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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old October 2nd, 2012, 21:11   #1
Captain Morgan
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Default TDI I acquired over the summer, repairs, repairs, now runaway. Just looking for input

I've read a bunch of runaway threads on here already, but I wanted to give the complete background of the vehicle I'm working on to get some 2nd or 3rd opinions of what I should do.

If you dont want to read my novel, skip down to the bold paragraph below

I picked up a 2002 TDI 5-Speed in August. The car came with full service records, timing belt, coolant temp sensor and a bunch of other stuff was done less than 10 months earlier and the car had been sitting for most of that time from what I gathered.

I purchased the car knowing it needed a radiator, battery and it had an exhaust leak. I didnt even drive it until I got it to work, rolled it off the trailer and dropped in the old battery from my 00 TDI. On my initial test drive, the car had absolutely NO power what so ever. It had torque, but it took forever even just to reach 25 mph, so the first thing I did was run a complete scan with VAGCOM but that turned up nothing. The only codes were in the airbag system for low voltage, probably due to the bad battery that was previously in the vehicle. No dash lights (other than low coolant), started fine, sounded good, but now power.

Before replacing the radiator, I did a little snooping around the EGR and Intake and found signs of a both of them being clogged. After pulling the EGR off, this is what I found....



The EGR and Intake were both about 70% clogged. I cleaned the EGR first, then worked on the intake, letting it sit overnight in a solvent bath. I also cleaned the EGR cooler and put everything back together with new gaskets and seals.



Next I pulled the radiator and replaced that with one I had from the '01 TDI I chopped up last year. Once that was done, I completely redid the brakes front and rear, then went for another test drive. The car did feel a little more powerful, but clearly lacked power still.

After doing some more searching and reading on here, it seemed the next logical thing to check was the actuator for the turbo. Sure enough, I couldn't get it to budge, neither by had or vacuum pump. I have a complete spare engine sitting on a stand, so I stole the actuator off of that and replaced it today. I also replaced the radiator again with a new unit after discovering a small fracture on the end tank.

I started the car and give it a small rev, I could actually hear the turbo spool now, first time since I got the car. Test drive proved that the actuator was the problem, car felt good

I basically drove the car around the parking lot, winding 1st gear out a bit, never getting past 2nd gear. I drove down, drove back, turned around again to do another lap, was shifting out of 1st and the engine ran away from me. I'm not really sure how long, it seemed like forever, but I'd estimate 5-10 seconds, I know I didnt have enough time to get out of the car and pop the hood (wasnt sure if the ASV was going to function or not).

There was some smoke, grey in color, it dissipated quickly but was rather stinky. I did not attempt to restart the car as I did not want it to happen again, I figured Id try again tomorrow so I could be under the hood if it did try to run away again.

Now, I plan on doing a compression test as soon as I can get my hands on a tester. I'm leaning towards the turbo seals being bad as the cause for the runaway? I will look for oil in the intake system tomorrow as well, but it just seemed like too much of a coincidence that it ran away finally after getting the turbo to operate correctly.

Am I overlooking any other causes for the runaway? Should I have cleaned more than just the intake, EGR and cooler?

Does anyone think the EGR could be bad too after seeing how clogged the intake was? I believe I have read topics on here on how to test the EGR, I have another one I can swap on there, but I'd like to test that one as well.

Thanks in advance for any help, thoughts or input on my little dilemma.
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93 GMC Typhoon #0180 . 93 GMC Typhoon #1579 . 07 Chevy Trailblazer SS . 01 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4x4 . 52 Cadillac Coupe

Last edited by Captain Morgan; October 3rd, 2012 at 05:46. Reason: added the spaces back
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 21:13   #2
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What likely happened is the inter cooler was full of oil from an extended period of no boost. Now that you have everything working it ingested all of that dormant oil.
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 21:21   #3
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what likely happened is the inter cooler was full of oil from an extended period of no boost. Now that you have everything working it ingested all of that dormant oil.
^^btdt^^
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 21:21   #4
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What likely happened is the inter cooler was full of oil from an extended period of no boost. Now that you have everything working it ingested all of that dormant oil.
makes sense, Ill pull the intercooler tomorrow since I still have the bumper off, but I'm just nervous about it happening again and I most certainly want to fix whatever the cause was/is.
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 21:29   #5
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If I had a good camera, I could show you pictures of the pretzled rods on the one I pulled apart. Same story except the rotating assembly had frozen and a used turbo was installed but the intercooler wasn't cleaned.

Have you tried to start the engine yet? You may find really bad things going on. also, you could do a compression check to see how bad things are.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 05:52   #6
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If I had a good camera, I could show you pictures of the pretzled rods on the one I pulled apart. Same story except the rotating assembly had frozen and a used turbo was installed but the intercooler wasn't cleaned.

Have you tried to start the engine yet? You may find really bad things going on. also, you could do a compression check to see how bad things are.
nope, I didn't want to start it without having someone else around because I want to be under the hood this time and I plan on doing a compression test as soon as I can get my hands on compression tester.

I'm probably not going to start it until i pull the intercooler and get anything else out that may be in there.

