2.0 TDI DSG random power loss

Hey everyone, I've been having a strange issue with my 2012 JSW TDI. The car is DSG and has had the dieselgate update. I originally posted this on VWVortex as I was having account issues on TDIClub. Any help is much appreciated!

(3 months ago) I was on the highway and while trying to pass a vehicle my car died temporarily. What happened was when the car went to downshift, it lost all power, the accelerator pedal was doing nothing. This lasted about 3 seconds and then the power came back but was running rough, this lasted about 5 seconds and then was back to normal. While the car was running rough there was a lot of smoke coming out the exhaust.

(3 months ago) UPDATE: Tried scanning the car with both a scan tool and VAGcom and no codes

(2 days ago) UPDATE: Car died again briefly on the highway. Approximately 5 minutes after getting fuel I was cruising on the highway, I was noticing that the car felt somewhat hesitant so I decided to investigate the matter by flooring it, the car revved up and kicked down a gear as per normal, but immediately died and held around 2500 rpm for a few seconds, while spewing smoke out the rear. It was night time so I couldn't tell the color of the smoke. A few seconds after this the car was back to normal, no CEL or anything.

Any ideas what this could of been? This is the second time it happened. Car has roughly 90,000 miles and it up to date on maintenance .

air in fuel. failing hpfp. only thing you can do if start recording data. then when it does it again you can see what it is.

Sounds like intercooler icing.

Where in Canada? What temperature? Do you use an fuel additive (water builds up in fuel over time)?


I agree it sounds like intercooler icing. Great thread here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=302863

DivineChaos said:

air in fuel. failing hpfp. only thing you can do if start recording data. then when it does it again you can see what it is.

Click to expand...

Maybe air somehow gets into the fuel system after fueling? No idea. Yea basically I am just going to wait for it to do it again and see if I notice any common trends. The car is still under the emissions warranty so I am hoping the issue will be covered.

dandywriter said:

Where in Canada? What temperature? Do you use an fuel additive (water builds up in fuel over time)?


I agree it sounds like intercooler icing. Great thread here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=302863

Click to expand...

I live in Vancouver so I doubt it's cold enough for intercooler icing, it was around 5 degrees Celsius (41 F) when it happened last. I do not use an additive, how and where does the water build up in the fuel? In my car or at the fuel station?

From the link you didn't read:

"Causes
This is a thermodynamic phenomenon caused by condensation and subsequent freezing or direct vapor deposition of water vapor as the turbo-compressed charge air is cooled through the IC and outlet charge hose assembly. Two main aspects of engine design contribute to the problem:

1. Low-pressure EGR is used to control NOx formation for emissions compliance, however, this recirculates water vapor rich exhaust back to the turbo and IC.
2. The IC design on these vehicles is very efficient, providing good heat transfer and economy (and good ice formation under proper conditions)

Symptoms
Ice

• Restricted Intake & Reduced Power
• LIMP Mode (flashing MIL’s, “Service Now” message)
• Engine will not turn over (complete ice obstruction of intake)
• Catastrophic engine damage (ice chip ingestion)

Water

• Engine will not turn over, "dead battery" starter action (due to hydraulic resistance in cylinder)
• Starter/electrical fires (due to starter overheating during attempts to start locked engine)
• Engine will turn over slow / not start (drowning)
• Engine will misfire, stumble, and run roughly upon starting (water ingestion)
• Engine will misfire, stumble and run roughly upon acceleration (water ingestion)
• Catastrophic engine damage (water ingestion – hydrolock)"

Water comes in warm during the day; cools at night; deposits water in the fuel. Worse in a high humidity environment. The additive - many of us use Power Service in the white bottle - gets rid of the water that inevitably builds up in the bottom of the fuel tank. The water in the intercooler (a separate issue), if it builds up, can hydrolock the engine.



Of the two issues, forget the additive and concentrate on the IC water. If you don't get rid of it (either drain the lower IC outlet charge hose periodically or have VW do the fix described in the Technical Service Bulletin in the link I gave you), there is no way the water can get out.



Here is a link to a youtube video showing how much water we're talking about here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Teyq-EdC_s .

