What should I know: V10 TDI

Hi Folks,

Years ago I saw a V10 tdi in our little city of Eugene, OR. For some reason it really caught my attention.

A few years later we were ready to make a move on a low mileage '04 Touareg V10. The jackass (best word for it) dealer (Audi of Houston, ahem see the reviews) played every game in the book it seems, so we called it quits. Bought a local B7 Audi A4 2.0 Quattro Avant 6MT. Cheap, nice, hauls stuff, good MPG and sporty...but it can't tow.

I still potentially see a V10 in our future. And despite being a pro tech, etc, etc, I don't have time to do excessively major repair projects. Hands are very full with so many projects as it is.

I guess the main concerns for me are:
1. What are the engine issues, if any?
2. Same for transmission
3. Other areas of concern or that can be costly to repair or are prone to issues?

Anyone with 200K miles that has owned for a number of years is especially encouraged to expound their story!


Fundamentally love what this vehicle is about......

Thanks everyone,
Gary

The Touareg is a very nice car but the V10 moves it into supercar territory with the potential - on the engine - for supercar bills.

There are a few things on the V10 that whereas on normal cars you would just unbolt, remove and replace, you have to drop the engine! And that includes one of the exhaust sensors!!

Some people can drop and replace the engine in a day. Dealers want 30 hours book time!

Anyway, here's a couple of threads for you to read, learn and inwardly digest. Let us know if you buy one.

Look out especially for info on the correct oil which MUST, MUST, MUST be used to avoid premature camshaft lobe wear. Even VW dealers have been known to get it wrong

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f...distribution-of-a-touareg-v10-frex-73289.html

http://www.mytreg.com/index.php?/topic/10163-buying-a-used-touareg-what-to-look-for/

I'm Volkswagen's biggest fan, I'd pass on any T'reg, especially the V10. They are neat, but not worth the price of admission. There are also far superior tow vehicles out there. And they'll be bigger and less costly to operate, too.

The Touareg is an excellent tow car up to 7500lbs.

The 3.0Tdi T2 is the best of the bunch.

I would like to add two comments about the Touareg V-10 TDI engine. First, to the best of my knowledge, this is the only passenger vehicle VW diesel engine in the past 20 or so years that does not have either a timing belt or timing chain, the camshafts in this engine are driven by gears. This is a huge advantage over any of the smaller new diesels that require periodic timing belt replacements at substantial cost. However, that's about the only advantage of this engine over any of the other diesels VW makes. Second, this engine was not designed with the intent to be rebuilt easily when the time comes for general overhaul. The cylinders are not in one piece with the crankcase, they are separate components that are bolted onto the crankcase. More importantly, though, the cylinders do not have typical wet or dry liners, the aluminum cylinders are bored and then the bore is coated with a thin layer of plasma-deposited hard alloy. This means that once the cylinder bores wear out beyond their specification limits, they have to be scrapped and replaced with new ones. I do not know the cost of the new cylinders, but I am reasonably sure this will be significantly more expensive than simply pressing in new iron liners or resurfacing them, which is how typical engines are rebuilt. Then again, this may not be a valid concern if you don't plan on keeping the car long enough for it to need overhaul. Just my two cents.

That timing belt/chain thing is a non issue. Because this beast will easily chomp through more of your bank account in tires alone than a half million miles worth of timing belts on a Jetta.

Couple that with the fact that there are two of almost everything to make the engine work (2 tandem pumps, 2 electric fuel pumps, 2 MAFs, 2 EGR systems, 2 throttle bodies, 2 turbochargers....) and the fact that the oil change alone will cost you double (the V10 holds about 11 liters of oil), almost anything service wise to the engine requires removal of the engine, it will all make a timing belt cost seem truly trivial at best.

One thing the engine IS good for, though, is the block will make a very nice coffee table. I'm in the process of making one now.

Like I said, the engine runs nicely, and makes a neat albeit perhaps strange, sound. 5 and 10 cylinders have a signature sound that is unmistakable. But the box it is bolted in, at least for us, isn't all that remarkable. They are not that "big" inside (the B6 Passat variant is bigger), they cost as much as an Audi A6 variant (which is a LOT bigger), don't really drive or perform in a way that would make them a standout over many others, and most all the ones I have been in (which has been quite a few) are not really squeak and rattle free, especially the ones cursed with super low profile tires. Go drive a Lexus GX470 with 100k miles, you'll see a huge difference. And they cost less. A LOT less.

I currently own two 2004 V10 Tdi Touaregs. One with 108000 miles. The other with 180,000 miles. Go for it. A very enjoyable car. The issues with the car are consistent with anything in this price range when new. Very little issues with the V10. If any! The rest of the car, a bit quirky but not unlike other cars in its class.

