HELP i fudged badly

cman9898 · Jun 10, 2020

hey folks. got a 2001 Jetta. found that the injection pump was leaking, and decided to fix it myself. I come from working on a 2nd gen dodge gasser, so I was not ready for what awaited me. as is normal for the unprepared, I YouTube it. what I saw showed that all I had to do was remove the pump, take it apart, reseal it, and reassemble it. what I later discovered is that doing that without the marks ( I discovered that trick later) on the pump throws the pump out of whack. the car has spent the last 8 months in a shop that has been continuously putting off my phone calls to get the work done. I'm going to draw the car back and attempt this again, with some more help. what tools/ know how / tips will I need to get the pump re-timed with the engine. it is currently starting and then turning into a runaway when started.

Lightflyer1 · Jun 10, 2020

Welcome! We have DIY tutorials here that specifically tell you how to do this. Reseal the pump and new timing belt kit installed properly. You need to do a lot of reading here as this isn't for the faint of heart. Not hard but has to be done right or damage will occur. We also have lists of those who have the needed VCDS tool and the proper lock down tools (not timing marks). Also a list for trusted mechanics. We also have parts suppliers here who sponsor the site and provide top quality correct parts for a reasonable price.

STDOUBT · Jun 10, 2020

A lot of great info in this thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2733762
Sounds like you're having problems with the quantity adjuster section of the pump.
the above link and then post #3 here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2308790
and also the dieselgeek pdf here:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2597/0906/files/TDI_Injection_Pump_Head_Seal_Replacement.pdf
was all I needed to get her done.
A lot of reading, but you're probably 90% the way there.

STDOUBT · Jun 10, 2020

One more thing,
You make it sound like you took the pump out of the car.
Did you remove the sprocket from the end shaft?
Did you take the cast-iron head off completely?
What all seals did you replace?
Please answer the above questions if you want the best advice.
EDIT: post #779 here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=276798&page=52
...will show you what you're in for if the head came off and shims dropped.

eddieleephd · Jun 11, 2020

Yeah, start reading those links and when you think you understand, read them again.
Metal nerd lock down tools are most used, especially if you don't generally make your own tools.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

Mongler98 · Jun 11, 2020

What video is on youtube that told you to do such a thing as remove the pump? Please share

cman9898 · Jun 11, 2020

STDOUBT said:
One more thing,
You make it sound like you took the pump out of the car.
Did you remove the sprocket from the end shaft?
Did you take the cast-iron head off completely?
What all seals did you replace?
Please answer the above questions if you want the best advice.
EDIT: post #779 here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=276798&page=52
...will show you what you're in for if the head came off and shims dropped.

I did not remove the bottom portion of the pump, just the top two parts. one was a much larger compartment, and one was the top plate. I don't remember the names of the parts. the seals were the rubber o ring between those parts and one more between the large center piece and the bottom part. again, i apologize for not knowing the names of all the parts. I cant find the video, so I think someone beat me to the removal of it. guess that's what I get for not doin enough research. thanks for the help everyone! ive got about a month till I can get cracking, so if you guys come across anything else, please let me know

Mongler98 · Jun 11, 2020

cman9898 said:
I did not remove the bottom portion of the pump, just the top two parts. one was a much larger compartment, and one was the top plate. I don't remember the names of the parts. the seals were the rubber o ring between those parts and one more between the large center piece and the bottom part. again, i apologize for not knowing the names of all the parts. I cant find the video, so I think someone beat me to the removal of it. guess that's what I get for not doin enough research. thanks for the help everyone! ive got about a month till I can get cracking, so if you guys come across anything else, please let me know

OH. Dude, your fine. You can take those off with no issues. The part you removed was called the QA (Quantity Adjuster)
There is a proper way, and a good way and works fine enough way
VCDS and a vagcom cable is the BEST way to get your QA adjusted. Range is from 1 to 9. 1 being the most fuel and 9 being the least. You want a stock car to be between 3 and 5 ideally. Most find that 3 to 4 is about right. you can run it down to 2 or 1.6 with little effect other than a tiny grasp at some more power (unnoticeable on a stock engine) but anything past 5 is going to have really BAD power.
The 2nd way is what you should have done, the scribe 2 lines method.
The 3rd way that you can do right now that works is called a "hammer mod"
Hammer mod is where you loosen the 4 bolts holding the LOWER part (QA) to the pump body but only enough that it does not leak think light finger tight here.
Put a block of wood on the side of the QA and tap it while the engine is running (TOWARDS the passenger side. small movements at a time
Once it starts idling poorly start tapping it to the driver side until it idles smooth. DONE. You just set it about between 2 and 5 give or take. About 1.4 is the lowest these go before rough idle. BTW for reference, you will typically gain 0.2 UP in number just from tightening the bolts. So do very small movements at a time. Do not force anything. Light taps. This will get to back on the road.
Also prime the lines. Using 2 wrenches (one to hold the 3rd (tallest) injector and the other to open the line on said injector, and then crank it till fuel comes out.
Clean up any spilled diesel, it will kill rubber hoses and bits on the outside of the engine.
Good luck

