Towing with DSG

I understand that while VW doesn't expressly recommend towing, I can get away with 1000 pounds with my DSG. I read somewhere that the ratings in Europe are for 2000 for the exact same vehicle. Is it really a bad idea to tow with a DSG? I have the Malone DSG tune if that makes a difference. I'm only looking to tow 1500-2000 pounds at the most. Primarily hay and grain on a single axle trailer. I'm also told by several trailer dealers that I don't need trailer brakes, but I don't know if this is true or not.

You are wrong on the Euro ratings.
The rating is 1500 to 1800 kilograms.
If you try to pull that weight in this country the earth will swap polarity and fling your car out into space. ( just kidding, but there is an ongoing argument on this subject)

Look in your owners manual. I thought that I read that the early DSG were rated for 1000#.

For my 2014 JSW TDI , it is 1000# for the 6MT and 0 for the DSG. The gas engine is rated for 2000# MT or AT which seems odd to me.

dgoodhue said:

Look in your owners manual. I thought that I read that the early DSG were rated for 1000#.

For my 2014 JSW TDI , it is 1000# for the 6MT and 0 for the DSG. The gas engine is rated for 2000# MT or AT which seems odd to me.

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I do remember seeing that, which I thought was odd as well. I'm wondering if it makes a difference that my DSG has been tuned, and I don't have the DPF anymore. Or is it all a matter of transmission cooling? I've towed before, just not with a VW, and I try to turn off overdrive.

I actually made a mistake when I bought my wife TDI. I thought it was rated to tow 2000#. I googled it before purchasing it and found 2000# but I didn't look into it further to find that the TDI was 1000#. I realize the problem 2 months after I bought it and read the manual.

I have a 1300# boat/trailer that I tow with it, it has about 150# of tongue weight. I assume the risk, most of my towing is less than 2 miles of back roads, but I do 2x 100 miles trip to put it in & out of winter storage. It tows better than my wife's prior vehicle (Toyota Highlander V6) that I used before. The brakes seem up to the task, but I haven't had to make any emergency maneuvers.

1500-2000# isn't insignificant. On my old Highlander, I went to make a stop for a red light. I was going 50mph and I didn't think I was going to have to slam on the brakes, maybe a little harder than normal. It was wet and I ended skidding half through the intersection. For me it was really eye opening for how much my braking distance increased. Fortunately it wasn't busy intersection and no one was stopped in front of me.

It isn't whether you can tow that much weight but should you tow at all. It will put additional wear on transmission and brakes. It will increase braking distance. It will change the handling characteristics of your car.

pkhoury said:

I do remember seeing that, which I thought was odd as well. I'm wondering if it makes a difference that my DSG has been tuned, and I don't have the DPF anymore. Or is it all a matter of transmission cooling? I've towed before, just not with a VW, and I try to turn off overdrive.

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Tuning your DSG and/or having a DPF are not at issue, nor is necessarily a case of transmission cooling.

VWNA has chosen to rate the car/transmission as not suitable for towing. They don't share their reasoning with us. Could be it was never tested/certified with the DOT/EPA/CARB. Could be that they want to keep warranty calls down. Whatever.

Other posts have said VW considers the NA market secondary, and diesel only a tiny portion of that. Testing with the government costs big money. My guess is they just didn't bother testing because of costs.

Is the european transmission different (or THAT different) from what is in NA? I doubt it.

So it is not a question of whether it can tow, or how much it can tow, or for how long it can tow with that load. What it is about is whether you feel you can substitute your judgement for that of VWNA and take the risk of voided warranty, and maybe the insurance company declining to cover an accident because of "off label" use of the vehicle.

Put a temp gauge on the tranny and clutch and tow away. Stop when you think the temp is too high (whatever that number may be).

frank

Any VW or for that matter any car in Europe must have a the trailer equipped with brakes over 750 KG.
The trailer should take care of itself on braking.
Of course the car has to be equipped with a brake controller or the trailer needs to be equipped with surge brakes.

fxk said:

Tuning your DSG and/or having a DPF are not at issue, nor is necessarily a case of transmission cooling.

VWNA has chosen to rate the car/transmission as not suitable for towing. They don't share their reasoning with us. Could be it was never tested/certified with the DOT/EPA/CARB. Could be that they want to keep warranty calls down. Whatever.

Other posts have said VW considers the NA market secondary, and diesel only a tiny portion of that. Testing with the government costs big money. My guess is they just didn't bother testing because of costs.

Is the european transmission different (or THAT different) from what is in NA? I doubt it.

