Chevy Cruze Diesel a direct competitor to the Jetta TDI

XtremeRevolution said:

Nice forum you have here by the way. A few VW/Import elitists, but that's to be expected. We have some hardcore Chevy fanboys over on CruzeTalk as well.

Name's Andrei by the way, and I'm the Administrator of CruzeTalk.com as well as the author of XtremeRevolution.net. I have many direct contacts inside GM in various departments from PR, to communications management, to senior engineering. I am not employed by GM, but I can get information, which brings me to this site.

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Andrei,
Welcome to the site. It will be good to hear from a different more informed source on the Cruze. I hope that other manufacturers that jump on the diesel band wagon will be as willing to support their products. I know you said your not a GM employee. That was more a general comment.

While I have no interest in a new car at this time, I will be watching how the Cruze diesel performs over the next few years. What many of us would really like to see is the new Colorado diesel offered in North America. can you pull any strings on getting that done?

Sbeghan said:

As an aside, why are the HPFPs on common rails driven by the timing belt? Couldn't they be moved to the serpentine belt or a separate accessory belt?...

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The HPFP on any TDi is driven either by the timing belt or the timing chain because it has to deliver fuel to each piston, synchronized with the crankshaft, and because of the high pressures of fuel delivery in diesel engines (the fuel is delivered to the piston at the same pressure as top dead center compression http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine#Fuel_delivery).

The serpentine belt is only for accessories, such as power steering, power brakes, air conditioning and alternator.

I know that GM used to be Opel in Europe, but VW has the edge on diesels here in America.

However, the more diesel cars get sold, the better it will be for us VW TDi owners (more fuel depots, more diesel experienced mechanics, etc).

It would be interesting to see a diesel Malibu.

It will be even more interesting to see a resurrected Ford Taurus wagon with a native diesel engine.

Kruger said:

Is this true? Is my '13 JSW eligible for a tax credit too?

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No, it isn't built by Government Motors

Andrei, Bug the GM brass for a 1/2 ton Chevy and GMC truck... The 4.5L Duramax is ready to go, get them to pull the trigger and put it into production. Especially now that Chrysler has announced the Ram 1500 will feature a diesel, GM needs one in their line-up as well!!!

kjclow said:

Andrei,
Welcome to the site. It will be good to hear from a different more informed source on the Cruze. I hope that other manufacturers that jump on the diesel band wagon will be as willing to support their products. I know you said your not a GM employee. That was more a general comment.

While I have no interest in a new car at this time, I will be watching how the Cruze diesel performs over the next few years. What many of us would really like to see is the new Colorado diesel offered in North America. can you pull any strings on getting that done?

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I don't have a whole lot of influence in GM with regard to decisions on upcoming vehicles, but I will certainly mention that there is great interest in something of that nature next time I talk to my technology communications contact.

TDI2000Zim said:

I know that GM used to be Opel in Europe, but VW has the edge on diesels here in America.

However, the more diesel cars get sold, the better it will be for us VW TDi owners (more fuel depots, more diesel experienced mechanics, etc).

It would be interesting to see a diesel Malibu.

It will be even more interesting to see a resurrected Ford Taurus wagon with a native diesel engine.

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This is only my personal opinion, but VW only has the edge on diesels here in America because it is the only company in America that has been selling an affordable passenger diesel. That's why the Cruze Diesel is such a big deal. Ford specifically said that they are interested in producing diesels, but that they will not be the first domestic car maker to release one. Expect them to follow up with a diesel of their own very soon after the Cruze Diesel begins to sell.

Chris Tobin said:

Andrei, Bug the GM brass for a 1/2 ton Chevy and GMC truck... The 4.5L Duramax is ready to go, get them to pull the trigger and put it into production. Especially now that Chrysler has announced the Ram 1500 will feature a diesel, GM needs one in their line-up as well!!!

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I recall reading a lot about that 4.5L Duramax engine. I was in a conversation with my technology communications contact at the Chicago Auto Show on media day and it was mentioned that they don't currently have any plans for it. However, take that with a grain of salt, as GM is very good at keeping big news a secret until they are ready for it to go public.

