been on the market for seven years now, so this is hardly a new idea ...

TooSlick
www.lubedealer.com/Dixie_Synthetics

Too slick,

Thanks. I exchanged the Syntec for Mobil 1 MX4T. First, I was uncertain from the other posts that the Castrol was 100% PAO based. Next, this is for a old motorcycle, hence I need all the extra additives that would poision the catalysts in the gasoline car. Not sure about diesel engines. This was $7.99/qt v. $4.99 for Syntec (maybe price reflects the base oil cost differences). I also got the gear box lube oil from Mobil 1 for $16/qt. There are some good lube sites like <http://www.noria.com> where issues of PAO, additives, etc. are all covered well.