TDI into VR6 GLI

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
I know it is easier to buy a TDI running but when I am looking at a beautiful VR6 with a bad engine, a good low mileage TDI engine and a shop full of all the swap parts I need, I couldn't resist the challenge.
I am going to post surprises or issues through the slow build and stuff that may add to the other threads.
I had a complete donor car I pulled the wires out of but am only going to splice in the wires I need from the firewall plugs back. It looked simpler and cleaner to deal with for what I have to work with.
I am using a different approach than the wire diagram decoding method as I have physically traced every important wire to its landing point on both ends. I am doing this for 2 reasons. One I find it easier to not make mistakes when I am holding the real wire in my hands instead of looking at a drawing. The other is I think it is less labor than pulling out the entire harness inside the car.
All I have to do is land the TDI specific wires at their proper end point and I am good to go.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
2 noteworthy issues I have come across so far...
1. Contrary to posts I have read on the internet, the VR6 front brakes and hub fit the swap manual TDI front axles with no problem. The axles are different from the VR6 but every thing else lines up and works fine.
2. The car was a manual 6 speed and the TDI swap is a manual 5 speed. You would think the shifter cable set up would work but it doesn't. It was about 1/2" too short on the cables. So if you do this swap you need to swap out the shift tower with the TDI version.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
List of things to remember to pull from the donor car that are easy to forget and make life better when you have them...
1. Fuel lines from tank sump to the main lines under the car.
2. Fuel sump and fuel gauge sender with the old plug to splice into the wires.
The diesel set up has a little float with a check valve that is important to the system the gas engines do not use.
3. Bracket for the solenoids to hold them on the fire wall.
4. The snap on connectors with hoses from the heater core to the engine. The TDI uses a different angle on the connectors to route the hoses better.
5. The whole clutch slave and line back to the part that sticks out of the fire wall. The VR6 has a different configuration and parts.
6. The power steering pump hoses and reservoir are a little different configuration on the TDI.
7. The throttle pedal with the wires that go back to the plug.
8. Key and switch unless you do a work around. I am going to put the chip in close proximity to the pick up coil so I can use the original VR6 key and save a lot of lock swap labor.
9. Dash Cluster unless you do an IMMO delete.
10. ECU
11. Fuel tank unless you cut the filler tube block out with a soldering gun like it did.
12. The shift cable assembly as the 5 Speed has longer cables.
13. The inner cooler and all the hoses that go from turbo to the intake.
14. Fuel filter bracket.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
Everything is now swapped into the VR6 and ready to go except the front end cooling system and bumper. Though the job so far has been smooth and simple I would not recommend doing this unless you have the complete donor TDI to grab what you need when you need it.
Just about ready for the final challenge for the wire connections. I will try to post pictures if something is note worthy.
 

SparkyWagon

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Location
Hackettstown, nj
TDI
02 jetta wagon Tdi
About the key FOB if you have one and not just valet key. Just swap the vr6 key blade into the Tdi FOB body and it will work like normal.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
Thanks for the key tip. The key fob is pretty beat up on the donor car. unless i dig out the actual chip and swap that out i need another plan. I will try to do more pics on the wire conversion. I figured there are already many other good pictures and threads of part swapping and procedures. I got the dash out now so the challenge begins soon with the wires. It is way easier to see what i am working on and deal with stuff with the dash out. For those who have never taken a vw dash out it really is not that hard and beats banged up hands a sore neck and hurtting back getting to everything.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
It is good to know this works to extract the chip. the other reason i have for placing the donor key by the pickup coil is i can use both keys in the ignition with the vr6 rfid
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
Help needed

The wires are tracing out and making sense easier than I thought but one wire going to the cluster has me baffled.

It comes from the orange plug on the inside of the car and goes directly to pin number 11 on the blue plug. I am using the VR6 connector and find the slot is open that would make sense if this was the glow plug indicator light wire. However, the Bentley manual I have (goes to 2002) lists this pin as RPM signal on page 90-5. I see pin 13 in the book lists as glow plug indicator light but that already has a wire in it. What doesn't make sense is I am not seeing any indication of a glow plug light on the cluster sticky pin out on this forum. The actual wire diagram in the Bentley it shows it on 97-324 that it connects to t32/11 which is the RPM so that seems to be the only thing that makes sense and the other page is wrong.