I believe that if the Cruze Diesel is remotely successful, that you will see the 4.5L Duramax in coming years. GM expects 10% of Cruze sales to be Diesels, and given the fuel economy numbers it produces and the cost of anything that comes close to that, even in a hybrid, I think they will reach and exceed that mark. The difficulty is getting people to see that Diesel can be even cleaner burning than gasoline, because all that most people really know about diesels these days is semi trucks barreling down the road with black smoke blowing out of the stacks. They have the challenge of re-educating the public on what Diesels are capable of, and I believe that if they are successful, that shift in public perception will translate to better sales and development for the TDI as well.

XtremeRevolution said:

I didn't come here to answer questions; I came here to answer any that people might have. That said, I'll take some time.......

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Uhm ....... okay. I disagree with "your facts", but that doesn't matter in the big scheme of things. The market will ultimately decide, as it did before with GM and Microsoft and so it will again. Good luck ......

Oberkanone said:

XtremeRevolution[Illinois State Law states that DRLs are required any time it isn't sunny, which includes overcast/cloudy, rainy, or snowy days.]

DRL's are not required, headlights are.



EPA mpg for Cruze Eco is 28 city 33 combined 42 highway for the manual and lower for the automatic. Amazing that you exceed EPA mpg by such a large margin, and in the Chicago area to boot. Almost unbelievable.

Existence of Cruze Eco with similar mpg to Cruze diesel and lower price makes it difficult to justify buying the diesel Cruze. Margin of difference in mpg with Jetta lineup between gas and diesel make the choice much easier.

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Thanks for the correction on the headlights.

I don't know of a single member on CruzeTalk with an Eco Manual that does not significantly exceed the EPA ratings, calculated at the pump. You may have read that our driver information center is a bit optimistic in the fuel economy averages, so I feel the need to mention that the numbers I mentioned earlier were calculated at the pump. On my longest highway trip, I calculated an ~85% split for highway driving and achieved just over 49mpg calculated at the pump, driving 62-65mph with occasional A/C use. the other 15% was used driving around town in Detroit.

Here's where I believe the Diesel will shine, and this is just my suspicion so don't take it as fact. The Cruze Eco Automatic is rated for 39mpg highway, which is a mere 1mpg more than the Cruze 1lt/2lt/LTZ. There is no increase in city fuel economy according to EPA. Keep in mind, we're talking about a weight decrease, LRR tires on lightened, forged alloy wheels, and a significant aero package. Is that really worth just 1mpg? Real-world testing shows that it's worth far more. Eco Automatic drivers consistently average 41-44mpg in all-highway trips at sane speeds.

Given that the Cruze Diesel has an improved version of the same aero package that is available on the Eco, I would expect it to exceed the TBD EPA estimates by a significant margin. The reason why this is a big deal is because it's an automatic. Let me explain.

It's a domestic automatic, that easily has the capacity to achieve over 42mpg on the highway, at the price point of a Prius, while offering a much better driving experience, a much better appearance (let's be honest, the Prius looks like a wedge of cheese), and MUCH more power. For those who will be interested in primarily highway driving, the Cruze Diesel will chip away some hybrid sales. That's a big deal. To me, the biggest deal is that if this is even remotely successful and comes even close to GM's expectations (around 10% of Cruze sales), it will make it clear to all auto manufacturers that passenger Diesels have a market in the US and you will find a significant market saturation with diesels similar to what we have seen in recent years with small displacement turbocharged engines.

Scott_Greer said:

No, it isn't built by Government Motors

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There's no denying that that GM made some poor decisions in the past and produced some sub-par vehicles, but its latest offerings are anything but sub-par. GM has sent me a few vehicles for review for a week at a time, including a Cruze LTZ, a Malibu LTZ, and a Suburban they just dropped off this morning, and I can honestly say that, compared to vehicles produced before GM's "bailout," I am very impressed. Keep in mind, it takes 2-3 years for a vehicle to be produced, from inception to the showroom floor.

This is all beside the obvious political discussion, where it can be argued that the "bailout" was necessary to prevent very serious foreseen and unforeseen consequences. But, I digress.

TDI2000Zim said:

The HPFP on any TDi is driven either by the timing belt or the timing chain because it has to deliver fuel to each piston, synchronized with the crankshaft, and because of the high pressures of fuel delivery in diesel engines (the fuel is delivered to the piston at the same pressure as top dead center compression http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine#Fuel_delivery).

The serpentine belt is only for accessories, such as power steering, power brakes, air conditioning and alternator.

