5th Gear problems

Glad to hear everything is working...I wish I could give you some advice on the reverse gear, but I don't have much knowledge on these transmissions. Hopefully someone else will chime in...

EDIT: Oh and I agree with your choosing loctite over the bore and pin/weld method...while that method may ultimately hold better if done correctly it would be nigh impossible to get it correct without removing the tranny from the car and the main shaft from the transmission. Not to mention drilling into hardened steel shafts. You did the right thing...hope it continues to hold!!

DSJ - Good to hear it's working for you.

Keep us posted - I have a feeling it will last longer than many think

DSJ...what gear oil did you finally settle on? Redline, G60, or something different?

Just want to say that the drive into work was fantastic!!!! I really am glad I got this gear fixed, the drive is much quieter and I feel better about the lower rpm's for potential longterm engine wear. Thanks to everyone that had comments, suggestions along the way! I'll let everyone know how it ends up after 5,000 miles.

RamMan4x4 said:

DSJ...what gear oil did you finally settle on? Redline, G60, or something different?

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I haven't yet, but thats just cause I'm going to swap fluid one more time. I didn't exactly reassemble my tranny in a clean room environment and given the damage done to it, it can't hurt. I'm leaning toward the Redline MT-90. I live in a fairly warm climate in SC with the lowest being the low-mid 20's. Also, I want to use something thicker than the OEM's because of the potential wear that happened to the rest of the transmission because of the rust and water.

Anyone that has done a gear swap have any comments on putting the selector arm and linkage fork back together? I followed Dave's HOW TO, but I'm wondering if maybe I put the little fork back on in the wrong position or that it needs to be able to move slightly and this could be causing my problems with shifting into reverse. The actual selector slides fine on and off the gear in 5th... I should have taken the time to watch how Reverse works, but I didn't figure out the problem until after I had the cover back on and full of oil.

Sc0 said:

I have a nice .681 5th gear set that has 99% of the gear teeth broken off of both the large and small gears. Back to stock 5th gear for me, if I have anymore problems perhaps I will find another transmission and do a 3.16 R&P change and transfer my peloquinn over.

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I've put many thousands of miles on my .681, then went with a .658 when I swapped out the trans (diff explosion)... Something was wrong inside if the gears stripped out like that.. I'm running a pretty obscene amount of torque through mine too. Not quite as much as before, but it's pretty high

shweet!

For reverse issues, try readjusting your shift linkage. Difficult engagement for the first few shifts of a reassembled syncro is pretty normal, but reverse could mean something got bumped. I’d try following the adjustment procedure for the “gear selector mechanism” in the manual or adapt the Dieselgeek adjustment instructions for the stock barrels.
http://www.dieselgeek.com/sigmafiveinstall.htm
As long as 5th doesn’t rub, clunk, pop out easily, whine, or act unsynchronized, and the shifter sits still in the pocket when going down the road, I doubt there’s a problem with 5th. Reverse on these things is marginal at best anyway (thin spring-loaded wheel and narrow shaft with DEEP grooves). A little adjustment along with no BS technique and paranoia suppression should go a long way.


Congrats on the ‘fix’. Hopefully it’ll last for you. Were you even able to tell the RPM difference with the lower 5th?

dirtysouthjacket said:

(snip) Anyone that has done a gear swap have any comments on putting the selector arm and linkage fork back together? I followed Dave's HOW TO, (snip)

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__. I've seen a similar shift problem cured by a little lube on the shifter and a re-alignment of the shifter:

Pull up the shifter boot at the bottom of the shift lever. You'll see a ball mechanism with couple of holes at the 7 o-clock. Take a good lube and slightly oil up the ball. Shift the lever until the holes line up and slip the right size drill bit in the holes to keep the lever in position. Loosen the shifter mechanism at the transmission and once everything lines up easily, tighten it all up without any side loads on anything. Remove the drill bit and lower the shifter boot.

__. I think that there's a "how-to" somewhere on this with pictures -- that would be a lot better than my description but it's a pretty easy job.

I didn't really notice a difference in the rpm between your gear and mine. I could run it through one of the calculators, but I'm thinking around 70 and its about 2400 rpm, so that is fine for me. I'll pay more attention going to work tomorrow. I'm not too concerned about mpg either.

Thanks to both of you, gth and MrGutWrench! I did the adjustment as well as the lubing of the shift linkage and it worked great! Very smooth into reverse again like new! I'm very happy so far with the results of the repair and already have 180 miles on the "new" gear. So happy in fact that I got a speeding ticket going to lunch today! Doh! Anyways, thanks again for all the support and ideas. I'll post again when I have a few thousand miles on the repair.

I’m sure a through explanation to the ticketing officer would have helped .

