A day at Diesel Dubs (DPF and EGR valve delete)

jay_fyp · Oct 19, 2013

amstel78 said:
Let's just hope now that the HPFP doesn't explode... lol.

Get yourself the 2micron setup and hopefully you should be good to go even if it does, with just a pump replacement. Getting mine soon. Also I've mentioned this before in other threads, if you have mechanical break down insurance hpfp is covered with a small deductible. Only catch is you can't just opt into MBI, I believe you need to start carrying it on, or before, you hit 15,000 miles on your car. Fortunately I opted to get it. I did my deletes with just 16k on my odometer so I may need it if VW doesn't feel like covering something.

jay_fyp · Oct 19, 2013

Oh and by the way, to give some more praise about the tune. Just very slightly passed the halfway mark on my fuel gauge on my second tank of fuel since the delete and at 428 miles

This is all mixed driving (Including highway speeds, having fun with the torque and regular 55mph roads). The DPF delete is just what these cars ordered.

First Tank of fuel is in my fuelly, 49.6. That was a combo of stage II without delete on the drive to Dieseldubs (140 miles 75-80mph) for the delete and with the delete afterwards (140 miles on the way back with shorter trip miles and lower speed for the most part after that). The tank I'm on now should easily see in the mid 50s. Even at the higher speeds, if your holding that throttle steady, the mpgs just climb, very happy.

amstel78 · Oct 20, 2013

jay_fyp said:
Get yourself the 2micron setup and hopefully you should be good to go even if it does, with just a pump replacement. Getting mine soon. Also I've mentioned this before in other threads, if you have mechanical break down insurance hpfp is covered with a small deductible. Only catch is you can't just opt into MBI, I believe you need to start carrying it on, or before, you hit 15,000 miles on your car. Fortunately I opted to get it. I did my deletes with just 16k on my odometer so I may need it if VW doesn't feel like covering something.

Yup! Got MBI through Geico when I first bought the car. $250 deductible in case anything should go wrong. Bad thing is though, the MBI is only good for 7 years or 100,000 miles which ever comes first. I've been looking at the 2micron kit for some time. I'll definitely order it within the next several months.

jay_fyp said:
Oh and by the way, to give some more praise about the tune. Just very slightly passed the halfway mark on my fuel gauge on my second tank of fuel since the delete and at 428 miles This is all mixed driving (Including highway speeds, having fun with the torque and regular 55mph roads). The DPF delete is just what these cars ordered.
First Tank of fuel is in my fuelly, 49.6. That was a combo of stage II without delete on the drive to Dieseldubs (140 miles 75-80mph) for the delete and with the delete afterwards (140 miles on the way back with shorter trip miles and lower speed for the most part after that). The tank I'm on now should easily see in the mid 50s. Even at the higher speeds, if your holding that throttle steady, the mpgs just climb, very happy.

I'm seeing similar numbers. I'm on my second tank and probably would have averaged about 48 mpg except I blew it on the way home on Friday night. I was trying to get home quickly and my right foot was feeling a bit frisky. Even so, I think I can get at least 550 miles out of this tank before heaving to fill up again.

South Coast Guy · Oct 20, 2013

Oilerlord said:
Amstel78 referenced buses in Jaipur, India - and hit the nail on the head. I've been to India, and until you've landed in Delhi; you really don't have an understanding for polluted air. Air pollution has turned the Taj Mahal in Agra from a pure white to beige/brown. I've visited industrialized cities in China (like Guangzhou) that have similar pollution issues.

The worst air quality index days in the US don't even come close to what you'll experience in those cities. Your crusade should start overseas. Once you fix India, I promise to re-attach my DPF. Until then, you have bigger fish to fry than the handful of guys with DPF deletes.