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No.
A common rail diesel pressurizes a manifold and the injectors fire when the ECU directs them to.

I don't know why a serpentine belt couldn't be used to drive an HPFP, but am fine with the timing belt or chain doing the job.

Second Turbo said:

> My understanding is that it is not the same Bosch fuel pump used in the TDI.

Precisely what make and model is probably less significant than:
What lubricates the pump?....

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The high stress areas inside a HPFP are lubricated by the fuel.

XtremeRevolution said:

It doesn't use a CP4.1

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So what does it use?

The real success on any car maker's offerings models with a diesel option in any numbers will rely on CAFE holding fast on the coming increases to the target of ~54 mpgUS by ~2025. If this pressure is removed like it was in 1986 it will be pooooof in a cloud of smoke as they all are dropped from the US market again like 1986.

The real point seeing if any of these diesel powered options will have staying power here will show up around 2017. This is when CAFE really starts to bite into the legally allowed sales lower mpg company offerings minimum numbers. Every auto maker will start be required to sell some versions with higher mpg diesel power to meet that years in law increases in CAFE. This is also the first time under the current regime when the first a couple of set in law evaluations of where we are in terms of meeting the set goals today.

If the government holds fast on hitting the targets of today every auto makers is likely to have diesel power in their line up by 2018. If the target date is adjusted by heavy lobbying against CAFE who knows what we will be offered.

XtremeRevolution said:

I don't have a whole lot of influence in GM with regard to decisions on upcoming vehicles, but I will certainly mention that there is great interest in something of that nature next time I talk to my technology communications contact.



This is only my personal opinion, but VW only has the edge on diesels here in America because it is the only company in America that has been selling an affordable passenger diesel. That's why the Cruze Diesel is such a big deal. Ford specifically said that they are interested in producing diesels, but that they will not be the first domestic car maker to release one. Expect them to follow up with a diesel of their own very soon after the Cruze Diesel begins to sell.



I recall reading a lot about that 4.5L Duramax engine. I was in a conversation with my technology communications contact at the Chicago Auto Show on media day and it was mentioned that they don't currently have any plans for it. However, take that with a grain of salt, as GM is very good at keeping big news a secret until they are ready for it to go public.

I believe that if the Cruze Diesel is remotely successful, that you will see the 4.5L Duramax in coming years. GM expects 10% of Cruze sales to be Diesels, and given the fuel economy numbers it produces and the cost of anything that comes close to that, even in a hybrid, I think they will reach and exceed that mark. The difficulty is getting people to see that Diesel can be even cleaner burning than gasoline, because all that most people really know about diesels these days is semi trucks barreling down the road with black smoke blowing out of the stacks. They have the challenge of re-educating the public on what Diesels are capable of, and I believe that if they are successful, that shift in public perception will translate to better sales and development for the TDI as well.

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Dodge didn't announce the Ram 1500 diesel until after the CAS so GM probably did not know about it. Hopefully they will pull the trigger on the 4.5L Dmax now and put it into production and maybe even have them on the lots before the Dodge. Everything is done, they just need to commit to put them into production. I spoke with the GM truck guys at the last HD launch and they said it is all done and sitting on the shelf ready to go. Hopefully the Ram news will light a fire under them to put it on the lots!!!

I would love a Chevy Silverado 1500 with the 4.5L Duramax!!! It would instantly become the #1 1/2-ton truck for fuel economy, torque, towing capacity and several other categories!!!

Oberkanone said:

When you need a spare on a saturday night, in the winter, no auto dealers open, no tire dealers open, not so much as a Walmart or Kmart with tires within 50 miles, no way to get a tire until monday and your stuck on the side of the road with your family waiting for roadside service (tow) for over 3 hours hoping some drunk or tired driver does not kill you, there is great value placed on a spare tire.
This is not a hypothetical situation, I experienced this. Our VW has a full size spare, unfortunately I was not driving the TDI.

For myself a spare tire is mandatory in a general use vehicle. I don't expect one in a Corvette, I do expect one in Cruze.

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...and I had a tire failure with a car that had a full spare, but in a location dangerous enough on a busy freeway that I assessed the dangers to my wife and me and decided not to mess with the spare at all. I drove on the flat tire and rim to the next exit, and was quite happy to pay for both a new tire AND a rim to be safe and far away from dangerous traffic.