How far off was the linkage (how many turns)? I’m curious about how much is required to throw off reverse.

gth said:

I’m sure a through explanation to the ticketing officer would have helped .

How far off was the linkage (how many turns)? I’m curious about how much is required to throw off reverse.

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Not sure what you mean by "turns"... I used this How To I found that explained about pulling back the spring on the cable connector to disconnect both shifter cables.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1937168&postcount=7

Once I had the transmission and the shifter both locked in the home position I just released the springs which locked the connectors back onto the cables. Pretty simple, but no turns

dirtysouthjacket said:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1937168&postcount=7

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Ahhh. For some reason I thought the ends could be tweaked by rotating the barrel like a turnbuckle. I'm glad I didn't try THAT before replacing them.
Without marking a start point, I'll bet it's tough to figure out how much it was off. No biggie, I was just curious how much would throw it off.

gth said:

Ahhh. For some reason I thought the ends could be tweaked by rotating the barrel like a turnbuckle. I'm glad I didn't try THAT before replacing them.
Without marking a start point, I'll bet it's tough to figure out how much it was off. No biggie, I was just curious how much would throw it off.

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You can adjust them by a few threads at the time, but it's by locking the clamps, sliding it up the rod, then releasing the clamps. Generally you don't need a starting point marked - just let them clamp on where they may. Then one at a time release each one and manually move it a few threads and clamp back on.

Realigning the shifter linkage really makes a big difference as to how the car shifts - almost always to the better.

dirtysouthjacket: considering your avatar, when did you get out?

scurvy

scurvy said:

dirtysouthjacket: considering your avatar, when did you get out?

scurvy

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Graduated from Georgia Tech in May 2006!

I took the Jetta up to Charlotte this weekend and then rented an F250 to pick up a boat for a friend near Columbus OH. But I've got about 450 miles since the repair with 80-90% of that being on the interstate in 5th. So far so good. I haven't been babying it either. If I need to pass someone I do drop down into 4th, but I've left it in gear while going up hills and changing speed. Fingers crossed for 5000 miles! Once it gets there, I think it will last forever.

dirtysouthjacket said:

Graduated from Georgia Tech in May 2006!

I took the Jetta up to Charlotte this weekend and then rented an F250 to pick up a boat for a friend near Columbus OH. But I've got about 450 miles since the repair with 80-90% of that being on the interstate in 5th. So far so good. I haven't been babying it either. If I need to pass someone I do drop down into 4th, but I've left it in gear while going up hills and changing speed. Fingers crossed for 5000 miles! Once it gets there, I think it will last forever.

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__. Good news, keep us updated.

I'm heading to Wilmington NC this weekend for a friends going away party. I'm going to do a quick engine oil change as well as the transmission gear oil before I head out. The drive is 434 round trip, plus whatever I drive in town while I'm there. Looking like I should be around 1,100 miles on the repair when I get back on Saturday. So far so good!

dirtysouthjacket said:

Graduated from Georgia Tech in May 2006!

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Excellent, I did so in August 2003. Thanks to graduating seniors having their classes truncated somewhat, I had been living in Chicago for a full week when the graduation ceremony rolled around. No way was I getting up early on a Saturday to wear a plastic robe in the McTit in August. My diploma is still in its mailing tube on a shelf in a closet.

Glad to hear the "fix" is working for you so far - keep us updated.

So I rolled over 5000 miles since I repaired the 5th gear with Loctite 660! This saved me quite a bit of money over getting a rebuilt unit and then the hassle of dropping my transaxle unit and doing a swap. I appreciate everyone input and if anyone has any problems with their 5th gear not working am more than willing to help out! Hopefully its not a common problem.

I've got 21,000 miles on this Loctite Green and 5th gear repair! So happy I didn't have to replace a transmission!

dirtysouthjacket said:

I've got 21,000 miles on this Loctite Green and 5th gear repair! So happy I didn't have to replace a transmission!

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__. That's great news. Glad it's workin' for ya. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

Jesse, that's amazing. I did a quick read... I bet you that's a Katrina Kar... swamp mud in the tranny. The water boils out eventually leaving the muck.

I wouldn't bet on that transmission to last, as the wear is as likely to be in everything. But good luck as long as it will last.

Btw: I still got those PD 150's... Address?

When I rebuilt my tranny the small 5'th gear just slid off the shaft's of two different EGR's, and also dropped in on a 3.16R&P. (my shifts are at 1800rpms and am in 5'th by 40mph and stay their) I am thinking if I have anymore issues with this tranny I will take it to Scott and upgrade to one of his 6 speeds which uses new R&P shafts and new gears.