turbocharged798 · Jun 11, 2020

Mongler98 said:
What video is on youtube that told you to do such a thing as remove the pump? Please share

I actually pulled my pump to reseal it was filthy and I didn't want to get dirt inside the pump. Was cake to reseal the pump on the bench.

Mongler98 · Jun 11, 2020

turbocharged798 said:
I actually pulled my pump to reseal it was filthy and I didn't want to get dirt inside the pump. Was cake to reseal the pump on the bench.

you know there are these things called car washes, where you can clean your car with a high pressure hose. even on a low setting. maybe you should try it!

cman9898 · Jun 11, 2020

Mongler98 said:
OH. Dude, your fine. You can take those off with no issues. The part you removed was called the QA (Quantity Adjuster)
There is a proper way, and a good way and works fine enough way
VCDS and a vagcom cable is the BEST way to get your QA adjusted. Range is from 1 to 9. 1 being the most fuel and 9 being the least. You want a stock car to be between 3 and 5 ideally. Most find that 3 to 4 is about right. you can run it down to 2 or 1.6 with little effect other than a tiny grasp at some more power (unnoticeable on a stock engine) but anything past 5 is going to have really BAD power.
The 2nd way is what you should have done, the scribe 2 lines method.
The 3rd way that you can do right now that works is called a "hammer mod"
Hammer mod is where you loosen the 4 bolts holding the LOWER part (QA) to the pump body but only enough that it does not leak think light finger tight here.
Put a block of wood on the side of the QA and tap it while the engine is running (TOWARDS the passenger side. small movements at a time
Once it starts idling poorly start tapping it to the driver side until it idles smooth. DONE. You just set it about between 2 and 5 give or take. About 1.4 is the lowest these go before rough idle. BTW for reference, you will typically gain 0.2 UP in number just from tightening the bolts. So do very small movements at a time. Do not force anything. Light taps. This will get to back on the road.
Also prime the lines. Using 2 wrenches (one to hold the 3rd (tallest) injector and the other to open the line on said injector, and then crank it till fuel comes out.
Clean up any spilled diesel, it will kill rubber hoses and bits on the outside of the engine.
Good luck

how can I get it to the point to tinker with it in runaway mode? do I take the risk and start tapping with it running away, or just send it towards passenger side before I start it. also, once I get this corrected, is there anything I should look for in damage from a runaway? I come from gas engines, so diesels are a whole new learning curve.

Powder Hound · Jun 11, 2020

If it is in runaway mode, it sounds like the little knob that sticks down out of the quantity adjuster is not in its proper hole.

On the pump shaft, there is a metal donut. That donut has a round hole in it (not just the one it slides on through the middle), but a hole in the side. The small knob from the QA needs to insert into that hole. If not, you have no control over the amount of fuel the pump is injecting. Missing that hole is, to me, about the only way you'd have a runaway condition.

Cheers,

PH

csstevej · Jun 11, 2020

^^^^^what he said, did that exact same thing on my daughters NB.
As soon as I started it it started to run away , took off cover and sure enough I missed the hole. Redid it and all was well.

Mongler98 · Jun 11, 2020

YEP. as long as it did not get bent or too badly bent. its a really small bit. its easy to mess up. be careful.
so far you dindt fug it up past the point of no return!

AndyBees · Jun 12, 2020

Yep! Keep that engine clean ....... I pressure wash this ALH in my 84 Vanagon four or five times per year. Make sure the ALT is covered as the seal to the little circuit board inside the Voltage Regulator cannot handle direct high pressure.

And, when doing the IP re-seal, you should go ahead and replace the O-ring here as it will eventually be problematic...

I modified this 15/16" (24mm) socket by rounding out every other facet using a dremel.