There are lots of situations where a spare tire is not so much of a wonder solution.


Back on topic, while the final stage of a HPFP is always fuel lubricated, the design can be such at the low pressure stage and mechanical assembly actuation components can either be oil lubricated or fuel lubricated, but in the case of the latter, the mechanical design must still respect the lubricating film shear force that the medium (oil or fuel) must withstand. Arguably, the CP4.1 design for VWoA didn't leave much margin for reduced fuel lubricity and/or decreased viscosity. A comparison between 3.1/3.2 and the 4.1 designs show the issue inherent with the 4.1's non-captured single roller/piston design.

It seems as though perhaps some of the GM engineers may have taken a sideways glance at the issues VW's was having with a marginal design specification to avoid use of the same fundamental design.

Regards
D.

Oberkanone said:

Auto headlights are not preferred and neither are buttons galore if I have a choice.

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I 'EFFING HATE not having auto headlights, especially now that the Passat does have it.

In the past three years I've driven the Jetta, I've killed the battery 5 times. Three of which were in the first year from not being used to not having auto-off headlights. These last two were only in the past couple months due to the Passat breaking my headlight switch habits.

DnA Diesel said:

It seems as though perhaps some of the GM engineers may have taken a sideways glance at the issues VW's was having with a marginal design specification to avoid use of the same fundamental design.

Regards
D.

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I got a pretty good smirk from the lead engineer for all GM small cars when I mentioned the fuel pump. This car has been in progress for at least 2 years now. They noticed.

JM Popaleetus said:

I 'EFFING HATE not having auto headlights, especially now that the Passat does have it.

In the past three years I've driven the Jetta, I've killed the battery 5 times. Three of which were in the first year from not being used to not having auto-off headlights. These last two were only in the past couple months due to the Passat breaking my headlight switch habits.

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The Cruze automatically cuts off power to all electronics if you happen to leave headlights or any accessories on or plugged in after you have left the car for too long, leaving enough power to turn the engine over. No joke, I can leave my headlights on, all of my interior lights, and a phone charging in the car when I leave and lock the car, and I'll come back with all of those lights off and the phone no longer charging, and be able to still start the car.

VeeDubTDI said:

So what does it use?

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When I know, I'll be sure to report back and let you guys know. My speculation is that it's a GM-specific pump as it's driven by the timing belt. I've asked GM for additional information on this.

Chris Tobin said:

Dodge didn't announce the Ram 1500 diesel until after the CAS so GM probably did not know about it. Hopefully they will pull the trigger on the 4.5L Dmax now and put it into production and maybe even have them on the lots before the Dodge. Everything is done, they just need to commit to put them into production. I spoke with the GM truck guys at the last HD launch and they said it is all done and sitting on the shelf ready to go. Hopefully the Ram news will light a fire under them to put it on the lots!!!

I would love a Chevy Silverado 1500 with the 4.5L Duramax!!! It would instantly become the #1 1/2-ton truck for fuel economy, torque, towing capacity and several other categories!!!

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I think a 4.5L Duramax would sell well. Last I heard, they were getting 25mpg average out of one in a light pickup. With 350hp and 500+ lb-ft, that's something to write home about.

XtremeRevolution said:

At least GM is using an Aisin-Warner transmission, which is generally known to be very reliable.
Let me know if you have other questions.

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I think that if the Jetta TDI is the target comp for the Cruze diesel, it really needs to come out of the gate with a manual trans as well as the auto. I do hope the the Cruze is a success as well as some of the diesel offerings coming from Mazda and the Chrysler group. I just don't see it happening unless the models/options/trims compare closer to an already successful brand like VW.

Mcgink said:

I think that if the Jetta TDI is the target comp for the Cruze diesel, it really needs to come out of the gate with a manual trans as well as the auto. I do hope the the Cruze is a success as well as some of the diesel offerings coming from Mazda and the Chrysler group. I just don't see it happening unless the models/options/trims compare closer to an already successful brand like VW.

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TDIClub and other auto-enthusiast sites represent a single-digit percentage of buyers.

There is a reason the Cruze-TD is automatic, and that's because ~95% of automobile sales in the USA are with automatics.