So it is not a question of whether it can tow, or how much it can tow, or for how long it can tow with that load. What it is about is whether you feel you can substitute your judgement for that of VWNA and take the risk of voided warranty, and maybe the insurance company declining to cover an accident because of "off label" use of the vehicle.

Put a temp gauge on the tranny and clutch and tow away. Stop when you think the temp is too high (whatever that number may be).

frank

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redbarron55 said:

Any VW or for that matter any car in Europe must have a the trailer equipped with brakes over 750 KG.
The trailer should take care of itself on braking.
Of course the car has to be equipped with a brake controller or the trailer needs to be equipped with surge brakes.

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That's actually my next step - finding a good quality trailer with brakes. I actually need a trailer for my work on the ranch regardless, but ultimately towing with the JSW would save me a lot of time and trouble. I sifted down more google searches and did find others with the Golf CR platform and a DSG being able to tow heavier loads successfully, with brakes of course. I've towed with my mom's truck, and I can only imagine what having brakes must feel like, but it's really not that hard to monitor one's speed and slow down from 70 to an intersection.

As for brake controllers - is this something I could probably order from the UK/Europe?

pkhoury said:

That's actually my next step - finding a good quality trailer with brakes. I actually need a trailer for my work on the ranch regardless, but ultimately towing with the JSW would save me a lot of time and trouble. I sifted down more google searches and did find others with the Golf CR platform and a DSG being able to tow heavier loads successfully, with brakes of course. I've towed with my mom's truck, and I can only imagine what having brakes must feel like, but it's really not that hard to monitor one's speed and slow down from 70 to an intersection.

As for brake controllers - is this something I could probably order from the UK/Europe?

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Brake controllers are available for just about any vehicle here in the US. The JSW in Europe has certain functions built into the various control units that can aid in towing a trailer. There are threads on here somewhere. A guy here uses a euro Westfalia or Bosal hitch and I believe has gotten the control units working. Needless to say, the dealer in NA will be of no help getting the euro setup working.

Note the euro hitch has the additional capacity, but a 50mm ball, a different electrical connector for the trailer, and is NOT DOT approved. Caution if you go this route. Everything will seem fine until the circumstances go sideways and you need your insurance to pay for something.

The basic Euro trailer (small not transport) is mechanical surge brakes with dampers.
There are basically no electric brake controllers for small cars in Europe.
A brake controller can be added to the JSW and I have one that has a Teknosha P3 installed and a Westfalia hitch with 50 mm ball (1.968498") or about .003" smaller.
I never noticed any difference.
Since Westfalia invented the basic trailer hitch in the 1920 I would assume the 2" was copied from the 50 mm. but who knows?
I also installed the Westfalia trailer module so that the T-ESP would work properly, but then you still have to convert the European wiring scheme to the US which you would have to do anyway since you cannot just splice into the taillight wiring without causing problems.
There are threads on this is you search.
Some have no problems with the car towing, but you will hear a screeching sound from the detractors on using Euro ratings in this country.
Personally I tow a 16" Scamp that goes about 2600 lbs. (don't tell anybody.)
Also the DMF may see more wear when towing. I had to replace mine at about 220,000 miles. I think this is a wear item if you tow or not.
Never exceed your comfort rating. I am not recommending that you tow with your JSW in accordance with the US owner's manual or the Euro ratings.
This is a decision you have to consider for yourself. I have no way to know what the reason for the differences might be. If you asked a VW engineer you still would not know according to the current problems.......
Good luck and live long and prosper.

Granted, I've only towed a hand full of times, but my 2010 DSG pulls about 1000 lbs like it isn't back there. I have a Curt hitch, Harbor Freight 4x8 flatbed loaded with 2 dirt bikes, no trailer brakes and have no issues going up and down the hills of SE Ohio. I do shift manually while towing keeping rpm's between 2-3.5k.
There's a thread called 'show what you tow' I think; check it out, lots of guys tow a lot more than me.

fxk said:

Brake controllers are available for just about any vehicle here in the US. The JSW in Europe has certain functions built into the various control units that can aid in towing a trailer. There are threads on here somewhere. A guy here uses a euro Westfalia or Bosal hitch and I believe has gotten the control units working. Needless to say, the dealer in NA will be of no help getting the euro setup working.

Note the euro hitch has the additional capacity, but a 50mm ball, a different electrical connector for the trailer, and is NOT DOT approved. Caution if you go this route. Everything will seem fine until the circumstances go sideways and you need your insurance to pay for something.

Click to expand...

