Vibration through clutch pedal when I rest my foot

My car has always had a bit more than normal vibration felt through the steering wheel and even the shifter a little bit. The harshness varies depending on RPM but it never truly goes away and makes long drives a bit fatiguing. I can especially feel the vibration through the clutch pedal when I rest my foot on it without pushing it down. As I depress the clutch more than an inch or two the vibration in the pedal goes away (but can still be felt through steering wheel).

My guess has been that this likely has to do with the DMF and that a new clutch/DMF (and associated bits) would have a good chance of clearing this up. I'm not super knowledgeable about the clutch setup on these cars so for the gurus out there, does this sound reasonable to you? Or am I likely barking up the wrong tree. Any chance this is coming from the engine itself from some other imbalance?

Other relevant info: 2003 wagon with 90K miles (yes very low mileage). Clutch was replaced by previous owner at 25K miles for some reason. Was done at dealership. Not sure why it was done so early. Invoice says "customer believes clutch is gone" and lists a "230mm clutch kit" for CAD $569 so not sure what all was included with that. I think the previous owner did some long haul towing so that is probably a contributor.

Edit: Sorry I should have indicated that the vibration occurs even when the vehicle is parked. No relation to speed so not related to wheel balancing/CV joints/axle shafts/etc.

Can feel it at idle and then it gets a bit better with increasing revs until it returns around 1900, and then again around 2900. Definitely seems to go in and out of resonance.

If vibration changes with engine speed, it's definitely something in that rotating mass. Maybe the previous owner tried to fix it, then sold it admitting defeat. I'd lean away from the clutch as the problem, but wouldn't eliminate it just yet. How's the harmonic balancer doing? Rubber could have dry rotted causing said vibrations.

Vibration is difficult to diagnose without driving it myself.
Does it increase, decrease, stay the same at different speeds? Or does it depend on RPM?
If it changes with vehicle speed then alignment and associated parts are suspect. If it only gets slightly worse from 20mph to 80mph it could be bushings.
If it varies with engine speed engine mount bushings are more likely than the clutch. However, don't rule out the clutch just yet.

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

Sorry I should have indicated that the vibration occurs even when the vehicle is parked. No relation to speed so not related to wheel balancing/CV joints/ axle shafts/etc.

Can feel it at idle and then it gets a bit better with increasing revs until it returns around 1900, and then again around 2900. Definitely seems to go in and out of resonance.

DMF likely coming apart.

Nero Morg said:

Maybe the previous owner tried to fix it, then sold it admitting defeat.

Click to expand...

No I don't think so. The clutch was changed in 2007. He drove it for years until he died, and then his wife drove it for a few more years until she sold it to her longtime mechanic (at a local German specialist) who then sold it to me.

Will look into harmonic balancer.

oilhammer said:

DMF likely coming apart.

Click to expand...

Any thoughts on the harmonic balancer hypothesis mentioned above?

Never heard of that, and your 2003 likely doesn't have one anyway. Just a simple pulley. The late ALHs do not have the rubber ring type pulley, or at least not like the early ones do. VAG sort of switches back and forth with these. And that would have no impact on your clutch pedal anyway.

Interweb guess the dealer left the flywheel in when they did the repair. Whenever that was done it seems like a premature failure.

So how many 2003 TDI's have you driven? I don't want to make any assumption's either way, a diesel does vibrate more than a gasser.
Based on your description I lean towards a normal engine vibration and mount bushings that transfer the vibration.
It could be clutch related, however, in another post a member had gone 360k miles on his original dual mass clutch..
As said before the dealer could have left the flywheel and changed the clutch plate and other parts making it more possible the flywheel is prematurely failing due to age more than use.

All that said, maybe a near by member would be able to meet and help diagnose and possibly let you drive theirs for comparison.
Those pedals vibrating say body vibration more than anything


Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

eddieleephd said:

So how many 2003 TDI's have you driven? I don't want to make any assumption's either way, a diesel does vibrate more than a gasser.
Based on your description I lean towards a normal engine vibration and mount bushings that transfer the vibration.
It could be clutch related, however, in another post a member had gone 360k miles on his original dual mass clutch..
As said before the dealer could have left the flywheel and changed the clutch plate and other parts making it more possible the flywheel is prematurely failing due to age more than use.

All that said, maybe a near by member would be able to meet and help diagnose and possibly let you drive theirs for comparison.
Those pedals vibrating say body vibration more than anything


Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I owned a 2003 Jetta for a couple years previous to this one. Also tested one in the parking lot at the mechanics when I mentioned this to him. I agree they all have more vibration than a gasser but mine is definitely worse than it should be and it fatigues my hands and sometimes even my feet through the gas pedal/floor.

I did replace the driver's side mount recently. Haven't done the other but it's probably worth a shot just to be sure.

I didn’t notice any mention of the dogbone mount, generally wear quicker than other mounts and can cause vibration at idle. Usually can feel them if you go off and on the throttle while cruising, or noticeable by another set of eyes when going between forward and reverse. I like dismissing the cheap and easy fixes before going toward the more involved or expensive repairs.

So, what I am saying, even though the clutch sounds very likely, start simple and work toward it. Donna’s DMF didn’t hold up to high speed and had similar symptoms before going out completely. SMF vr6 setups in both our cars now

jmodge said:

So, what I am saying, even though the clutch sounds very likely, start simple and work toward it. Donna’s DMF didn’t hold up to high speed and had similar symptoms before going out completely. SMF vr6 setups in both our cars now

Click to expand...

