Passat Replacement based cabin size?

mtbsteve said:

Loving (a very strong term for a PHEV) my Sonata Limited plug in hybrid so far. Even in an area with high electric rates it is working out well. Turns out the 27 miles of electric range is understated, usually can get 4-5 more if I am in stop and go traffic so this covers half of my commute. I can also choose when to use all EV or hybrid so can easily tune it to my expected traffic patterns to maximize mpgs. This helps offset the high ~$0.21 per kwh for electricity. Based on my commute where 45 mpgs is attainable without trouble in regular hybrid mode, even with cheap RUG around $2.25/gal my cost per mile is about =.

The drive style is a little different but the Sonata plug in feels quicker and is quieter and smoother. I am a much calmer driver in it. I drove the TDI the last 2 days, can only drive 1 more commute before turn in or else I could lose $400+ on buy back and was happy to get back in the Sonata. Ergonomically better and just a really nice car.

Oh, and because no one is buying them, it went from $39.7k MSRP down to $30k with dealer discounts and incentives. Then, take another $4919 for federal tax credit and $1500 from the state and I am at $24k for a brand new car with low maintenance costs and great warranty (lifetime hybrid battery to original owner) that is only $3.5k more than the buyback offer on my 2012 Passat TDI that I used for 5 years, 85k miles.

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Good review! Thanks!

I test drove a multitude of cars to find the best one. While driving the BMW 5 I remarked that it seemed to have a smaller interior than that of the Passat. The salesmen tried to argue the point but I let it go. Of all the cars I drove, the Mazda 6 with manual transmission came out on top. It is a little smaller inside than the Passat but I'm quite pleased with it. A bonus is that now all the Mazda 6 are made in Japan.

The NMS Passat is right in between the full-size SWB and full-size LWB luxury sedans.

So, the only way to get NMS levels of space out of a BMW is to get a 7-series LWB.

bhtooefr said:

The NMS Passat is right in between the full-size SWB and full-size LWB luxury sedans.

So, the only way to get NMS levels of space out of a BMW is to get a 7-series LWB.

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Or an Audi A8L, if you want to stay within the brand. The regular wheelbase A8 does not have as much rear leg room as the NMS Passat, although it is a bit wider.

its the perfect size for us as well- if they made a NMS hatch that would be amazing. What engine did VW use on the Passat TDI from 08-11?

There wasn't one in the US.

In Europe, the 140 HP 2.0 option would've been similar to the CBEA or CJAA.

wyrosjr said:

I test drove a multitude of cars to find the best one. While driving the BMW 5 I remarked that it seemed to have a smaller interior than that of the Passat. The salesmen tried to argue the point but I let it go. Of all the cars I drove, the Mazda 6 with manual transmission came out on top. It is a little smaller inside than the Passat but I'm quite pleased with it. A bonus is that now all the Mazda 6 are made in Japan.

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Yeah...you weren't imagining it. I've got a buddy with a late model 5 series. Whenever I ride in it, I'm surprised by how small the interior is. Regardless of how I adjust the passenger seat, it's just not a comfortable car to ride in.

My parents have a late model E class. I've driven and ridden in that car (front and backseat) many times. The E class is definitely down more comfortable to ride in than the 5 series.

That and aesthetics...I think you either like one or the other. I've never been a fan of the interiors in BMW's.

I ended up with a 2015 MB E-250. The back seat legroom is a lot smaller than my Passat but I didn't find anything else I liked.

Just updating a thread I started. Ending up replacing with 2016 Passat 1.8T. I know I said I wanted to get away from VW but I just realized I was so much more comfortable in the Cabin in this car versus anything else in its class. Accord and Camry seemed way smaller and did not drive as well.

It came down to an Avalon or a Passat. The Avalon did have a great ride and I loved the V6 in the Avalon but it was way more expensive. I would have had to get an older more miles Avalon based on the deal I found on the Passat.

I got this Platinum Gray 2016 Passat 1.8T with Technology package for $18,325 plus TT&L delivered to my Door. about $19,500 Total. I thought it was an end of year steal.

Here are a couple of pictures. 1st is with the 17" Alloys that came with it.
(Now on TDI going back to VW.)

