'15 "new" TDIs and pink elephant

r11 · Apr 17, 2017

Will the owner collect the 1/2 of the "fix money" when they come in for Part II of the fix ?

DanB36 · Apr 17, 2017

Unlikely--since those cars weren't registered to anyone, they aren't Eligible Vehicles, so their owners aren't part of the class.

k1xv · Apr 17, 2017

They are going to have to do something to assure that buyers come back for phase 2 of the fix.

Maybe, even if you are a cash buyer, you will not get a title in your name until Phase 2 is completed.

gearheadgrrrl · Apr 17, 2017

This may be why VW is pushing the lease and $5k rebate with 0% financing offers... They want to hold title to the cars.

Mark_J · Apr 17, 2017

But if I were to purchase one, I would have to finance it for a couple of months and then I would be able to pay it off. But after talking to my insurance agent, if I paid $30,000.00+ for a 2015 Passet SEL Premium and got into an accident and totaled the car not long after the purchase, I would be lucky to get $23,000.00 from insurance. I know all vehicles loose some value once you drive them off of the lot, but these are over 2 year old cars. Also the urea only has a shelf life of a year and after that it starts to crystallize.

IndigoBlueWagon · Apr 17, 2017

VW staff we've talked to say that states can deny registration on the never-titled '15s if the second part of the fix isn't completed. Unlike the cars that were in owners hands when the scandal started, these cars are subject to being compliant to remain on the road.

gearheadgrrrl · Apr 17, 2017

Just got turned down for VW financing...

As expected, and thus the deal is dead. Why would VW make such a boneheaded move as to refuse the $5k incentive if I pay cash? Makes one wonder if they're trying to hold title on the vehicles so they can yank them back if we don't submit them for the final fix. But one could pay off the loan after 3 months and get title though, but maybe 1% of buyers will do that.

SSmike1 · Apr 17, 2017

I want to buy one of the 2015's for sale at dealers! How do I find the warranty info for these cars? I hear it is 165K miles and 11 years? is there a link?
thank you

GoFaster · Apr 17, 2017

Why don't you call your local dealer and ask??

k1xv · Apr 17, 2017

gearheadgrrrl said:
As expected, and thus the deal is dead. Why would VW make such a boneheaded move as to refuse the $5k incentive if I pay cash? Makes one wonder if they're trying to hold title on the vehicles so they can yank them back if we don't submit them for the final fix. But one could pay off the loan after 3 months and get title though, but maybe 1% of buyers will do that.

The only reason why they can sell a "partially fixed" car today is if they have a mechanism to assure the buyer will bring the car back for Phase 2 when the hardware becomes available.

Otherwise, they would not be able to offer any 2015 cars for sale until the entire fix were performed.

IndigoBlueWagon · Apr 17, 2017

Since you can pay off the lease or loan anytime (some are saying after a minimum of 3 months) then you could have the title before the fix is ready. My dealer says that VWoA agreed to give business to VW Credit, which is why they're requiring you finance the car. I don't see how they're making money on 0% financing, but I've been around financial markets long enough to recognize there's a lot I don't understand.

SSmike1 · May 4, 2017

GoFaster said:
Why don't you call your local dealer and ask??

I did that, and I went to the dealer, and they gave me a copy of the warranty.
the dealer here would not take anything off the price, other than the standard VW $5K discount they offer on ALL VW cars just like the Brand New 2017's.
I test drove three 2015 TDi's, and I loved them all. But I kept my 96 TDi. I hope to own a New 2004 Golf TDi soon! and my 96 is for sale.

NAZ TDI · May 4, 2017

IndigoBlueWagon said:
Since you can pay off the lease or loan anytime (some are saying after a minimum of 3 months) then you could have the title before the fix is ready. My dealer says that VWoA agreed to give business to VW Credit, which is why they're requiring you finance the car. I don't see how they're making money on 0% financing, but I've been around financial markets long enough to recognize there's a lot I don't understand.

They've probably figured out a way to cut their losses, get a tax break, etc. by this financing deal.

Diesl · May 4, 2017

I think it's worth a certain amount to them to get these cars off their books. Similar to why they are sending letters to people who opted out, inviting them to opt back in. Eliminate risk.

duratitus · May 9, 2017

r11 said:
Will the owner collect the 1/2 of the "fix money" when they come in for Part II of the fix ?

Cars that were not registered at some point between September 18, 2015, and June 28, 2016 are not eligible for any claim benefits.
This was the fancy little clause they put in to eliminate any payout for new cars that have been sitting in dealer lots since the stopsale was announced.

k1xv said:
The only reason why they can sell a "partially fixed" car today is if they have a mechanism to assure the buyer will bring the car back for Phase 2 when the hardware becomes available.

Otherwise, they would not be able to offer any 2015 cars for sale until the entire fix were performed.