Heck, just doing a Cars.com search for new Jetta TDI's in the United States shows 6933 DSG-equipped and only 1008 manual-equipped cars. Yes I realize this is a very rough metric, but it does give us an idea of what VW/Dealers expect to sell.

tditom said:

The high stress areas inside a HPFP are lubricated by the fuel.

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yup, all brands of passenger-car HPFP function this way.

JM Popaleetus said:

TDIClub and other auto-enthusiast sites represent a single-digit percentage of buyers.
There is a reason the Cruze-TD is automatic, and that's because ~95% of automobile sales in the USA are with automatics.

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I get it.
When the Cruze diesel comes out, I'll take one out and give it a propper flogging . And then, Not buy one.

JM Popaleetus said:

There is a reason the Cruze-TD is automatic, and that's because ~95% of automobile sales in the USA are with automatics.

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Ding, ding, ding!!!

Cup holders and vanity mirrors are more important to US market

XtremeRevolution said:

I can leave myphone charging in the car when I leave and lock the car

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#1 dislike about my Jetta is the lighter ports losing power when you turn the car off. I need to hard wire one. It's nice to be able to leave a phone charging in the car.

Yes, but the Eco, which probably appeals to a similar audience, is available with a manual, correct?

Otherwise it does seem that GM is going the same route as almost every other manufacturer and only offering manual transmissions on the entry-level models of its smallest engined cars. Only BMW and VW seem to be bucking that trend, and not that well. Sad.

IBW, you are correct. But remember that GM is marketing the Cruze Diesel as a high-end model that is economical, not just an eco model... There is a big difference. While some of the bells and whistles they include will not be for everyone, I'm sure it is a mix that the 95%ers will be very happy with.

Also with an automatic that performs well and does what it is supposed to, when it is supposed to it is acceptable to let the car row the gears for you. In high traffic areas like California and New York City a manual trans is not real fun, especially with a performance clutch that requires additional effort. Remember that ONE of the reasons that most TDI owners prefer a manual is because the automatics in the VWs are so prone to failure!!! If VW made a solid reliable automatic (like I am told the new ones are) in the past then the demand for a manual may not be as strong... In other words, VW created the strong demand for manual transmissions in the TDIs by selling TDIs with such a weak and failure-prone automatic in the past, that savvy TDI purchasers are now conditioned to avoid the automatic like the plauge!!!

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Yes, but the Eco, which probably appeals to a similar audience, is available with a manual, correct?

Otherwise it does seem that GM is going the same route as almost every other manufacturer and only offering manual transmissions on the entry-level models of its smallest engined cars. Only BMW and VW seem to be bucking that trend, and not that well. Sad.

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Exactly my point earlier. The Eco has a 6 speed manual and isn't as loaded as the other versions. Making only a flagship version of the diesel that is loaded and a high sticker won't do what this car could do. Namely, provide a nice low cost option to get people into diesels without having them priced to the point you can get something much larger at the same dealership for the same money and not that much of a penalty on mileage.

Example being, I think most of us get somewhere around 40 to 45 mpg mixed driving out of our manual tranny TDI's, right? My 99.5 gets 50+ but it's not stock, every VW diesel I've owned going back to my 1.6 Rabbits got 45 mixed mpg. What do you guys with the automatics get? Every time I see a autobox TDI FS on CL they are talking about 30's and low 40's in mpg.

The 2011 Malibu I bought with the 4 cylinder had mid 20's city and 33 or 34 highway on the sticker and that's not too far off what we are getting now. I looked at Cruzes at the time because we really wanted a manual transmission and they were much smaller and pretty much a wash on price with the Malibu (before the diesel option add on), and the Impala for that matter. So we got the Malibu.

If you are shopping a Chevy dealer and you can either buy a Cruze diesel automatic that gets say 33 city and 40 highway or a Malibu that gets 25 and 35 and will hold 5 people and luggage for less money, what are you going to get? Unless you are a diehard diesel head, you're getting the Malibu. Now let's say the Cruze is an ECO diesel with a 6 speed that gets 40 city and 50 highway and it's less than the Malibu.

That's a much more attractive option. There is nothing out there in the market like that right now and this is how I see the flagship diesel Cruze playing out. GM will miss a lot of the potential of the market with this strategy and once again, this will "prove" that the US market will not accept diesels. Everyone will again blame the 350 diesel GM bombed on back in the 80's even though I've seen those with 300k on them too.

