How to VCDS ABS bleed..

AnotherPerson

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
So today I did some checking with my VCDS, checked to make sure the wheel sensors were correct. Also did the test on the ABS to make sure it powered for all 4 wheels.

How do I go about the bleed process? That way I can get started on finding out if maybe its trash in the valves or just crappy fluid?
 
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Location
Columbus, OH
TDI
2003
Here is a piggy back question: is it possible to bleed the ABS pump WITHOUT VCDS? I ask because I recently took my car to have the entire braking system bleed after changing some calipers, was told that that ABS bleeding was "part of bleeding the system", but after getting my car back the brakes, while working, has a ton of travel before becoming stiff. So I am not wondering if they did bleed the ABS because I doubt they had VCDS or an similar software there.
 

mazzystr

Active member
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Holly Springs, NC
TDI
2004 Golf GLS Tdi (BEW)
Here is a piggy back question: is it possible to bleed the ABS pump WITHOUT VCDS? I ask because I recently took my car to have the entire braking system bleed after changing some calipers, was told that that ABS bleeding was "part of bleeding the system", but after getting my car back the brakes, while working, has a ton of travel before becoming stiff. So I am not wondering if they did bleed the ABS because I doubt they had VCDS or an similar software there.
I did a traditional "open valve, press pedal to the floor, close valve" type bleed. Now my ABS engages when I come to a slow stop. :rolleyes:
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Well, Ross Tech used to have that on their site Now it says bleed the ABS Hydraulic Unit on some cars. Please refer to a Factory Repair Manual for your car
 

AnotherPerson

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
Here is a piggy back question: is it possible to bleed the ABS pump WITHOUT VCDS? I ask because I recently took my car to have the entire braking system bleed after changing some calipers, was told that that ABS bleeding was "part of bleeding the system", but after getting my car back the brakes, while working, has a ton of travel before becoming stiff. So I am not wondering if they did bleed the ABS because I doubt they had VCDS or an similar software there.

Most of the universal scanners that the shops use. Snap on and such, can bleed the ABS. They cannot pull alot of the information we can but most can handle that.

ABS bleeding is also to help remove any older fluid too I believe.
 

curtludwig

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Winchendon, MA
TDI
1998 Jetta, 2005 Golf
I just went through this and got my car figured out. So I replaced the rear calipers and like one of the other posters had a ton of pedal travel before anything happened, this after bleeding with a pressure bleeder.

So what you do is connect up VCDS, go into the brake module and run the output tests. It'll run the pump, then have you hold the pedal, run the pump some more, release the pedal, step on the pedal, run the pump, etc for each corner.
The instructions at myturbodiesel suggest 30 seconds which feels like FOREVER when you're sitting there with your foot on the pedal. I actually worked up to it in 5-10 second bursts and while my car isn't perfect yet its MUCH better. I think one more run and I'll have it cracked.

I've driven a lot of newer cars that had this same symptom where the pedal would sink way low and then grab all of a sudden. I hate that and I'm wondering if those cars all needed to have their ABS systems bled...

The VCDS cable from Ross Tech is 100% worth the money, asking if you can do this without the cable is the wrong question. The right question is why don't you have the cable yet?
 
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Location
Columbus, OH
TDI
2003
The instructions at myturbodiesel suggest 30 seconds which feels like FOREVER when you're sitting there with your foot on the pedal. I actually worked up to it in 5-10 second bursts and while my car isn't perfect yet its MUCH better. I think one more run and I'll have it cracked.
So is this something that only requires you to sit in the driver's seat and push when it says, or do you also have to get out and turn a bleeder screw or something?
 

Curious Chris

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 11, 2001
Location
Pineview GA
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 RIP Rockford IL
Hmmm I have VCDS Hex-CAN and I know on a ALH engine brake system it walks you through bleeding brakes. Messages like hold to the floor, release pedal, and during this time you can hear the ABS pump run.
 

AnotherPerson

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
Hmmm I have VCDS Hex-CAN and I know on a ALH engine brake system it walks you through bleeding brakes. Messages like hold to the floor, release pedal, and during this time you can hear the ABS pump run.

Ive done this. But when its running you cant get fluid out the bleeder screws. Its like the pump locks off the fluid from coming out.
 

mk3

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta GLS 5-speed
What problem did you have before you started this work?

and what problem do you have now?

ABS bleed is not necessary for many usual services so maybe you don't even need to do it.

I've never figured out 100% how to do the ABS VCDS bleed... so I'm all ears if there is a pro that knows it well. Closest I came is to follow the process until I ran out of fluid and it just kept having my run in circles. Fluid definitely came out all the bleed screws. I don't know what the computer is waiting for to end the process but on my car that never happened.
 