Is the hitch connection small enough where I couldn't use an existing ball attachment (not sure if it's called the tongue, but I don't know the proper name for it)? Or is that size smaller as well? I didn't know insurance companies insured trailers or covered towing, so I'd have to check on that anyways. All I know is registration would only be 5 bucks, since the trailer would be used exclusively for agriculture. I should see if it needs to carry insurance (never owned a trailer before obviously).

redbarron55 said:

The basic Euro trailer (small not transport) is mechanical surge brakes with dampers.
There are basically no electric brake controllers for small cars in Europe.
A brake controller can be added to the JSW and I have one that has a Teknosha P3 installed and a Westfalia hitch with 50 mm ball (1.968498") or about .003" smaller.
I never noticed any difference.
Since Westfalia invented the basic trailer hitch in the 1920 I would assume the 2" was copied from the 50 mm. but who knows?
I also installed the Westfalia trailer module so that the T-ESP would work properly, but then you still have to convert the European wiring scheme to the US which you would have to do anyway since you cannot just splice into the taillight wiring without causing problems.
There are threads on this is you search.
Some have no problems with the car towing, but you will hear a screeching sound from the detractors on using Euro ratings in this country.
Personally I tow a 16" Scamp that goes about 2600 lbs. (don't tell anybody.)
Also the DMF may see more wear when towing. I had to replace mine at about 220,000 miles. I think this is a wear item if you tow or not.

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, did you have the dealer replace this or an independent VW shop? How much was it? I even contemplated replacing the HPFP around the same time, just as preventive maintenance as well (which would roughly coincide with my next TB change, since I changed the first one early). And what are detractors?

Never exceed your comfort rating. I am not recommending that you tow with your JSW in accordance with the US owner's manual or the Euro ratings.
This is a decision you have to consider for yourself. I have no way to know what the reason for the differences might be. If you asked a VW engineer you still would not know according to the current problems.......
Good luck and live long and prosper.

Click to expand...

With your setup, does the trailer have surge brakes, e-brakes, or both? Or does the trailer need its own brake controller? I'm still leaning towards a trailer with e-brakes anyways, only since it's safer and I could use my mom's truck (4Runner) to tow heaver loads or stuff in my pasture (4WD) if need be, so that was always a consideration. I'll try to search the forum for other instructions, but this will obviously be well planned out; more so than my ill-fated ALH TDI purchase!

not2shabby said:

Granted, I've only towed a hand full of times, but my 2010 DSG pulls about 1000 lbs like it isn't back there. I have a Curt hitch, Harbor Freight 4x8 flatbed loaded with 2 dirt bikes, no trailer brakes and have no issues going up and down the hills of SE Ohio. I do shift manually while towing keeping rpm's between 2-3.5k.
There's a thread called 'show what you tow' I think; check it out, lots of guys tow a lot more than me.

Click to expand...

I think I've seen that one before - pretty amazing to see what people tow behind their TDIs. I personally don't want to use a Harbor Freight trailer. I thought about it, but for what I'm doing, I'm looking for a trailer with at least 14 or 15" wheels. I'm leaning more towards a 5x10, but since the Euro TDI is rated higher, I might be able to upsize to a 5x12 now... Could be good also if I wish to tow my kayak to the river (which is 14 feet long). I'm predicting my loads will be at least 800-1300 pounds.

I bought my 2013 Jetta TDI assuming I could tow with it, only to find out after I got it home and read the manual that it is not approved to tow anything.

Then I find out a buddy who bought a new 2013 or maybe 2014 Passat TDI, which has the same engine and transmission IS approved to tow. I think his is rated for either 1000, or maybe 1500 pounds.

Same engine, Same transmission, very similar cars. One is rated to tow, one isn't.

I put a hitch on mine anyways and tow my motorcycles with it. Ive not towed much over 1000 pounds but certainly close to a 1000, and no issues at all. Trailer brakes for this amount of weight isn't needed imo.

thinking of buying a tdi again, but can it tow?

I'm thinking of buying an 2012 A3 TDI with the idea to do a 10thousandish mile yearly towing a light teardrop trailer.

Has our understanding of how possible/allowable/safe/recommended changed over the last few years? Curious about some of you who have followed the Euro guidelines and kept it under 3klbs and towed anyway. DSG repurcussions?

@pkhoury how did your towing adventure go? Similar to the OP, I'm looking to tow about 1500-2000 lbs.

Thanks for any insights,

Ridwan

Shows how much I check my own threads.

Anyways, for redline_r - I have mechatronic issues from my DSG from the time to time. Primarily, it won't go into reverse unless I shift to park, shut off the car, restart, and then go back to reverse. But my 2010 JSW also has 250K on it, and I've mostly replaced it by my 2013 CPO JSW with a 02Q.

