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General VW Discussion This is a place for General VW topics (the company, not your vehicle). General topics about a specific vehicle should be posted in the General TDI Dicussion Forum sections for that vehicle platform. A4, A3 & B4, B5, etc.

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Old April 9th, 2020, 18:43   #1
tactdi
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Default 2007 GTI Engine Repair

I am looking at a 2007 GTI (EA113) with a broken timing belt, and bent valves.

I would be buying the GTI with the intention of replacing the engine/head, and would be sourcing a used engine/head.

Are there other VAG models that used the same engine/head that would interchange?
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Old April 10th, 2020, 08:11   #2
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Found my answers.

Heads from the EOS, Jetta MKV, and Audi B7 A4 (2004 - 2009) will work.

Block from the EOS and Jetta should be the same?
Since the Audi is longitudinal the block probably has different engine mount points.
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Old April 10th, 2020, 08:50   #3
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It is a BPY engine. Any BPY will work. The BPG is the longitudinal version, and has some differences obviously but I suspect if you stripped it down to just the long block you could transfer everything over.

Just an FYI: great engine (shameful someone neglected the timing belt), however.... they have a bad, BAD tendency to use oil. Some worse than others, but they all do to some extent. It is the piston rings. They also had an issue with the lobe on the cam and the HPFP follower wearing out. This was of course made worse by wrong oil use as well as simply running them out of oil. Both of those parts have updates available.

I only tell you this because a used engine may have some problems you did not anticipate. If it were mine, I'd have the head professionally rebuilt, and put some new rings in the engine, and I'd probably replace the oil cooler/filter housing (these can leak oil too) while it is apart. And of course, get the updated exhaust cam and HPFP follower.

They are a solid reliable engine once dialed in, make excellent power stock, and are responsive with a mild tune but know that the DMF/6sp will not take a lot of abuse.
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Old April 10th, 2020, 10:23   #4
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Thanks for the additional insight.

I read about the HPFP follower and cam, saw I can get an upgraded cam.

Also read about the list of issues, coils, HPFP, cam, intake motor, carbon build-up (as with all direct injection motors).

Had not read about the oil cooler/housing and burning oil.

As with most modern cars, the laundry list of items that may need to addressed
makes even an inexpensive or almost free car, cost prohibitive to get it running.

The thought is to get at least a used head and intake, redo the head and clean the intake. With a used head, I would have all good valves and valvetrain, so the rebuild would/could be cost effective.
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Old April 10th, 2020, 10:50   #5
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Oddly enough, the intake port carbon issue is much less pronounced on the BPY than it is on the CCTA that replaced it. The CCTA (the EA888 engine family, still in use today) has a far longer and more costly list of things that break.

The rings are not a bad job to do, pretty simple really. Once the head is off, which you are doing anyway. Only issue is it has a chain driven balance shaft assembly that will need to come down and out of the way to gain access to the bottom of the connecting rods.

If the timing belt was allowed to fail, chances are the engine (well, the whole car really) was neglected. So yes, you'll certainly have some untooefing to do. I'd gladly tackle a BPY GTI though if the body and interior wasn't too trashed and would clean up nicely.
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Old April 10th, 2020, 17:32   #6
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OH, so on one of these, wouldn't bad rings cause oil burning to happen all the time? Is that the cause when a 2.0 TSI (in a 2007 Audi A4) only really smokes when you romp on the go-pedal?

That is, the example I'm thinking of looks just fine until you kick it, then it gives a 007 style smoke screen.
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Old April 13th, 2020, 03:42   #7
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Normally they do not smoke much, as the catalyst eats it up and it isn't intensely bad like that. There may be some start up puff, and extended idle or a long closed throttle decel (high manifold vacuum) may cause a little oil smoke but not something you'd likely notice from the driver's seat.

A huge visible smoke cloud upon acceleration sounds more like a failing turbocharger to me. I'd also want to check the crankcase pressure regulator valve atop the engine, but those are not nearly as troublesome on these like they are the newer EA888 engines.

That is the trouble with these, they won't normally exhibit any obvious symptoms of oil consumption.... until they lock up. Which is the typical failure mode for a lot of chronic known oil burners. We have a 2009 Camry here that suffers such a problem, and the owner locked it up. "But it wasn't even due for an oil change yet" is the all-too-common response.
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Old April 13th, 2020, 05:24   #8
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That was my thought as well, but your comments about piston rings made me wonder.

Probably the turbocharger is what I'll pursue. Thanks!

Cheers,

PH
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Old April 13th, 2020, 05:29   #9
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If you take the downpipe loose from the turbo outlet (which is kind of a pain, I know), and look inside and see if it has a lot of black "cake" looking stuff... that is a sign of turbo oil seal seeping past. You can also wiggle the shaft and see if it is super floppy.
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Old April 14th, 2020, 06:26   #10
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Bought the GTI. I have never been a fan of black cars, but seeing that the car
is fairly small, should not be too bad keeping it looking nice.
Overall the car is in good shape for having 185k.

Been sitting for a few weeks or months. In addition to the head job and timing belt (it will be interesting to see the date code on the belt), it needs brakes, battery, and good paint detail, has almost new tires (one has a nail that needs a plug).

VCDS scan shows a large number of low voltage errors, and electrical faults.
Engine faults include 008583 (Lean idle), 000B35 (Cam Sensor), 000257 (MAF), 000135 (Fuel Pressure), 000256 (MAF), from trying to start the motor without the cam connected to the crank

None of the codes that are produced by many of the typical issues (Evap Purge valve, Coil packs, Cam Timing, Diverter valve, Intake motor), no DSG errors.


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Old April 14th, 2020, 06:50   #11
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There is an updated rail pressure sensor, you may want to check the part number while you have it apart. Cam sensor is likely due to the belt failure... the ECU saw CKP input, but nothing from CMP, and there is no "I am a dumbass and let my timing belt fail DTC", so...
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Old April 20th, 2020, 17:03   #12
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Picture of the broken belt. It would be nice to have a date code on the belt, would be interesting to know it age?



Here is the Chain Tensioner, chain guide is in two pieces!

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Old April 21st, 2020, 02:23   #13
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Yep, the chain guide will break when the belt fails and the cams suddenly are trying to push valves against pistons and there is a massive shock to the chain.

That is probably the original belt.
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Old May 6th, 2020, 06:17   #14
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Got the car running with a refurbished head. Injectors cleaned, fluids changed (oil, trans, coolant, brake). Car runs good, trans shifts great. Visited the automobile boutique (pick a part yard), several times to source broken plastic parts, either that I broke (coolant junction with that small nipple), or were already broken. Good that VW put the BPY motor in Passats and CCs, there plenty to pick parts from. Also scored a boost pipe from a Passat without the junction for the sound maker (that goes into the cabin), and the blanking plate from a 2.5 Golf (all for like $25, vs $150 new).

Also picked up a new lower timing cover, since the original one was cracked and missing one of the mounting holes, so the timing belt was changed at sometime in the past, new water pump has a metal vs plastic impeller. The timing belt replacement is a much more straight forward process than the TDI.
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Old May 6th, 2020, 10:18   #15
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Congrats on getting it back on the road. Sad that you saw what you did in salvage yards. What a waste. But hey, we are a wasteful species.
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