I think you're right about doing the dog bone first, especially because you can get bushings for it.
Interesting about the dual mass failing in such a way that is similar. The age is the only fact that I see says it's possibly the flywheel, that and the vibration anyhow.


Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

Clutch diagnosis

oilhammer said:

DMF likely coming apart.

Click to expand...

Very likely it is, but is there a way you would verify that before pulling it apart? Can something be noted through the inspection or timing cover? I never had to as one completely failed, and the other was a swap from auto

eddieleephd said:

I think you're right about doing the dog bone first, especially because you can get bushings for it.
Interesting about the dual mass failing in such a way that is similar. The age is the only fact that I see says it's possibly the flywheel, that and the vibration anyhow.


Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Well, not necessarily replace it but start the diagnosis there because it is easy, quick, and costs nothing to do so.

I didn't think the dogbone had a lot to do with damping engine vibration but was more just about bracing the engine/transmission under load (i.e. moderating that forward/backward motion). My vibration happens sitting still but also while cruising at highway speeds (again, varying slightly with RPM - 2500RPM is better than 2200 or 2900). Would you expect the dogbone to have much of an impact under those conditions?

I wouldn’t call it an expectation, just where I would start the diagnosis . Clutch and transmission being the most expensive and labor intensive I would rule everything out first. Just the way I would go about it.

jmodge said:

Very likely it is, but is there a way you would verify that before pulling it apart? Can something be noted through the inspection or timing cover? I never had to as one completely failed, and the other was a swap from auto

Click to expand...

Yes someone here mentioned about checking the DMF through the inspection hole.
Basically they had the car in neutral ,engine off and with a screwdriver tried to move the pressure plate assy one way then the other while the ring gear is stationary , I believe if it was mor than a 1/4 inch it was toast.
I’ll look for the post and see if I can post it.
Worth a shot.

Couldn’t find the post or where ive seen it but it’s sililar to this but with the trans still installed and the pressureplate is moved with a screwdriver.
Just my .02.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L6KUma4Kf50

jmodge said:

Well, not necessarily replace it but start the diagnosis there because it is easy, quick, and costs nothing to do so.

Click to expand...

Replace the bushings in the dog bone not the dog bone itself. Cheap enough and well, why not.
It can be really difficult to see through the inspection hole.
The dog bone plays as much of a role as the other mounts where vibration is concerned and takes most all the torque from the engine. Look past nothing that is related.

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

One thing I should clarify that may change the diagnosis is that the vibration does not get *worse* with increased RPM. There are actually a couple RPM zones where it is more tolerable than others (e.g. 2500 seems to be a local minimum) but it is just as bad at idle as it is at 2900RPM.

Does that still point to DMF? My gut is now telling me that it's somewhere else. Based on descriptions it seems a DMF vibration would be greater in magnitude but lower in frequency. My vibration through the steering wheel is quite "buzzy" (i.e. like resting your hand directly on the valve cover) rather than a larger oscillation that you might feel with an unbalanced wheel that would cause the whole car to shudder but would be lower frequency.

I have also ordered a new dogbone since I know I had an oil leak (now fixed) that was flowing over the dogbone mount, so there's a decent chance the rubber in there is going bad.

I would likely have gotten new softer bushings, but that's me.
I think you should try the dog bone and let us know what that does. I don't really think it's the DMF personally.

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

eddieleephd said:

I would likely have gotten new softer bushings, but that's me.
I think you should try the dog bone and let us know what that does. I don't really think it's the DMF personally.

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Brand new OEM dogbone installed. No change :-(. Now the dogbone and transmission mounts have been replaced with OEM. Only one left is the right engine mount but there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with it. I might change it anyways since it's the cheapest of the 3, but I'm not optimistic.

No, that's not likely to change anything if the dog bone didn't. What's your timing looking like?

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

So after driving to work this morning (45mins all highway) I actually think it is a bit worse now with the new dogbone. Not a huge amount but maybe 10-15% more buzz feeling through at the wheel/shifter (don't think clutch feel has changed). Which isn't unreasonable I guess since the new rubber is probably stiffer than the worked-in rubber from the old mount. But if a new OEM mount is making the vibration at the wheel/shifter worse then that's telling me that the engine itself is vibrating more than it should and it is not a problem with a mount transmitting too much vibration (I only have 1 left to replace anyways). Which leaves me with what possibilities?

DMF? (always a possibility)
Poor timing? (how do I diagnose that? engine runs like butter so this seems unlikely)
Poor injection timing? (I don't have a VAGCOM but it was adjusted a few months ago by a local TDI guru and I couldn't feel a difference)
Slightly bent rod? (engine runs like butter - this seems unlikely)

Anything else?

I'd have had that trans out and back in by now and fixed.

Yah I know. I've just been worried about the possibility of dropping $1000 on a new clutch+install and still not having the problem solved. The clutch behaviour/engagement is perfectly fine so I've been hesitant to blame the flywheel.

Well if it smells like s**t, looks like s**t and stinks like s**t.......it can only mean one thing.

At first glace at the thread title my first thought was flywheel. Now after reading it all, I still say flywheel.