Now for the real problem. I need a wire with a pin from a newer model MK4. What I found was the VR6 blue plug for the cluster uses crimped on pins on the wire and the older versions use the "push the wire in" to the stabs that crush through the insulation. If anyone has a spare newer style plug or will part with one wire with a pin let me know. Or the other option is to remove a wire I don't need from the cluster but am unsure which one with not being able to trust the pin out diagram.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
I found some of the plug wires changed colors at the junction of the plug so when I first looked at the project it seemed like I was going to be splicing many wires together. After reviewing the ALH pinout I found most followed the same color on the car harness I was connection up with. The only thing that was different on the T14a plug was the load reduction relay wire.
I have found VW likes to challenge us when we mix and match years. I found the Immobilizer plug to the pickup coil is different than the one from the TDI to the one on the VR6. But, a little work with the knife and it plugs in fine now. I just had to remove the locking tab.
A few more hours and it should be ready to start.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
Finally had a chance to hook up the 109 relay and it started right up. I ended up soldering splicing on to another factory lug with the big blue wire and the big red wire and hooking these up to the lugs under the relay bank. When the VR6 409 fuel pump relay is removed the blue wire landing point makes a nice splice into the 109 blue relay wire. That way I didn't have to cut into any of the existing car chassis wires. And for the record the small wire left follows up to the blue plug connector. When this wire is pulled down from the ECU, the ground the circuit is complete, pulling in the relay coil that is already powered from the big red wire source. When the coil pulls in, the blue wire has power to energize the rest of the circuit to the fuel pump. The wire diagram in the sticky also shows how it works but sometimes it is easier to just look at the wires and put them where they belong.

It still has a way to go to put stuff back in right and check it all out but the biggest surprise so far as been how easy it has been once I started connecting the obvious wires and moving to the more complicated ones. I actually used far less than I imagined, of the wire loom that I pulled apart on the inside of the car but it was well worth the effort just finding out where everything went and how it was all connected.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
Need ideas for a solution

Here is the problem. After everything is wired up and I start the car I find the power windows do not work but the locks work. The windows worked before the conversion but now will only work all of them if the key is turned in the door lock and held. After double checking everything and even trying another control module I find the can bus wires from the module go to the green plug on the instrument cluster. I decided to put the VR6 cluster back in for a try. Success! Now the windows work again but of course the engine dies because of the immobilizer.
Any ideas of how to make things work? I have thought about pulling the electronics out of the VR6 cluster and just wiring in the part to make the windows work. I have thought about ordering an immo delete and using the VR6 cluster. As far as I can tell the older TDI cluster I am trying to use is incompatible with the car wiring system as it stands. I really want to keep the wire systems as they are because it has all the heated seats and stuff I don't want to loose.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
OK, finally the project is back in the shop to finish the car up. The window problem is solved by getting a new tdi cluster that matches the car year rather than the old wire harness. I had it recoded to the older ECU and all is fine. Then I find the engine keeps throwing an open/short code in the boost control system. After chasing all the wires down and checking everything I finally determined the ECU was the problem. I opened up the ECU and sure enough I find one of the circuits on the board is burned out and opened up. I re-soldered the connection back together and now all is good. Who knows what someone did to the car I pulled it out of. The car looked so bad when I parted it out I think it tops any mess I have ever seen. I think the engine had every code it could throw out and still run. That was why I didn't bother to clear stuff up.
Thanks for all your help on this project.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
OK, finally the project is back in the shop to finish the car up. The window problem is solved by getting a new tdi cluster that matches the car year rather than the old wire harness. I had it recoded to the older ECU and all is fine. Then I find the engine keeps throwing an open/short code in the boost control system. After chasing all the wires down and checking everything I finally determined the ECU was the problem. I opened up the ECU and sure enough I find one of the circuits on the board is burned out and opened up. I re-soldered the connection back together and now all is good. Who knows what someone did to the car I pulled it out of. The car looked so bad when I parted it out I think it tops any mess I have ever seen. I think the engine had every code it could throw out and still run. That was why I didn't bother to clear stuff up.
Thanks for all your help on this project.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
I will try to get some pictures in the future. Right now the weather is so bad and cold.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
It has been a while but I am finally ready to look at the last of the issues and put this car on the road.
The problem I am trying to chase down is why I keep getting the following code -
18009 - Relay for Subbly Voltage Terminal 30 (J317)
P1606 - 36-00 Implausible signal.
The car starts and runs great but the code reappears almost every time I start the car. It never comes on while the car is running. Any ideas? I thought maybe I wired something up wrong but it seems correct.
I did have an issue with the ECU having a burned out connection internally so maybe something else is damaged in the ECU?
 
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