2nd is with the 18" Spokane's from 2013 TDI with Pirelli P7 Cinturato with 245/45/18 tires to give me a little more rim protection and better ride. Worth the swap for looks alone IMO. Thanks for all the input and advice.

We got a 2016 Jaguar XF Prestige AWD, Super year end deal...28% off. I love it, a little smaller than the Passat but incredible in every other way!

mc4nam said:

2nd is with the 18" Spokane's from 2013 TDI with Pirelli P7 Cinturato with 245/45/18 tires to give me a little more rim protection and better ride. Worth the swap for looks alone IMO. Thanks for all the input and advice.

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Sorry to burst your bubble, but the 17s will give you a much better "ride", and better MPG. The 18s maybe...maybe...give you better handling, but the ride won't be as cushy.
I agree the LOOK of the 18s is better, though!

tdiatlast said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the 17s will give you a much better "ride", and better MPG. The 18s maybe...maybe...give you better handling, but the ride won't be as cushy.
I agree the LOOK of the 18s is better, though!

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I understand. I drove it for a week or so with the 17's and it is a better ride but not much better. I am used to the 18's on the TDI with crappy factory 235/45/18 Bridgestones EL-400's. The 245/45/18 Pirelli P7 Cinturato's feels quite a bit better and also quieter than either tire.

Not as soft as 17's but wider tire and rim makes me feel a little more connected to the road. Fair trade off since all that is keeping car connected to road is those 4 small patches of rubber.

Update on 2014 Avalon Hybrid (bought for $29k with 12k miles on the odo). This is NOT a comparison to the NMS Passat, just an evaluation after an almost 4k mile road trip, Ft. Worth, TX to Bradenton, FL: car loaded to capacity, 4 adults, 45lbs of dogs.

I have zero regrets. Averaged 37.8mpg, traveling 75-80mph, including through the amazing downpours/tornadoes on Jan. 2 in Ala/Miss. Front end "wandering" was corrected by bringing the toe into specs. Solid, stable, QUIET cabin (Michelin MXV4s...amazing), everything works as designed: rain-sensing wipers, back-up camera, nav, head-unit flawless. Comfortable seats, almost silent HVAC (35f-83f ambient), trunk capacity 2cu/ft. less than Passat, but is more square, so it's just different. Plenty of passing grunt, never felt under-powered.

Yes, it's an Avalon (more floaty), it's a different class ($45k vs. $33k), so all areas more luxurious. Just thought I'd post this for anyone thinking about leaping from VW to Toyota. (I've been driving VWs since 1983). (Also, there are 2014 Avalon V6s available around $23-26k)

I test drove two pre-owned C-Max and really liked the sitting position and comfort. I am wondering about its reliability.
tdiatlast, pm sent.

As the time drew near to turn in the '14 TDI SEL, I stepped up my search for the replacement. I loved most things about the VW, but didn't want to get another VW. My choices were limited because I had to have HD FM radio. My short list included a '17 Ford Fusion Sport. Decent room, not quite as nice a ride as the VW, but lots more HP, but that came with 26mpg highway rating!

I wound up buying a used '14 Impala. '14 was the last year GM put HD ratio in most of their vehicles. The Impala has good room, and although it looks and seems bigger outside, the differences are just a few inches, and parking in my garage is the same as before. I love this car, I didn't want something that shouted "look at me" and wanted something mostly American. One reason I got the VW Passat was the factory in TN. Impala is made in Detroit. So far I love the car and have gotten up to 34.4 mpg on a long interstate trip at up to 75 mph with some city driving and stop and go included. Typical tank is in the mid-upper 20's. I got this car cheap enough that I can trade it for something else if the perfect car comes along in the near future.

bhtooefr said:

The NMS Passat is right in between the full-size SWB and full-size LWB luxury sedans.
So, the only way to get NMS levels of space out of a BMW is to get a 7-series LWB.

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Good points. For me, NMS is the best choice, be it TSI or TDI.

MyAvocation said:

Good points. For me, NMS is the best choice, be it TSI or TDI.