The NV4500's out of the cummins trucks had a problem with their 5th gears coming loose and stripping the shaft splines. They improved the locknut and shaft that holds the 5th gear on as a fix, others MIG/TIGd it without issues.

DSJ, and FUB for turning me to this thread. DSJ, what gears did you use? I read the post, but I must have missed it(very impressive thread btw).

My .681 gears did the same as yours the other day, and as you were, I am fretting about changing trannies. and I Drive alot too. 60 miles on way to werk 3 times a week and school back and forth. easily 2000 miles a month for me. so a quick cheap fix is definitely a head turner. I may try this next week, I need a new set of gears first, but I have a set ready for me(even though they are stock) it beats driving in 4th all the time.

Thanks for this. and btw, my oil didn't look anywhere as bad as yours, but man does this stuff stink.

TDikook said:

DSJ, and FUB for turning me to this thread. DSJ, what gears did you use? I read the post, but I must have missed it(very impressive thread btw).

My .681 gears did the same as yours the other day, and as you were, I am fretting about changing trannies. and I Drive alot too. 60 miles on way to werk 3 times a week and school back and forth. easily 2000 miles a month for me. so a quick cheap fix is definitely a head turner. I may try this next week, I need a new set of gears first, but I have a set ready for me(even though they are stock) it beats driving in 4th all the time.

Thanks for this. and btw, my oil didn't look anywhere as bad as yours, but man does this stuff stink.

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I used the stock gears. I would use them as the cost of a smaller gear set really doesn't warrant the fuel savings, plus I like torque. Also, if you have done damage, the risk of losing the gears again goes up.

So the gear finally failed, but I got 23,000 wonderful miles out of this very cheap fix. I am going to do it all over again as soon as I get another gear set. If anyone has a set of stock gears (don't want to pay the $ for a smaller set) I would be interesting in taking them off your hands. This time around though, I think I am going to use the red permanent Loctite since I wore the shaft a little bit more.

Speaking of the failure, just wondering how other peoples have failed. I think I am zeroing in on why mine have. The first time as well as the second, were both situations where I was on the interstate, someone cut in front of me and I had to slow down to around 45-55 mph. I think stepped on the gas to speed back up, but did not shift into 4th. I am trying to think through the physics on this and it has to related somehow to more force on the splined teeth of the smaller gear (which is coupled to the wheels). Haven't quite thought about it enough, but after I fix the gear, I am only using it at 60 mph or more!!!!!

I decided to NOT do this fix. I think you have it though. The peak torque for my engine is right around 2200 rpm. right where it was when mine failed. and My car has a bit more power than yours, so I didnt want to waste more money and time that I had to. I thought hard about it though.

So I just sucked it up and got a rebuild. should be here soon.

and I will try not to drive too slow in 5th when I get it in, as that is what I think what caused it too...

Eric B

is that color supposed to be like that?!?!? if the engine was that color i would walk away

What color? Where.... a little more description would help.

TDikook said:

So I just sucked it up and got a rebuild. should be here soon.


Eric B

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Well good luck with it! I would actually be leaning towards a rebuild as well due to the fact that my transmission is eventually going to rot from the inside out. But I just recovered from a $3000 timing belt break in January!

Where did you get your rebuild from, and did you do any upgrades?

and when looking for a used Tranny, I found that people are very proud of the 02j tranny. you can get a new one from BB . or a good rebuild for about the same price.

I did the full rebuild while I had to, Peloquin LSD, 3.16 Ring and Pinion, .717 5th gear. we shall see how I chose.. From what I can gather and all my searching, I should have a good tranny. Lets just hope it lasts...

TDikook said:

and when looking for a used Tranny, I found that people are very proud of the 02j tranny. (snip)

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__. Yeah, that's what I found. I got offered an early ('00 A4) used 5-speed. Seller showed me the car it came out of; '02 Golf with RC4, upsized turbo, big wheels, 6-speed, darkened glass, custom paint, etc. Said it had 60K on it when pulled. He had it all cleaned up, sitting in a cardboard box; he pulled the plastic plug on the shift tower and showed my how the later shift tower from my car would install right in. "It worked fine when the Golf owner had a little fender bender and decided to go to the 6-speed while the body work was being done". Said he wanted $600 for it so I bought it. He put a couple of layers of cardboard down in my trunk and insisted on putting it in my car himself.

__. I got it back to the "guru", we took it out of the cardboard box and found a crack under the bottom of the case. It didn't go to any gasket surface and might have been easily sealed but we pulled the 5th gear end cover and found a few tiny slivers of metal in the oil.

__. I looked at the options, bought a new one from BB, and sold the "used" one to somebody who wanted it as a "core" for $150.

__. Oh, well ....