That being said, I've never had any problems while actually towing, and the most I've towed was about 4500 pounds, though I didn't take the car over 60mph (and I think I was in 4th or 5th). The gearing ratio is a lot different on the 02Q than DSG.

On a mk6 vehicle (and possibly a mk5), you do need the towing electronics to get a brake controller to work. Believe me, a brake controller makes a world of difference. Plus you really do need lighting to be legal.

I picked up a Westphalia 13 pin Euro controller from PF Jones. Not cheap, and I had help on the first time it was installed. After I swapped it to the 2013, it made more sense. It was like 3 or 4 wires that connected directly to the BCM, the module goes on the left hand rear side of the car (on my wagon, anyways), you add module 69 - Trailer to CAN gateway in VCDS, and that's pretty much it, aside from adapting the appropriate wires to your 7 pin round connector (mine is a combo 7 pin round/4 pin flat, though I only own like 3 trailers that have 4 pin flat connectors).

Fuel economy takes a hit. Expect 23-30mpg, depending on speed and payload. With a teardrop trailer, I wouldn't keep your hopes up in getting anywhere near 30mpg, unless you were going under 50mph.

pkhoury said:

Shows how much I check my own threads.

Anyways, for redline_r - I have mechatronic issues from my DSG from the time to time. Primarily, it won't go into reverse unless I shift to park, shut off the car, restart, and then go back to reverse. But my 2010 JSW also has 250K on it, and I've mostly replaced it by my 2013 CPO JSW with a 02Q.

That being said, I've never had any problems while actually towing, and the most I've towed was about 4500 pounds, though I didn't take the car over 60mph (and I think I was in 4th or 5th). The gearing ratio is a lot different on the 02Q than DSG.

On a mk6 vehicle (and possibly a mk5), you do need the towing electronics to get a brake controller to work. Believe me, a brake controller makes a world of difference. Plus you really do need lighting to be legal.

I picked up a Westphalia 13 pin Euro controller from PF Jones. Not cheap, and I had help on the first time it was installed. After I swapped it to the 2013, it made more sense. It was like 3 or 4 wires that connected directly to the BCM, the module goes on the left hand rear side of the car (on my wagon, anyways), you add module 69 - Trailer to CAN gateway in VCDS, and that's pretty much it, aside from adapting the appropriate wires to your 7 pin round connector (mine is a combo 7 pin round/4 pin flat, though I only own like 3 trailers that have 4 pin flat connectors).

Fuel economy takes a hit. Expect 23-30mpg, depending on speed and payload. With a teardrop trailer, I wouldn't keep your hopes up in getting anywhere near 30mpg, unless you were going under 50mph.

Click to expand...

I know this is an old post, but I would like to chime in anyway. I have a 2014 Golf TDI 6MT. I have the westfalia detachable tow bar and curt electrics (powered via direct battery connection and signaled via spliced 4-pin connection to the rear lights). I've towed my whole home with a 5x8 covered trailer when moving about 80 miles away. Obviously not all at once, but in four trips - took a week off and took my time with my family. Other background - I have a 2003 Polo TDI 5MT (75 horses!!!) overseas and it has a tow rating of 570K which is about 1260lbs non-braked trailer and 1000lbs braked. This is for a 1.4L 3cyl TDI engine mind you and smaller vehicle that weighs less than the golf.

My 14 Golf is rated at 1800KG with the manual and a braked trailer (whether electronic or surge). There are just a few factors differentiating my car from its european counterpart (since 2010-14 MY are built in Germany) and those are the headlights and tail lights, some encoding for the electronics, the light switch, and i think the inside bumper material (not sure how that works, but whatever). The DSG variant is listed at 1570KG which is 3500lbs. Is the car that different? Not in the slightest. Will a Malone tune do wonders for it (even without removing all the exhaust and/or scr wizardry? Absolutely. Even without it, I think you'll do fine in towing with it.

Now, everyone has to evaluate his needs and risk profile for putting equipment on his vehicle which may/may not conform to US standards. However, in the months of research I've done online, i have not seen anywhere the outright exclusion or inclusion of european tow bars and hitches from federal law. It literally took me 8 months before I pulled the trigger at PF Jones. States may be different, I'll give you that, but in MA, NH, and CT where I mostly operate, I haven't seen anything. Yes, towing puts stress on your vehicle. Think about this: so does your significant other and you still chose to be with them because of all the other stuff. i won't get into the legality at the state level on that one, lol.

great site to check out: http://www.towingcapacity.co.uk/car-make-model/volkswagen/. The base site lists so many other vehicles my m/m.