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For these same reasons, we like our NMS a lot. But I'm really concerned about replacing it when the '13 TDI gets turned in (which it will) late in 2018. While something acceptable may come along before then, I'm not making any bets.
The problem with getting a new NMS is that I'm really concerned that the 170 HP TSI engine just really isn't going to cut it for us, coupled with the loss of the DSG. To get the power and DSG back, the only way to go is to get the VR6, and I'm just not sure we can accept its fuel efficiency.

Reading the number of people lamenting the size and fuel economy of the Passat, why not take the fix and money when it comes along?

I have looked for replacements and cannot find a good comparables for interior room, economy and price point.

If one wants out of the Passat, then this is likely a great time to do it, however for me doing 30 to 35,000 miles I have no wish to sell.

+1 but the fix money is a ways off from what I gather

BCPassat said:

Reading the number of people lamenting the size and fuel economy of the Passat, why not take the fix and money when it comes along?
I have looked for replacements and cannot find a good comparables for interior room, economy and price point.
If one wants out of the Passat, then this is likely a great time to do it, however for me doing 30 to 35,000 miles I have no wish to sell.

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I admit that we have never contemplated the fix very seriously. By the time we have to turn this '13 Passat TDI in (I figure as late as possible, Dec. '18), we'll have had it 5 1/2 years and probably have 70-80K miles on it. That's not all that many miles when considering the diesel aspect of wear & tear, but any car has other systems which all require repair / replacement: brakes, suspension, alternator, HVAC, etc. This is not considering the somewhat troublesome track record of major repairs to the turbocharger, fuel system, and emissions. I just cannot see that we're not better off taking a few thousand less than we paid for the car and moving to something else.
That being said, I have no complaints about this specific car, our first experience with a diesel. Except for a failed NOx sensor early on, fixed under warranty, it's been great.

Rico567 said:

The problem with getting a new NMS is that I'm really concerned that the 170 HP TSI engine just really isn't going to cut it for us, coupled with the loss of the DSG. To get the power and DSG back, the only way to go is to get the VR6, and I'm just not sure we can accept its fuel efficiency.

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I hear ya. 23/34MPG (27 combined) TSI is unimpressive. The only thing keeping me from another TDI (other than stop sale) is reliability/replacement cost of latest emissions add-ons. At annual mileage of 40K+, it's a no-brainer, but at 12K I expect the TCO and ROI to favor the TSI.

MyAvocation said:

I hear ya. 23/34MPG (27 combined) TSI is unimpressive. The only thing keeping me from another TDI (other than stop sale) is reliability/replacement cost of latest emissions add-ons. At annual mileage of 40K+, it's a no-brainer, but at 12K I expect the TCO and ROI to favor the TSI.

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Don't forget that the 23/34 is on the new fuel economy scales. They were rated at 38 highway last year, using the same scale as when the TDIs got 42-45. Now take that 45 and reduce it 5% for the modifications (guesstimate), take some more of that advantage away for diesel costing more in much of the country, remove some to pay for the additives that I use, and remove a final chunk to pay for diesel fuel filters...I suspect you're right, the TSI will win for costs in the long run

I wasn't aware that the EPA changed their measurement system recently. I know they did several years ago.

And the DSG Passat TDI was, IIRC, rated 40 MPG highway. Since the TSI is only available with an automatic, that seems to be a fair comparison. Difference is 15% or so by my math, and diesel currently is about 10% more expensive than RUG. So it's pretty close to a wash in fuel costs.

What the EPA did is revise the coast down procedures, to ensure that the coast down data is accurate.

Because they started collecting this data in 2011, however, quite a few cars going back to 2011 have had their numbers revised downward on fueleconomy.gov.

So folks, is the gasser Passat worth getting over a similarly priced sedan made by someone else?

I said I would never buy VW unless it was TDI, but here I am trying to convince myself that I buying a Passat is okay just because I'll enjoy having it more than the run of the mill Honda or Toyota.

MedicPatriot said:

So folks, is the gasser Passat worth getting over a similarly priced sedan made by someone else?

I said I would never buy VW unless it was TDI, but here I am trying to convince myself that I buying a Passat is okay just because I'll enjoy having it more than the run of the mill Honda or Toyota.