The 30 hours to remove the engine at the dealer is BS. My dealer charges eight hours.
There is a lot of misinformation posted from people who never owned one. Feel free to PM me and I will be happy to answer any questions.

Art

Happy 04 owner here with zero complaints. What I usually tell people when they ask me about it is. Most enjoyable road car I've owned. If you are very "frugal" like most TDI owners you probably wont enjoy it, it's not the most economical vehicle, it has higher maintenance cost but if you are on the road a lot or just plain enjoy driving it's a good choice in my opinion. If you are looking for cheap transportation not so much. When shopping for one don't buy the cheapest you can find look for a well kept one. Possibly pay a little more now it could save you in the long run. Some people have had bad times with them. Good luck, they are a blast I love mine

Thanks for all the info.

I'm no stranger to high-needs vehicles and appreciate the rewards to challenge ratio. One of them is an Audi RS6 (V8 bi-turbo, 500+hp) and a old Detroit Diesel (8V-71N) motor coach. It's also a gear driven valvetrain design like the V10 TDI. Proven design.

Just nice to know what to expect in the real world.

Naturally, I will drive a few before committing to a purchase...

I prefer to use BioDiesel. Any comments with regards to the older V10's?

although I really do like using bio-diesel in my older mechanical motors I have always been hesitant to try bio in my T-reg. Others might dis-agree but I don't feel comfortable with possibly introducing suspended water or glycerin into mine. I have seen several guys who have had issues with HEUI style injectors. To me it's just not worth it considering the potential problems that can arise. Do you buy commercial fuel or convert your own? Seeing you are a tech and probably do your own work, go drive a couple like you said and if it's a good fit for you go for it.

<Hijack>

I cannot comment on the Touareg or V-10 TDI, but I do have considerable experience running alternative fuels through HEUI injectors. I ran waste vegetable oil in my 96 7.3 PowerStroke until the restaurant I was getting it from went out of business. It was settled, filtered to 1 micron, and mixed with gasoline, 80% WVO and 20% gas. This lowered viscosity slightly and prevented congealing to at least -14F, the lowest I could test to. It ran rather well, but somehow I was always hungry when driving it.

That said, I would NEVER run this in my TDI's. A VE may tolerate it, but with the great mileage it already gets, I didn't feel the need to chance it. I have strong doubts about a pumpe duse living with such fuel, and I have little doubt it'd kill a common rail in short order. I wouldn't even run it in a 6.0 HEUI PowerStroke. The 7.3 had much more tolerant injectors, and really wasn't all that expensive to repair if something did give up. Alas, it's been 2+ years running regular old D2, and she's still running just as strong. Love that engine.

It is important to note that WVO and Bio-diesel are very different. What I ran was WVO, and was simply filtered, not processed like bio-diesel would be. Bio-diesel may work better in more modern engines.

</Hijack>

Love mine...go for it. Just got done with a 2300 mile round trip and one of the most comfortable rides i have done it in.

Just picked up my 08 v10 and I have a feeling I'm in for some immediate expenses. Previous owner just replaced both turbochargers, both tandem pumps, the power steering pump, all four pads and rotors, and the steering column, ignition switch, and KESSY module for around $15k all in, before selling it to me. Remaining issues include suspension clunks, tire shakes, and intermittently functioning air conditioning. The car has 124,000 miles.

Wish me luck, and I wish you the same in your search.

You're a brave man! Good luck!!

I'm in the market for a V10 as well, have seen a lot of nice things about it, and of course all of the complaints. Overall looks pretty nice to me. Hoping to find one locally in the DC area so I can lay eyes on it without much expense. Any comments on the main things to look at on a used V10?

I've had mine almost two months now and am very pleased overall. However, as for "what to look at," all I can say is receipts. There are so many components that require engine removal to diagnose, let alone to service, that you can be confident that if they weren't done, they will need it sooner or later.

If you have your VCDS cable with you, monitor MAF readings, boost readings, cylinder balance (block 13), and search for fluid leaks and exhaust leaks of any kind.

When you pick one up, get the oil analyzed immediately, change it immediately, and replace all engine/driveline fluids and filters right away.

Negotiating points include impending maintenance (tires, brakes, driveshaft supports, axle boots, control arm bushings), imminent failure symptoms, and the quality, quantity of prior maintenance. If it is not a good deal, just walk away, but expect to spend some money no matter what.

I've spent about $1000 in maintenance supplies and about a day's time so far, and I'm just scratching the surface. However, I've put 5,000 trouble free miles on it and couldn't be happier.

rshelton said:

. Any comments on the main things to look at on a used V10?

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Yes, your own bank balance. If it's healthy then take your time to find a good car with a decent service history and enjoy it when you get it.

If your budget is tight don't walk away . . . run like hell!