I don't live in those cities, but I do live here in the US. Using your logic, I guess it would be okay to use leaded fuel in my gasser. Who cares about lead in the environment?

jtdi15 · Oct 20, 2013

amstel78 said:
I know that the federal emissions warranty only covers the DPF filter and OBDII. I don't know about the cats. Also, according to VW, the EGR components are only 2 years/24k miles.
Either way, I was going to have to pay some money. In my case, I'd rather just pay once and cry once. I'll never have to worry about the emissions system again. Let's just hope now that the HPFP doesn't explode... lol.

Out of curiosity has anyone had hpfp failure with exhaust/tune? Idk if I have ever came across anyone with that problem on here.

BuzzKen · Oct 20, 2013

jtdi15 said:
Out of curiosity has anyone had hpfp failure with exhaust/tune? Idk if I have ever came across anyone with that problem on here.

Awesome question!

Oilerlord · Oct 20, 2013

jay_fyp said:
Oh and by the way, to give some more praise about the tune. Just very slightly passed the halfway mark on my fuel gauge on my second tank of fuel since the delete and at 428 miles This is all mixed driving (Including highway speeds, having fun with the torque and regular 55mph roads). The DPF delete is just what these cars ordered.
First Tank of fuel is in my fuelly, 49.6. That was a combo of stage II without delete on the drive to Dieseldubs (140 miles 75-80mph) for the delete and with the delete afterwards (140 miles on the way back with shorter trip miles and lower speed for the most part after that). The tank I'm on now should easily see in the mid 50s. Even at the higher speeds, if your holding that throttle steady, the mpgs just climb, very happy.

That's been my experience too. About a 10% improvement in FE. My Fuelly average has been climbing since July. I did the Malone DSG flash too. Shifts even quicker than before, has a true manual mode, and also displays the current gear. I'm sure this is the car VW engineers wanted to build.

Savageman69 · Oct 20, 2013

couldnt have done my 900+ mile 60 us mpg tank without malone stage 2

....This is the way the car should be...and maybe a cr170 turbo will be even better lol...soon maybe lol

rotarykid · Oct 20, 2013

if I were you I would make sure I put the currently offered fuel system fine particle filter on to keep the little bits from trashing your fuel system if the HPFP fails.

With all of that stuff removed I would expect VW not to be willing to touch that car with a 10 meter pole if the HPFP implodes!

jay_fyp · Oct 20, 2013

Savageman69 said:
couldnt have done my 900+ mile 60 us mpg tank without malone stage 2 ....This is the way the car should be...and maybe a cr170 turbo will be even better lol...soon maybe lol

Yeah that's pretty awesome, saw your thread. I will be hitting over 800 on this tank. This is definitely the way the car should be. Did you end up doing that 900+ run with 15s or 17s on?

Savageman69 · Oct 20, 2013

rotarykid said:
if I were you I would make sure I put the currently offered fuel system fine particle filter on to keep the little bits from trashing your fuel system if the HPFP fails.

With all of that stuff removed I would expect VW not to be willing to touch that car with a 10 meter pole if the HPFP implodes!

im not worried about hpfp

jay_fyp said:
Yeah that's pretty awesome, saw your thread. I will be hitting over 800 on this tank. This is definitely the way the car should be. Did you end up doing that 900+ run with 15s or 17s on?

17s

bassman5066 · Oct 21, 2013

amstel78 said:
Not sure if T6 is 505.01 compliant. I'll check. Am more concerned about the thicker viscosity of going up to 40 weight oil. From what I've seen from UOAs, the T6 seems to be pretty good. TBN (10.6) isn't bad either. I think the TBN of my current oil (LiquiMoly TopTec 4200) is only 6.5.

FWIW, T6 does not list any VW spec. I just stopped in at auto zone looking for standyne (didn't have that either...) and checked the T6 bottle and all the other diesel oils. They do not carry any diesel oil that lists a VW spec. If your concerned about weight, I saw Rotella has a T5 10W30, but still no VW spec.