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Speaking for myself, there is a chance we could end up with an Accord after the buyback (Toyota, no way). But I'm not kidding myself that either of those cars would match the "euro sedan" driving experience. I've driven enough Japanese / Korean cars to know that, and as SAAB owners for over 40 years, we kinda got spoiled that way. We really like the NMS Passat, and the TSI version is a prime contender for a replacement; I just can't get past the fuel efficiency of the VR6, or that one would probably clinch it.
There are actually US makes that are going to drive as well as the Japanese cars, and something like the Buick Regal is just an Opel Insignia with different cosmetics, and looks promising. My problem with Buick specifically would be buying from Government Motors. I would have no such problem with Ford, if I could find one I liked.

Rico567: "...(Toyota, no way)..."
After owning for a brief time (not brief enough!!!) a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid, I used to agree with you.
Alas, now, 10 years later, 10 years older, I've succumbed to trying another one.
With the emphasis on "10 years older" (I'm 62), I have absolutely zero regrets with our Avalon Hybrid Limited. We've put 12 k miles on the car. I had to get the FE alignment corrected (wandered a bit), and now the car is rock solid at cruising speeds, amazingly quiet, plenty of HP, and still getting 39mpg overall. Softer suspension than I like, but with the DFW's infamous concrete highway issues, I no longer pucker over nasty expansion cracks the way I did with our NMS Passat.
Now, dealing with the stigma of owning an "old fart's car"?...well, I guess I'm just going to have to get over it!

Rico567 said:

something like the Buick Regal is just an Opel Insignia with different cosmetics, and looks promising. My problem with Buick specifically would be buying from Government Motors.

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Having rented an Insignia fastback in France it was a decent driving car. It might be a totoally different experience without the turbo diesel stick shift in the US. I averaged 43 mpg US.

This is our Passat replacement, a CPO 2015 MAZDA6. With the exception of rear head room, the interior sizes were comparable, the driving dynamics are significantly better, fuel economy for the majority of my wife's driving was close enough, and it was much more fully equipped than the SE we had in order to get the manual. All that for a shorter loan term and a lower monthly payment.

The only downside is that we did end up with an automatic, which was a trade off we were willing to make.

tdiatlast said:

Rico567: "...(Toyota, no way)..."
After owning for a brief time (not brief enough!!!) a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid, I used to agree with you.
Alas, now, 10 years later, 10 years older, I've succumbed to trying another one.
With the emphasis on "10 years older" (I'm 62), I have absolutely zero regrets with our Avalon Hybrid Limited.

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To be honest, I'm curious about how well the 2018 Camry will drive. I'm not in the market for it, but I'm curious.

Toyota's been making a lot of noise about it being more fun to drive, which... OK, they've made that claim many times before when it just means that they stiffened up the shocks a touch, but this time, I wouldn't be surprised if it's real.

The 2018 Camry's a TNGA car - same architecture (different platform, though, apparently) as the Gen 4 Prius, which I'm almost completely satisfied with the driving dynamics of (braking feel is the only area where it really needs a major improvement). Toyota's saying that it has a "new double wishbone" suspension, but I think that's actually wrong - the Gen 4 Prius also has a "double wishbone" suspension that's actually just a straight copy of the Mk5/6/7 Golf rear suspension, which is in turn a refined copy of the Mk1 Ford Focus rear suspension (and therefore isn't double wishbone at all). The old Camry had (effectively) a Chapman (think MacPherson, but not turning) strut rear, it looks like. And, steering feel is vastly improved over previous Prii, so I wouldn't be surprised if that gets applied to the Camry, too.

Battery packaging will also be greatly improved on the hybrid - you're well aware of the battery hump that both your 2007 Camry and your Avalon have in the trunk, but the TNGA cars go for putting the battery under the rear seat (eating into the fuel tank space, yes) instead. In the Prius, I think they did it to make room for the rear suspension, as previous Prii had a twist beam (although the CT 200h and European-market Auris hybrid have a fairly similar rear suspension to the Gen 4 Prius, and had the battery in the same location as previous Prii). The Camry, though, will benefit quite a lot, I think.

And, it'll almost certainly be more powerful, and more efficient - they're talking about nearly Gen 4 Prius efficiency (noting that the worst Gen 4 is 54 city, 50 highway) out of a Camry Hybrid that, in all likelihood, has ~220 hp.