As worried (angry) as I am, i know the RPMs never reached redline and it wasn't totally screaming and i never heard anything bad during or when it finally shut down, so Im still hopeful. (crossing fingers)
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 06:06   #7
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The reason it ran away was the amount of air washed the oil into the cylinders. Starting and idling has very low airflow and it won't wash the oil in, but I understand your hesitation. Drain the intercooler then give it a shot.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 06:16   #8
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so, the rpm's dropped off by themself? sounds like leftover oil in ic instead of seals.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 07:08   #9
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Scary stuff... has me worried. I have had the hose from in between the upper IC pipe and the EGR off and found a small amount of oil in it, and cleaned it with clean shop paper towel. I also replaced my CCV breather and found a decent amount of oil inside the hose that goes to the intake, from it. That is likely the source of most of your oil... it has just been pooling since you have had low air flow... which is what I have now. I am looking to get one of those oil catchers for in between the breather and the intake. That should keep most of the oil out, assuming there isn't another leak (like in the turbo).
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 07:42   #10
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The reason it ran away was the amount of air washed the oil into the cylinders. Starting and idling has very low airflow and it won't wash the oil in, but I understand your hesitation. Drain the intercooler then give it a shot.
that was my general feeling as well, but... the oil did get there by some sort of means, i understand some oil or residue will be in there, but now after pulling the IC, Im starting to question stuff again. Right now i have the IC in a solvent bath, then im going to flush some degreaser through it, then water, then dry it.

Quote:
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so, the rpm's dropped off by themself? sounds like leftover oil in ic instead of seals.
Yup, they dropped off and slowed down till it stopped, within about 10 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerfool View Post
Scary stuff... has me worried. I have had the hose from in between the upper IC pipe and the EGR off and found a small amount of oil in it, and cleaned it with clean shop paper towel. I also replaced my CCV breather and found a decent amount of oil inside the hose that goes to the intake, from it. That is likely the source of most of your oil... it has just been pooling since you have had low air flow... which is what I have now. I am looking to get one of those oil catchers for in between the breather and the intake. That should keep most of the oil out, assuming there isn't another leak (like in the turbo).
I had the CCV off when I did the intake cleaning, that didnt seem to have much oil in it (surprisingly), Im going to post some pictures of my findings and see what everyone thinks then.

Popped the lower clamp, I was expecting oil, but not Niagra Falls....



I ended up putting a catch pan under it but I couldnt get that pic to upload at work right now.

After I got the IC out of the car, I still managed to pour this much out without waiting for it to drip out...



All in all, Id say there was between a 1/4 and 1/2 Quart of oil in the IC.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 07:50   #11
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Originally Posted by Antsrcool View Post
What likely happened is the inter cooler was full of oil from an extended period of no boost. Now that you have everything working it ingested all of that dormant oil.
Wow, I am lucky. I was almost in the exact same situation after I bought my car. PeterV if you are reading this then thank you again, because I think that you saved my engine when you noticed my oily intercooler piping and said that we had to pull the intercooler while we were cleaning the intake manifold.

Mine had at least as much as yours does Captain. I think it was roughly half full of oil at the time.

I actually had the actuator on mine fixed first, but because of the clogged intake the car couldn't breath well enough to ingest the oil.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 07:58   #12
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Holy crap! I thought I got a lot out of my IC on my first purchase, and that was a little over 1/4 cup.

The car did seem happier after I soaked the IC in simple green. Man the nasty sludge goo stuff that came out... yuck. I sure my IC is working a million times better now!

It's very likely that with this much oil in your IC, you've got a bad seal in the turbo feeding it. (My guess)
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 08:03   #13
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I think most likely your engine is good based on how you describe the engine runaway. If I understand (and remember) correctly what I've read, if the turbo is not building boost, then the turbo seals are not really effective and tend to leak. Now if you extend that over a long time you will end up with a full of oil IC and we all know the rest of the story.

Good luck!
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 08:16   #14
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Just to be certain pull the glow plugs and place shop rags by the holes , disconnect the fuel shutoff solenoid and crank the engine and see how much oil blows out of the cylinders, hopefully preventing a hydraulic if it hasn't happened yet. Then do your compression test.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 08:19   #15
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thanks guys, I'm keeping myself optimistic on this. I figured if there is engine damage, that will give me an excuse to replace the clutch and just clean everything up in the engine bay, heh.

The IC itself seemed pretty clean, besides the oil itself. There was no chucky stuff or sludge in there, just oil itself, which seems to be coming out just fine.

Im going to hand crank the engine over completely before I attempt to fire it up again. My compression tester should be here around 2pm, so maybe Ill just want and see whats up with that before I do a full test fire.

according to AllData, they are saying the compression should be as follows:

Compression pressure New 25 to 31 bar Wear limit 19 bar Permissible diff. between cyl. 5 bar

Wear limit being the lowest and 1 bar = 14.7 PSI (if I remember correctly), then I should see no less than 280 PSI on any individual cylinder, and no more than 74 PSI difference between the highest and lowest cylinder.
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