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amstel78 · Oct 21, 2013

Thanks, I suppose I'll just have to give the T6 a try and then get a UOA. I don't see why it wouldn't be any worse than what I'm using now, especially given the higher TBN rating. Plus, Rotella is a tried and proven oil that's in use in many high-dollar diesel engines.

MertCheney · Oct 21, 2013

While the original author of this thread posted a disclaimer advising that removing smog equipment is illegal and not for everyone I find it disturbing that he revels in his removal of this equipment because he gains more power and better fuel economy. While doing this the implication is that because of these tunes his car runs as clean as smog cars. The truth is that more NOX is produced as well as healthy amounts of soot which has long been proven to be a detriment to the air we all breath. In the late 70's many cut the cat converters off their autos for better performance creating gross polluters. Today all cars still have this equipment but few remove it because very little is gained and todays gas and diesel autos run very clean and with proper maintenance hold up well. While I am not a tree hugger by any means I do believe we have a responsibility to protect our environment for ourselves, our children and future generations. I just feel this needs to be said--you can bash me for this but I am not wrong, just concerned.

Mert Cheney

amstel78 · Oct 21, 2013

I'm not going to bash you Mert. Everyone's entitled to their opinions. But, what most people seem to forget is that the the newer CR motors even without the DPF is still far cleaner in terms of emissions than the older PD or rotary pump motors. Most also fail to see that gasoline powered vehicles have been one of the largest contributors to nanoparticle based airborne pollution (apart from coal plants and heavy industry).

I too am concerned about overall air quality. I have two young girls that I'd like to see grow up healthy in a clean environment. But, simply addressing a poorly designed emissions system by constantly fixing or replacing components is not going to change anything.

At least now, I use less fuel than I used to before. Soot while ugly and noxious is composed of particles that are far larger than the nano-sized carcinogenic emissions that would have come out of my exhaust pipe with the DPF still attached. Finally, there's one less precious metal filter out there that has to be mined from the ground then created in a factory to replace my broken unit.

There are trade-offs, pros, and cons to everything.

KraftwerkB6 · Oct 21, 2013

amstel78, have you gotten your cay dyno'd yet?
saw on previous page the other person with same setup?, got thier car dyno'd and showed 352 tq. Just wanting to see if you got more or less, even more so with your front egr delete. When i got my malone stage 2 tune a while back, i had it dyno'd but only got around 270TQ. kinda wierd a 80 tq diffrecne with same setup pretty much.

jay_fyp · Oct 21, 2013

KraftwerkB6 said:
amstel78, have you gotten your cay dyno'd yet?
saw on previous page the other person with same setup?, got thier car dyno'd and showed 352 tq. Just wanting to see if you got more or less, even more so with your front egr delete. When i got my malone stage 2 tune a while back, i had it dyno'd but only got around 270TQ. kinda wierd a 80 tq diffrecne with same setup pretty much.

There are variables between different dyno machines though, also altitude, etc. But even so, 270tq is even below what Mark advertises, weird.

JFettig · Oct 21, 2013

You also have different loading on the dyno, less load and the turbo won't spool up as fast - if you have a boost gauge, watch the RPM that you hit requested boost in 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th gear, its a similar thing with dynos.

amstel78 · Oct 21, 2013

KraftwerkB6 said:
amstel78, have you gotten your cay dyno'd yet?
saw on previous page the other person with same setup?, got thier car dyno'd and showed 352 tq. Just wanting to see if you got more or less, even more so with your front egr delete. When i got my malone stage 2 tune a while back, i had it dyno'd but only got around 270TQ. kinda wierd a 80 tq diffrecne with same setup pretty much.

No, I haven't yet but I'm probably in the neighborhood of bassman's output. I'm hitting the damper limits on the DMF under low RPM, peak torque conditions. Also, the race pipe might have something to do with a little extra torque due to the clean air path.