atownbrg

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2016
Location
SLO County CA
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI 5 speed
Interested in this too. My brake pedal feels "soft" compared to other cars I've owned, and then it has a noticeable initial bite. Not sure when the last (if ever) time the fluid was flushed. I have VCDS but haven't explored this with it yet!
Anotherperson, when you are triggering the ABS and the bleed screw is opened, is someone also pushing down on the pedal?
Relevant info from the link provided by BobnOH:
"If air got into the lines, also bleed the ABS pump, if equipped. Plug in your VCDS diagnostic cable and select module 3 - ABS brakes. Go to Basic settings and select group 1. Hit "Go!" This triggers the ABS pump, during which time you should bleed the system. To build higher pressure than what is possible with a brake bleeder, do the manual "helper pumps the brakes while you bleed method" method. Do this a few times until there's no air in the brake lines and system. This shouldn't take more than 1 minute of running the pump per corner but your situation may vary so consult a professional if you're not sure."
"The advantage of manual pedal bleeding is that it builds much higher pressure in the brake system to push out any old fluid. If you are bleeding the ABS pump I suggest using the manual pedal method with a pressure bleeder to keep the fluid topped off and moving out."
"If you did get an air bubble in the lines while bleeding, you must get it out. If your car is equipped with ABS you must use a VCDS diagnostic cable or equivalent to cycle the ABS pump. After you plug in the cable and start the software, click on ABS pump. Then output tests. Cycle through them and follow the software prompts. This will cycle the ABS pump and it's the only way to get air out of the ABS pump. The service manual doesn't say how long to run the pump so as long as there's no air in the lines, 30 seconds per corner should be sufficient. I don't know the internals of the pump routing so if you bleed the brakes in sequence as before it should completely empty the pump. If air got into the lines, run the pump while bleeding until no more air is in the lines + about another 30 seconds."
 

mk3

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta GLS 5-speed
The instructions from member RacerTodd work; I just did the procedure over the weekend.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2655853&postcount=5


one thing I did differently... I'm not sure that the pedal has to be pressed hard, I didn't. I was outside the car and I used my hand to keep the pedal depressed.

Unlike my past attempts, this time the screen switched to "N/A" after approximately half a dozen cycles ( I wasn't counting but it was a lot!)

On previous attempts I ran out of fluid after endless cycles and never got the "N/A" which I take to mean it is complete.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
I've never figured out 100% how to do the ABS VCDS bleed... so I'm all ears if there is a pro that knows it well. Closest I came is to follow the process until I ran out of fluid and it just kept having my run in circles. Fluid definitely came out all the bleed screws. I don't know what the computer is waiting for to end the process but on my car that never happened.
IIRC it has 10 cycles, and uses a LOT of fluid. I've completed the full cycle once, the last time I did it on my car I just went around a couple times.

Bleeding the brakes shouldn't have any way to make the ABS give a false engagement. Perhaps the original poster knocked an ABS wire loose while working the area (perhaps it was corroded and weak already)?

-J
 

AnotherPerson

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
IIRC it has 10 cycles, and uses a LOT of fluid. I've completed the full cycle once, the last time I did it on my car I just went around a couple times.



Bleeding the brakes shouldn't have any way to make the ABS give a false engagement. Perhaps the original poster knocked an ABS wire loose while working the area (perhaps it was corroded and weak already)?



-J


Pump was clearly on. Just as soon as the pump came on the pedal went rock hard and u got a little squirt and it stopped. Couldn't press the pedal any further down if you had a floor jack jammed in there. Gonna be replacing the booster again soon so I'm gonna try again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

rkrueger

Active member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Pump was clearly on. Just as soon as the pump came on the pedal went rock hard and u got a little squirt and it stopped. Couldn't press the pedal any further down if you had a floor jack jammed in there. Gonna be replacing the booster again soon so I'm gonna try again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any luck fixing this issue? I'm stuck in the same spot.

Rob
 

20IndigoBlue02

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Location
Was North NJ, now SoCal
TDI
2002 Golf TDI-- deceased
It's requires specific timing, as guided by VCDS. Miss something and you have to start over. I remember doing it with oldpoopie and andy (can't remember if ACHTUNGTDI was there), when they installed a new ABS pump that had ASR/EDL on andy's car, way back in the day when he hosted meets at his house. Having a pressure bleeder helps, so the reservoir doesn't run dry, which means... again, you start over.

Hose leaks at the brake booster is also common.
 

rkrueger

Active member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Turned out I had a bad spring in my new booster causing all my issues. After the new booster the drag is 90% gone so a abs bleed wasn't the issue.

Hey thanks for the quick response! It sounds like a different issue with mine. Front pedals bleed up great.....rear has absolutely no fluid coming out of pump and of course no action at the rear calipers. The pedal feels great....only fronts apply. I think the pump may be stuck inside going to the rears....the saga continues.

Rob
 

jackal99

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Location
Cordell Oklahoma
TDI
02' Beetle
Any luck yet rkrueger? I have a related question, does anyone know of a ABS delete kit or where I can find a proportioning valve setup to just eliminate the D@@m thing? lol. I am NOT a fan of ABS to begin with.
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Any luck yet rkrueger? I have a related question, does anyone know of a ABS delete kit or where I can find a proportioning valve setup to just eliminate the D@@m thing? lol. I am NOT a fan of ABS to begin with.
If you unplug one of the ABS sensors it will disable ABS.
The light on the dash will be on also.
Maybe a fuse for ABS?
 

jackal99

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Location
Cordell Oklahoma
TDI
02' Beetle
wonneber, The problem is that I CANNOT seem to be able to bleed the air out of the ABS module. Here I am 3 years later still screwing with this POS and I am at a complete loss as to where to go with it next. I have bleed about a gallon and a half of fluid through the damn thing and I still get air and I have NOTHING for brakes.
 
Top