Just my .02 on how this will go, I'm wrong on a daily basis and hope to be wrong about this as well. I want this car to succeed, I've spent too much time in Europe wishing all the diesels there were over here not to want this to work out but the flagship comment worries me.

And Andrei, if GM doesn't know where to find a manual tranny that can handle the output of a diesel, they shoud try Getrag or whoever builds transmissions for the Cummins trucks. I have a Getrag 5 speed manual in my 92 Dodge Cummins that has hauled that heavy truck around for 270k miles carrying countless loads of firewood I cut to to heat my house. There are options out there, I'm sure of it. GM needs to build the manual and they/we will come. I personally don't understand why anyone would buy a diesel automatic and give up the mpg but that's just me.

Chris Tobin said:

Also with an automatic that performs well and does what it is supposed to, when it is supposed to it is acceptable to let the car row the gears for you. In high traffic areas like California and New York City a manual trans is not real fun, especially with a performance clutch that requires additional effort. Remember that ONE of the reasons that most TDI owners prefer a manual is because the automatics in the VWs are so prone to failure!!! If VW made a solid reliable automatic (like I am told the new ones are) in the past then the demand for a manual may not be as strong... In other words, VW created the strong demand for manual transmissions in the TDIs by selling TDIs with such a weak and failure-prone automatic in the past, that savvy TDI purchasers are now conditioned to avoid the automatic like the plauge!!!

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I don't agree, at least not entirely. When I bought my first TDI the automatic gave up significant performance, noise level, and FE (up to 10 MPG) to the manual. Despite what the EPA number say DSGs still give up about 10% to the 6-speed manual in real use and cost more to buy and maintain. This is true of most automatics, not just VWs.

And there are plenty of us that don't mind driving manual transmission cars in traffic. For the first 5 years of its life I commuted to Boston daily in IBW: 32 mile drive which took between 30 and 90 minutes, sometimes more. When it takes 40 minutes to drive 9 miles on a limited access highway I think it's fair to say you're in traffic. A manual transmission diesel is one of the easiest cars to drive in heavy traffic. Lots of engine braking so you can limit brake use, and if you leave it in 2nd it'll go from a walking speed up to 30 MPH with no problems. Pretty easy.

Saying you need an automatic to drive in traffic is like saying you need AWD to drive in the snow. Not necessarily the case.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I don't agree, at least not entirely. When I bought my first TDI the automatic gave up significant performance, noise level, and FE (up to 10 MPG) to the manual. Despite what the EPA number say DSGs still give up about 10% to the 6-speed manual in real use and cost more to buy and maintain. This is true of most automatics, not just VWs.

And there are plenty of us that don't mind driving manual transmission cars in traffic. For the first 5 years of its life I commuted to Boston daily in IBW: 32 mile drive which took between 30 and 90 minutes, sometimes more. When it takes 40 minutes to drive 9 miles on a limited access highway I think it's fair to say you're in traffic. A manual transmission diesel is one of the easiest cars to drive in heavy traffic. Lots of engine braking so you can limit brake use, and if you leave it in 2nd it'll go from a walking speed up to 30 MPH with no problems. Pretty easy.

Saying you need an automatic to drive in traffic is like saying you need AWD to drive in the snow. Not necessarily the case.

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Amen to all that, diesels are as painless in traffic as a manual can be.

I can't drive automatics, I did mean to type "can't" instead of "won't". I've tried buying automatic versions of vehicles I can't find in manual versions and I always get up getting rid of them.

In the case of the DSG, one of the guys on our web site had a Jetta TDI DSG that VW couldn't fix, they ended up taking it back and giving him a manual tranny. That's not the only problem we've heard of with the DSG among the membership but it is the only buyback I know of.

Only problem except for almost every dual mass flywheel in DSG-equipped '06 TDIs failing. Jury's still out on the newer cars, but I suspect the new flywheels are better.

In fairness, the DMFs in manual transmission cars fail, too, especially the '05.5 and '06s.

Scott_Greer said:

#1 dislike about my Jetta is the lighter ports losing power when you turn the car off. I need to hard wire one. It's nice to be able to leave a phone charging in the car.

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While I agree that this is a nice function and wish it still worked that way on the newer models, it can also be a fire hazard if the phone battery or charger get too hot. I used this as a main way for work to not follow me into the house. If the phone was charging in the car, then I can't answer it after hours.