Agreed with the others though, your reading of 270 seems strangely low. What sort of dyno did you use? I think according to Les over at DD, bassman used a 4 wheel Mustang dyno and the rear roller calibrated to simulate road conditions.

bassman5066 · Oct 21, 2013

amstel78 said:
No, I haven't yet but I'm probably in the neighborhood of bassman's output. I'm hitting the damper limits on the DMF under low RPM, peak torque conditions. Also, the race pipe might have something to do with a little extra torque due to the clean air path.

Agreed with the others though, your reading of 270 seems strangely low. What sort of dyno did you use? I think according to Les over at DD, bassman used a 4 wheel Mustang dyno and the rear roller calibrated to simulate road conditions.

If anything I think the race pipe would only help with peak power in the high Rs. Same idea with the turbo dampener delete. AFIK, the only differences between our cars is I have the 2.5" GTI style cat back, you have the OE muffler. I did not delete the EGR valve (race pipe) and you did. You didn't get the Eco tune did you?

Kraftwerk, did you delete the DPF? Your torque number sounds more like the Malone tune on a stock exhaust.

Edit: I also wrapped the DP in header wrap prior to the install. Not sure how much bearing that has on the numbers, but I could see it helping with low end turbo spool and torque by keeping all the heat inside the exhaust, therefore keeping exhaust gas velocity higher.

Under hood temps are WAY down. That's one of the firs things I noticed when I got home from DD.

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bassman5066 · Oct 21, 2013

Duplicate post

amstel78 · Oct 21, 2013

I was thinking about wrapping the pipe but forgot to bring the roll with me when I got to Les' place.

As for the econotune, I think Les said it was automatically included in all stage 2 tunes unless you specifically didn't want it. You yourself may have the econotune map as well.

Either way though, butt dyno tells me that there's a whole lot more torque and HP than there was before.

Edit: one thing I forgot to mention was that prior to the tune, my MFD average MPG readout was always 2 to 2.5 mpg higher than what I actually achieved and measured by hand calculations. Now, the MFD seems to be right on. For instance, I filled up this morning and the MFD reported 43.5 mpg while my paper calculations came up with 43.4.

bassman5066 · Oct 21, 2013

amstel78 said:
I was thinking about wrapping the pipe but forgot to bring the roll with me when I got to Les' place.

As for the econotune, I think Les said it was automatically included in all stage 2 tunes unless you specifically didn't want it. You yourself may have the econotune map as well.

Either way though, butt dyno tells me that there's a whole lot more torque and HP than there was before.

Edit: one thing I forgot to mention was that prior to the tune, my MFD average MPG readout was always 2 to 2.5 mpg higher than what I actually achieved and measured by hand calculations. Now, the MFD seems to be right on. For instance, I filled up this morning and the MFD reported 43.5 mpg while my paper calculations came up with 43.3.

Applying my wrap was a 2 day affair, but I think I got the good stuff. I Bought it from Design Engineering (the us SPA turbo dealer) and it was a kit that came with the wrap, metal clamps, and a sealing spray that was like a thick spray paint. You apply the roll wet, let it dry, and then spray it with a couple coats of sealer.

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amstel78 · Oct 21, 2013

Oh you definitely got the good stuff then. Mine was just a simple roll of titanium wrap with metal bands. I would have applied wet as well but no sealer was included with what I have.

How is your MFD mpg readout after the tune?

bassman5066 · Oct 21, 2013

amstel78 said:
Oh you definitely got the good stuff then. Mine was just a simple roll of titanium wrap with metal bands. I would have applied wet as well but no sealer was included with what I have.

How is your MFD mpg readout after the tune?

They do sell just the sealant if you wanna use it. I got mine from amazon but it was through DEI. I got a V8 header kit which came with 2 rolls, the sealant and clamps for $90. 1 roll was enough for my downpipe so I have another roll for my other car.

Another difference with my car is I didn't buy my downpipe from DD. I got mine from Performance Diesel Engineering. Les mentioned the main difference between mine and his was the placement of the flexpipe. Let me see if I can dig up some pics of mine.