^^^ That may be your opinion, but do you have anything to back that up?

Sounds good, but I doubt there will be anything more than a free car wash and oil change.....Just sayin.

k1xv · May 10, 2017

Try to get any warranty work done on a car that the owner refuses to complete the fix.

tadawson · May 10, 2017

Should be a non-issue, as per the law. . .

DanB36 · May 11, 2017

duratitus said:
That may be your opinion, but do you have anything to back that up?

The new (unsold before 9/18/15) MY2015 cars aren't covered by the settlement, and therefore aren't protected by the settlement's requirement that states not refuse registration. Put differently, states can refuse to register cars that haven't had the fix done. Whether they will is another issue, but they can.

DanB36 · May 11, 2017

k1xv said:
Try to get any warranty work done on a car that the owner refuses to complete the fix.

What part of Magnuson-Moss allows a manufacturer to refuse warranty coverage if an owner hasn't had unrelated work done? Or are you suggesting that VW will again ignore the law?

VWMark · May 11, 2017

Quick question: Why wouldn't you want to get the second phase of the fix done? Obviously, we don't know exactly what it will be yet, but they have stated it will not effect performance at all, and it will replace a bunch of failure prone exhaust treatment parts. Also, if you don't get the second part done, you don't get the 162,000 mile 11 year warranty.

k1xv · May 11, 2017

DanB36 said:
What part of Magnuson-Moss allows a manufacturer to refuse warranty coverage if an owner hasn't had unrelated work done? Or are you suggesting that VW will again ignore the law?

I have not seen a sales agreement for one of these cars, but it would not surprise me if the fine print requires the buyer to comply, on a timely basis, to return the car for completion of the "fix".

Absent an owner doing that, the car is not certified as a compliant on road motor vehicle. At best, it is an "off road" vehicle at that point. I have never heard of any dealer providing warranty service to an owner who has an "off road" version of the vehicle.

If I were to take any new car and have it modified to not comply with the Clean Air Act, I would void my warranty. These cars, as sold today, are only conditionally compliant. When a fix becomes available, it must be performed in order for the car to remain compliant with Clean Air Act requirements.

IndigoBlueWagon · May 11, 2017

k1xv said:
I have not seen a sales agreement for one of these cars, but it would not surprise me if the fine print requires the buyer to comply, on a timely basis, to return the car for completion of the "fix".

The documents aren't very clear. It doesn't appear that VW has a plan for pulling cars back or for taking any action with owners who don't bring their cars back. It doesn't appear from my reading that they have the ability to levy any penalty on owners who don't bring cars back. I'm not even sure they can deny warranty coverage.

Regarding bringing the car back. I'm not sure I will. I plan to have the car tuned, don't plan to drive it a lot in the next couple years, so the emissions warranty may not have a lot of value to me. I might prefer they leave it alone.

tadawson · May 11, 2017

Unless deleted, my understanding is that phase 2 is DPF/SCR replacement, and addition of a DEF quality sensor. Which begs the question: why would anyone *not* get a free DPF/SCR replacement to enhance longevity?

Mark_J · May 11, 2017

My 2015 purchase papers said nothing about the 2nd 1/2 fix. But to be safe, I will get the 2nd 1/2 fix. The software is already been changed and the 2nd fix is an added nox sensor if I understand it correctly. And with the 11 year warranty covering everything, I am definitely getting the final fix to ensure I have the warranty.

planetb · May 11, 2017

I am in an odd spot. I will be hitting up another dealer soon to get a work history on the car as the dealer I bought it from is very shady. I bought the car new 2 weeks ago (2015 Jetta TDI S). The day bought the car, the dealer informed me that the service department had the keys and I could not take delivery of it that day. Sale guy said he was going to drop it off first thing Monday morning (I was at the dealer on a Sunday). Monday rolled around and the sales guy called and told me service had to finish up a couple things and it was going to be later that afternoon before he could drop it off. 2pm Monday the sale guy called and said that the service department had to order some parts and it was going to be 3 or 4 days until the parts arrived. I was not happy, but figured I could wait as I have another car. I did not hear anything from him at all and on Friday I left him a voice mail asking the status and did not get a call back or email. Saturday noon time I was starting to feel pretty pissed off. I called again and got his voice mail, called the main # and got his voice mail after being transferred. Called back and asked for a manager and got her voice mail. Left a info request on their site and got no call, email or anything. I checked my email later that afternoon and had an email that car was done and to let him know what I was available for delivery. I sent a rely at 3pm that any time was fine, give me a call. I did not get any call or reply to the email again. Sunday the sale guy was off, so had to wait until Monday. Monday afternoon after not seeing any emails or calls, I called the sale guys cell # and got his voice mail. At 4:30 on Monday I called the dealers main number and demanded to speak with the sale guy and he picked up the phone after about 3 mins. He asked again when I was available for delivery and I said "I am now" and he said he would leave shortly. at 7:30 the car was delivered. He was in a pretty big hurry to leave and pretty much gave me the keys and left. I jumped in the car and found the check engine light on. I hooked up my vag and it has an error about "intercooler coolant pump : open circuit" I did a little research and found the pump unplugged.. Plugged it back in and cleared the codes and the car is fine.

