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Old March 12th, 2020, 07:18   #46
tikal
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Quote:
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..... describe how you see picking up rocks off the sea floor evolving into a 'deepwater horizon' accident....
Anytime you are talking about mining there are environmental risks involved with it. And if we become greedy in making money out of making rechargeable batteries for EVs then the environmental risk can increase proportionally if left unchecked. Companies might want to also find loopholes by mining in "international waters" and so forth.

My statement above is my opinion of a 'warning' sign and not a 'STOP' sign.
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Old March 12th, 2020, 07:44   #47
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Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Anytime you are talking about mining there are environmental risks involved with it. And if we become greedy in making money out of making rechargeable batteries for EVs then the environmental risk can increase proportionally if left unchecked. Companies might want to also find loopholes by mining in "international waters" and so forth.

My statement above is my opinion of a 'warning' sign and not a 'STOP' sign.
There's 'mining' and MINING. When you're just collecting stuff off the surface like lithium salts or deep sea nodules the potential for a mishap is vanishingly small. A bit more when you're after 1% of the content or need to remove a surface layer to get to the deposit like with strip mining. Deep sea hydrocarbon extraction dials the probability of a mishap to 11.

Comparing collecting loose rocks from the sea floor to deep water horizon is like comparing a game of twister to wing suit base jumping.
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Old March 12th, 2020, 08:55   #48
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I have nothing really to add to this other than to say nwdiver i like that analogy. That's a pretty funny visual difference.
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Old March 12th, 2020, 11:40   #49
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Originally Posted by nwdiver View Post
There's 'mining' and MINING. When you're just collecting stuff off the surface like lithium salts or deep sea nodules the potential for a mishap is vanishingly small. A bit more when you're after 1% of the content or need to remove a surface layer to get to the deposit like with strip mining. Deep sea hydrocarbon extraction dials the probability of a mishap to 11.
Comparing collecting loose rocks from the sea floor to deep water horizon is like comparing a game of twister to wing suit base jumping.
But it's also not like bending over to pick pebbles out of the stream bottom. You've got those mammoth sized machines you drop miles into the ocean and monitor it from an umbilical cord. Then suck rocks and whatever else is in the area into a giant vacuum to send it to the surface. What happens to the unwanted debris?
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Old March 12th, 2020, 12:26   #50
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But it's also not like bending over to pick pebbles out of the stream bottom.
It's pretty close to that. It's not like mining copper or rare earths where you have to collect tons of dirt chemically or mechanically bound, >95% of which you don't want. Have read about deep sea nodules? You couldn't design a more convenient metal reserve aside from the fact they're sitting on the sea floor.

Manganese Nodule
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Old March 13th, 2020, 17:44   #51
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Comparing collecting loose rocks from the sea floor to deep water horizon is like comparing a game of twister to wing suit base jumping.
This made me laugh, thanks.
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Old March 14th, 2020, 04:46   #52
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We already pump more oil from the ground in the US then we import.
As long as there's plenty of oil & gas it's not going away anytime soon...
I don't see the infrastructure for electric charging stations for ev's like I see for Gas/diesel sure there are other methods like charging it at home but until cost on buying ev's and better quicker charge times and battery life span gets better I don't see ev's making any big impact on the market just yet.
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Old March 16th, 2020, 07:39   #53
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It's pretty close to that. It's not like mining copper or rare earths where you have to collect tons of dirt chemically or mechanically bound, >95% of which you don't want. Have read about deep sea nodules? You couldn't design a more convenient metal reserve aside from the fact they're sitting on the sea floor.
Manganese Nodule
Unless you have a method for picking up each individual nodule without distrubing the surrounding soil/silt/deposits, you are creating an opportunity for some type of environmental impact. Just dropping the machine onto the ocean floor will disturb the floorbed. No one had any idea what type of long term impact that will have. Heck, 200+ years ago, no one had any idea the environmental impact strip mining would have. It wasn't until the 1980s that Iowa outlawed burning their own coal becasue of high sulfur content.
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Old March 22nd, 2020, 20:59   #54
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Can we get back to the original subject of this thread please?
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 02:49   #55
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I wonder how our new reality (changes to the economy and plummeting oil prices) will affect demand for buyback cars and used TDIs in general. I could argue that people won't be buying anything, or that fuel economy will fall to a distant second as gas prices fall, reducing demand for TDIs. Or that people will be buying buyback cars instead of new to save money. Not sure.
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 06:43   #56
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Indigo,

I am right there with you. With Gas prices / oil falling hard it is unlikely that anything short of Gas & Diesel vehicles will lead the way. There is a huge market of use diesel & gas vehicles, they tend to be less expensive, and if the fuel is cheap as dirt, it will be incredibly difficult to convince Average Joe they need anything more than a simple vehicle. And Nevermind Covid-19.... the Saudi's are in an outright war currently to tank the price. I read an article the other day that US Frackers need oil to be around $23 / barrel to make money, that the russians need it around $20, but the Saudi's can operate with it as low as $9 / barrel and make a profit. They are purposely increasing supply to crash the price, and force the other two out of the game. They also have 500 billion in reserve money to weather the storm otherwise. So sounds like the price of oil is going to be crazy low for a while. Especially since they are ramping up supply, as demand literally falls off the mountain. Another article was mentioning that w/ the current happening oil might actually go negative.... It closed at $19.84 per barrel yesterday, down from 50's..... crazy times...
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 07:44   #57
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Good thing Trump said they were going to buy and fill the Strategic Reserve. Good time to do it. I have always said if you had oodles of money you should buy when it is down like now and put it back into the ground and resell when the price rises. Don't know if that is even possible. Long range investment.
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 09:54   #58
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Wish this drop in gas cost would reach Seattle. My usual Shell was still at $3.15 for RUG. Of course, I save $1 per gallon with my Fred Meyer (Kroger) fuel points, but even the "cheap" stations are only just barely under $3.
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 10:30   #59
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RUG is still $2.35 or so here in MA. Diesel is $2.89 or so. No real reductions yet. And we just went under a stay at home order so I doubt stations will be exhausting their existing, higher cost, supply quickly.
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 10:37   #60
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The Saudi's are playing with fire by initiating this oil price war, imo. Their fiscal break even price point on oil is about $85/barrel vs. about $42/barrel for the Russians. The Saudi economy is a one trick pony with basically no diversification outside of oil production. I expect the Saudi's will blink first.
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