Thanks dandy, seemed like 40-45* was always that temp when it would happen to me. Same symptoms, it would chug or almost die and then blow a ton of white smoke. I drilled my IC and didn’t happen again. I know drilling the IC is much debated, I’ve read all the threads about it before I decided to do it.
Op might be worth your time to read through the IC icing thread I learned a ton from it

Cut me some slack Dandy that's a >300 page thread. I did skim it and from what I've been reading it seems that people can still have issues after the TSB or even after an EGR delete.

I had ANOTHER power loss on the highway today at 8C and after draining my intercooler hose JUST LAST WEEK (maybe 1/4 cup of water came out).

I don't really know what to do, I still haven't thrown a code so I doubt VW will help (car is still in extended emissions warranty). I am leery of drilling a small hole in my intercooler pipe, I am going to do more reading about it and the similar issues the Ecoboosts have.

If I don't eventually find a solution this car will be replaced with a TSI lol.

Bradm said:

Thanks dandy, seemed like 40-45* was always that temp when it would happen to me. Same symptoms, it would chug or almost die and then blow a ton of white smoke. I drilled my IC and didn’t happen again. I know drilling the IC is much debated, I’ve read all the threads about it before I decided to do it.
Op might be worth your time to read through the IC icing thread I learned a ton from it

Click to expand...

i had a crank and crank scenario before. like the injectors were off. it spun over fast, hearing compression and no low compression spots.. after the third 15 sec crank it started ran a bit weird. (like an old motor loading up) shut it off, then it started right away and ran perfect. when i got home i pulled the ic pipes and got a tablespoon of water, then some grey slime. it happpended right around 40 deg.

UPDATE 12: I drilled a 1/16" hole in the charge pipe like shown in the YouTube video. Weather is rainy and floating around ~40F so we'll see what happens. Fingers crossed.

I agree, intercooler ‘icing’ or condensation buildup in the intercooler. I drilled a hole three or four years ago and didn’t have the problem again until after the ‘fix’. Best workaround short of a tune is to drive harder and use boost to blow it out the hole.

I've been having the stuttering symptom for a while now. Thought I was more immune being in VA as it doesnt get terribly cold here.

I just drilled mine this am.

It's bad enough when the water pours out when you break the seal on the coupler. However when it's running and the water continues to stream out of the hole it's pretty concerning.

http://imgur.com/gallery/gEMY2UM

If it causes problems down the road a screw should fix it.

For now it's a permadrain.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Over the summer my beetle stumbled a couple of different times when I accelerated harder than normal. I thought bad fuel or something, changed the fuel filter and kept on driving. I found the problem about 6 weeks ago when i drained 2.5 cups of water from the intercooler. The beetle is much peppier and no more stumble under hard acceleration. The beetle now has a cover over the lower grill. I’m in central North Carolina, so not as cold as some of you, but it does get humid.

I also thought mine was immune to intercooler icing for a second time since i had the cold weather kit installed 3 years ago. That didn’t fix it, so i’m going to drain the hose every 5,000 miles.

So I recently picked up a 2013 A3 with a CBEA and it gets a bad stumble when I leave my driveway in the morning. My sportwagen has a delete and tune and no longer stumbles on cold acceleration (out of the driveway).


I find that (with the stock A3) if I get some high RPM driving/acceleration right before I get home after work, I don't have the stumble in the morning. I must be accumulating just enough water to enable the car to start, but to interfere with it running when I get into boost.

Update 14: Had the same power loss issue today even after drilling the 1/16" hole in the charge pipe

-hole was drilled at bottom of charge pipe similar to the youtube video, about half a cup came out on startup so I assumed that was the issue.

-today when going to pass on the highway, I floored the car and as it kicked down a couple gears it immediately fell on it's face and lost all power for 2-3 seconds while spewing white-ish (with a hint of blue maybe) smoke/steam on the highway.

-I've heard of the drilled holes getting clogged but this has only been a bit over 2 weeks. Not sure what to do next as I am not throwing any codes. I am going to put the car on a hoist to check if the drain hole is clear but other than that I might just sell it.