Below is a pic of the modified socket and the plug...

jokila · Jun 12, 2020

Mongler98 said:
you know there are these things called car washes, where you can clean your car with a high pressure hose. even on a low setting. maybe you should try it!

And brake cleaner.

Mongler98 · Jun 12, 2020

jokila said:
And brake cleaner.

You can never have enough cans of it!

turbocharged798 · Jun 12, 2020

Mongler98 said:
you know there are these things called car washes, where you can clean your car with a high pressure hose. even on a low setting. maybe you should try it!

There's also this little thing called rust and corrosion and flakes of rust from the pump head was ready to fall inside.
My car's a driver not a beauty queen.Its a shame my 21 year old 425K mile engine isn't spotless.

cman9898 · Jun 12, 2020

AndyBees said:
Yep! Keep that engine clean ....... I pressure wash this ALH in my 84 Vanagon four or five times per year. Make sure the ALT is covered as the seal to the little circuit board inside the Voltage Regulator cannot handle direct high pressure.

And, when doing the IP re-seal, you should go ahead and replace the O-ring here as it will eventually be problematic...

I modified this 15/16" (24mm) socket by rounding out every other facet using a dremel.

Below is a pic of the modified socket and the plug...

does that seal come in the kit? I bought a kit from Kerma, I think, might have been diesel geek. came with a couple different seals and some brass washers. I also bought the security socket for the ip, so I have that now.

U4ick · Jun 21, 2020

All I can really say is WOW! What a Forum!

I've really got nothing to add here and really no business popping my bill,
but it's the evening of Fathers Day and no other family here, like there usually is, we're still kind of sheltering in place. Also I've tossed back a few Maker's Mark and Spring waters on ice, well....maybe a little more than a few, and I'm in a reflective mood, so......

I peruse a few other forums pertaining to other vehicles I own, like, the Dodge Cummins Diesel forum, BMW Owners Motorcycle Forum, Subaru/Vanagon forum, and a few others, and I can honestly say that most of the Newbie posts posted on this forum wouldn't even garner an answer on most of them. And yet here.....there is always plenty of guys ready to jump in and share.....again....what they've learned the hard way.

This is really a group of genuinely nice guys. I salute you , and raise a glass to you.

And.....Happy Fathers Day!

fouillard13 · Jun 21, 2020

couldnt agree more!!! I was thinking the same thing as I read through this thread. TDIclub and the guys here are some of the friendliest, most knowledgeable and most willing to help that ive ever seen online. its one of the reasons I kept my VW/TDI. if it wasnt for this forum I woulda gotten rid of it by now. VW owes this forum a thank you!!!!

KLXD · Jun 21, 2020

turbocharged798 said:
There's also this little thing called rust and corrosion and flakes of rust from the pump head was ready to fall inside.
My car's a driver not a beauty queen.Its a shame my 21 year old 425K mile engine isn't spotless.

Not to mention the rust and dirt in the bore outside the o-ring that your new o-ring pushes into the pump if you don't completely remove the pump head and clean out. Even the gap between the pump body and the head has dirt that just spraying with brake cleaner isn't going to remove. Then you roll your new o-ring across it.

I think it's nuts to do that job without removing the pump head.

cman9898 · Jul 17, 2020

Powder Hound said:
If it is in runaway mode, it sounds like the little knob that sticks down out of the quantity adjuster is not in its proper hole.
On the pump shaft, there is a metal donut. That donut has a round hole in it (not just the one it slides on through the middle), but a hole in the side. The small knob from the QA needs to insert into that hole. If not, you have no control over the amount of fuel the pump is injecting. Missing that hole is, to me, about the only way you'd have a runaway condition.
Cheers,
PH

Does anyone have a picture of this tiny hole. I am a visual learner

cman9898 · Jul 28, 2020

Update project has been completed and car runs like new thanks everyone for their help!

csstevej · Jul 28, 2020

Thanks for reporting back........

fatmobile · Jul 28, 2020

Glad to hear it's running.
Sooo what was the problem?
I want to mention that I put a blade on the pump,
like the MK2s have stock.
So the power wire has a blade connector that can be pulled right off if you are in the engine bay and something goes wrong.
I'm so cheap I grab them off old sealed beam headlight and grind them more narrow.
Bolts right on.

csstevej · Jul 29, 2020

fatmobile said:
I'm so cheap I grab them off old sealed beam headlight and grind them more narrow.
Bolts right on.

Lol that’s not being cheap.....that’s being innovative!

HELP i fudged badly

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