so my question now is, what did they do to the car. Sale guy said the emission stuff was not completed on Monday and that's why they needed parts. The paper work I found in the glove box said the Phase 2 stuff was going to need to be done After 2018 and Phase 1 was a software update that would take 1 hour. Unless they needed to order a new computer or something to do the software update, I don’t see why it took a week and parts were needed unless they did Phase 2 already?! I noticed the fuel filter was changed (maybe the housing) and for some reason some work was done under the car as the coolant pump was disconnected and noticed some oil on the belly cover. I did ask them on Monday about if the oil/filter and fuel filter should be changed as the cars been sitting for a long time.

On top of all the above, they didn't even really do anything before delivery. The car is dirty, can still see the spots were the shipping wrap was on the car. left all the window stickers on it and the glue/tape was a pain to get off as it looks like it had been baked onto the windows for over a year. Tires were all low on air. Diesel fuel all over the frame rail under the fuel filter area.

rr!

VWMark · May 11, 2017

planetb said:
I am in an odd spot. I will be hitting up another dealer soon to get a work history on the car as the dealer I bought it from is very shady. I bought the car new 2 weeks ago (2015 Jetta TDI S). The day bought the car, the dealer informed me that the service department had the keys and I could not take delivery of it that day. Sale guy said he was going to drop it off first thing Monday morning (I was at the dealer on a Sunday). Monday rolled around and the sales guy called and told me service had to finish up a couple things and it was going to be later that afternoon before he could drop it off. 2pm Monday the sale guy called and said that the service department had to order some parts and it was going to be 3 or 4 days until the parts arrived. I was not happy, but figured I could wait as I have another car. I did not hear anything from him at all and on Friday I left him a voice mail asking the status and did not get a call back or email. Saturday noon time I was starting to feel pretty pissed off. I called again and got his voice mail, called the main # and got his voice mail after being transferred. Called back and asked for a manager and got her voice mail. Left a info request on their site and got no call, email or anything. I checked my email later that afternoon and had an email that car was done and to let him know what I was available for delivery. I sent a rely at 3pm that any time was fine, give me a call. I did not get any call or reply to the email again. Sunday the sale guy was off, so had to wait until Monday. Monday afternoon after not seeing any emails or calls, I called the sale guys cell # and got his voice mail. At 4:30 on Monday I called the dealers main number and demanded to speak with the sale guy and he picked up the phone after about 3 mins. He asked again when I was available for delivery and I said "I am now" and he said he would leave shortly. at 7:30 the car was delivered. He was in a pretty big hurry to leave and pretty much gave me the keys and left. I jumped in the car and found the check engine light on. I hooked up my vag and it has an error about "intercooler coolant pump : open circuit" I did a little research and found the pump unplugged.. Plugged it back in and cleared the codes and the car is fine.

so my question now is, what did they do to the car. Sale guy said the emission stuff was not completed on Monday and that's why they needed parts. The paper work I found in the glove box said the Phase 2 stuff was going to need to be done After 2018 and Phase 1 was a software update that would take 1 hour. Unless they needed to order a new computer or something to do the software update, I don’t see why it took a week and parts were needed unless they did Phase 2 already?! I noticed the fuel filter was changed (maybe the housing) and for some reason some work was done under the car as the coolant pump was disconnected and noticed some oil on the belly cover. I did ask them on Monday about if the oil/filter and fuel filter should be changed as the cars been sitting for a long time.

On top of all the above, they didn't even really do anything before delivery. The car is dirty, can still see the spots were the shipping wrap was on the car. left all the window stickers on it and the glue/tape was a pain to get off as it looks like it had been baked onto the windows for over a year. Tires were all low on air. Diesel fuel all over the frame rail under the fuel filter area.

rr!

Wow, that is some really crappy service! You are correct, phase 1 of the fix is just a software update, but also requires the dealer to document lots of stuff and put new stickers under the hood. They could not have done phase 2 yet because it doesn't exist. But, the dealers also had to perform a bunch of maintenance stuff to get the cars ready for sale. Oil change and oil filter change, fuel filter change, cabin filter change, flush brake fluid, test battery and replace if required, check tires and brakes and replace if required, check wipers and replace if required. I'm probably forgetting something. Anyway, my guess is they were waiting for some other parts to get the car ready, although they could just be full of crap. You should be able to request the service ticket to see what they actually did. And yeah, find a new dealership!

'15 "new" TDIs and pink elephant

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