The most important advice I can give after owning 2 v10 at the same time is ignore the above post. Only take advice from people with current ownership. There were issues when they were new but a lot of that was due to the lack of understanding of the techs. Most current owners will tell you that it is the best vehicle they have ever owned.

My advice is sound.

If you can afford to run a V10, knowing that things can go wrong and if they do they can be expensive to fix as all Touaregs can be with the V10 doubly so if its the engine which is a beautiful piece of engineering, that's fine - like I said, take your time to find a good one and enjoy it.

But if you are on a tight budget, it's not the car for you.

Please don't be offended if I respectfully disagree, I believe your advice to be hearsay. Do you currently own a V10? Have you ever owned one? I so please list your time owed and repairs specifically related to the engine.

Blownvette said:

Please don't be offended if I respectfully disagree, I believe your advice to be hearsay. Do you currently own a V10? Have you ever owned one? I so please list your time owed and repairs specifically related to the engine.

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Not so much hearsay if you read the post on Club Touareg and what V10 owners have gone through to get repairs done when needed. I love the motor as well and had an opportunity to drive one during one of the CO Rallies, but if something does go wrong such as a turbo failure, you have a costly motor drop to deal with it. There is enough post there about this that it does make it worth considering before purchase.

The only 'free' thing about the V10 is the mandatory membership in Club Touareg! lol There is a LOT of V10 information on that site - but, like all forums -you have to be your own judge about the credibility of the stuff you read. If you do not have a VW-Fidelity Platinum warranty in effect then you really do need a fat bank account if you want to keep the car running well.

just came across this post. we have had two 2006 v10's on our family. one since new and one since late 2008. one was sold this year in order to get a audi a6 tdi and the other i drive as my personal car. i LOVE this vehicle. it has been the MOST dependable that ive owned. i have had to only do brakes, tires, cabin filter, fuel filter, and regular oil changes. all things you can do in your driveway. i use the truck to tow primarily and the air suspension helps with that A LOT.

that all being said, i will be selling mine soon to put up cash for medical school! if anyone wants a perfect v10 with under 70k please let me know!

I had an 06 and 08 V10s. The 06 is fantastic and but the 08 may be the best car I've ever driven. However, as pointed out previously every repair bill is huge. All the accessories on the engine are mounted toward the firewall and gear driven. For AC service on the 08 the engine had to be dropped which is a 3k labor bill + the repair cost. Additionally, not every VW dealership is equipped to work on a V10. Fortunately my local dealer is so I have that convenience. You can still get VW drive easy warranties backed by fidelity and they are accepted at VW dealers as if it is a new car warranty minus your choice of deductible. The deductibles are per visit not per issue. That means if you have two warranty repairs on the same visit it is one payment.

As you can imagine these warranties are pricey. Determining factors are existing mileage on the vehicles, length of warranty and deductible amount.

warranties are pricey, i just reuped for another 5 year 60k and it was about $4500!

GotEuroCorrado said:

warranties are pricey, i just reuped for another 5 year 60k and it was about $4500!

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One issue and its paid for though. 3k labor engine out plus whatever the issue is.

I forgot to mention in my previous post that I bought another 08 v10. They're that good in my opinion.

I have never owned a touregg, But enjoy reading this post of lovers and non lovers.
More post please! lol

Moe
As an owner and believer in the V10's I've gotta say.......that's a pretty good mileage count on your PSD. I routinely get them in the 300k to 400k range but pushin 600k is one of the higher I've heard of. Back to the T-regs, Yes there are many who have read they are problem vehicles and a few owners that have experienced problems but the large majority of actual owners I've heard from love them. Kinda like the B5 crowd....great cars but lots of nay-sayers. Call me crazy but I think atleast on the B5's they have hurt the value of a not perfect but really good car.

RSMS said:

Moe
As an owner and believer in the V10's I've gotta say.......that's a pretty good mileage count on your PSD. I routinely get them in the 300k to 400k range but pushin 600k is one of the higher I've heard of. Back to the T-regs, Yes there are many who have read they are problem vehicles and a few owners that have experienced problems but the large majority of actual owners I've heard from love them. Kinda like the B5 crowd....great cars but lots of nay-sayers. Call me crazy but I think atleast on the B5's they have hurt the value of a not perfect but really good car.

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Oppsie! That things gets 19-22 depending on load and other stuff, my foot. Great luck, but It all long distance and same rpm driving. now thats a conversion. just rear end, and cam sensors like 7 and tensor pulleys , 5 of those. Same motor and tranny. Never touched anything else but high volume oil pump 2 times. And rotella haha stop using it when they took all detergents out for the new 6.0 , use gibbs off road oil, our secret.

For a diesel guy I may get a v10 tdi or a audi soon. With all cars there always is something. Right/ lol