Edit: Found them

http://jamespaulsarte.com/temp/cars/golf/bassman01.jpg
http://jamespaulsarte.com/temp/cars/golf/bassman02.jpg

I was going to ask you the same thing. It seems to be a lot more accurate than it was from the factory. Before, it would be around 2 mpg high (or "optimistic") but now it seems to be close to spot on based on my Fuelly tank readings. I reset the 2nd tripometer every time I fill up and it has been within .5 mpg of the Fuelly calculation every time.

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JKC_NC · Oct 21, 2013

amstel78 said:
I'm not going to bash you Mert. Everyone's entitled to their opinions....

...

...Finally, there's one less precious metal filter out there that has to be mined from the ground then created in a factory to replace my broken unit.

There are trade-offs, pros, and cons to everything.

You've repeated red text more than once...it is false. The catalytic converter in cars contain precious metals (Pt/Pd). They catalyze the burning (oxidation) of unburned hyrdocarbons. The Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) is an entirely different beast...it is a physical filter (small pores) not a precious metal catalyst.

While talking about DPF, there is another misconception I've seen. DPF fails due to *non carbon*, *non combustable* material in the fuel/oil. It fails due to "white ash" not due to "soot". The "soot" gets burned off, the "white ash" does not. This is why we need the special oil...it is low in the stuff that leaves "white ash".

I don't want to enter the debate about whether it is better to use more fuel to achieve "cleaner emissions" (bigger Carbon footprint, lower "pollution") or to use less fuel but with slightly "dirter emmissions" (smaller Carbon footprint, higher "pollution"), but do want to set straight that DPF do not require precious metals.

Cheers,

Joe

amstel78 · Oct 22, 2013

Thanks for the pic Bassman but you could resize them? They're huge!!

bassman5066 · Oct 22, 2013

amstel78 said:
Thanks for the pic Bassman but you could resize them? They're huge!!

I tried. When I get off work I'll have to resize and reupload the original files. Photobucket won't let me save my resized image because I hit my limit with them. TDIClub has the resize part of the bb code turned off. Your supposed to be able to type "[IMG=100x200]link[/IMG]" but that didn't work.

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KraftwerkB6 · Oct 22, 2013

bassman5066 said:
Kraftwerk, did you delete the DPF? Your torque number sounds more like the Malone tune on a stock exhaust.

amstel78 said:
Agreed with the others though, your reading of 270 seems strangely low. What sort of dyno did you use? I think according to Les over at DD, bassman used a 4 wheel Mustang dyno and the rear roller calibrated to simulate road conditions.

yea, it was 2 years ago lol, but stage 2 tune, dpf and egr delete into custom exhaust on a dyno dynamics. Ive always thoguht it seemed kinda slow some times but more so after you have been sitting in it for 2.5years haha.
Its much faster then my brothers stock mkvi tdi golf so ive not felt too bad.
I do know that the dyno i used was well known for being a heartbreaker..

bassman5066 · Oct 22, 2013

KraftwerkB6 said:
yea, it was 2 years ago lol, but stage 2 tune, dpf and egr delete into custom exhaust on a dyno dynamics. Ive always thoguht it seemed kinda slow some times but more so after you have been sitting in it for 2.5years haha.
Its much faster then my brothers stock mkvi tdi golf so ive not felt too bad.
I do know that the dyno i used was well known for being a heartbreaker..

Hmm...

I'm thinking one of two things. You may have gotten an old version of the tune that has since been updated, in which case you would reflash. The other possibility is your custom downpipe has some sort of restriction that ours doesn't (most likely at a bend if your pipe is also 2.5" like ours).

Les mentioned that Mark @ Malone has gone through countless versions of the same tune, so that may be worth looking into.

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A day at Diesel Dubs (DPF and EGR valve delete)

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