Quandry: BSM Delete + 5spd swap vs. BSM Gear + Tq. Converter

The time has come to make a decision regarding the future of our much-loved Passat.

I was just about to pull the trigger on the delete when oilhammer posted his side-by-side comparison of the BSM Delete vs. Gear-driven BSM. As a result, we are re-thinking the decision and we'd like to poll you and collect your opinions. This is my wife's daily driver and she does value the auto because of the time she spends in traffic. Were it my car, there would be no question.Let's face it, we all expect the torque converter to fail at some point in its service life where a 5 speed rarely has issues.

Option 1:
BSM Delete + 5speed Swap
Pros: Significantly Cheaper. This turns it into essentially the car it should have been from the factory. Reduced rotating mass and complexity (by substituting parts that are relatively failure proof) and no fear of added vibrations since there is no torque converter to worry about.
Cons: The automatic is lost and would have to be explained to a future buyer, etc. The 5spd swap, while being relatively straightforward, is less than ideal for someone who doesn't want to clutch through 2 hours of traffic a day. She also fears a heavy, poor feeling clutch.

Option 2:
BSM Gear Module and Replaced Torque Converter
Pros: Retaining (and returning to) OE drivability. Smoothness and ease of use in extended periods of stop-and-go traffic.
Cons: Significantly more expensive. Retaining complexity. Some chance of failure (though failures seen are attributed to poor installation at this point).

without a doubt I would go with the gear'ed BSM and a new converter, it's the best option. The 5/6spd would be nice as long as the driver of the car accepts shifting gears but the delete I dont feel is proven yet. Call me crazy as many others have but if I were looking to save money I would re-chain w/new parts as I believe it has a predictible life span. The delete might be a good option or it might not, it will take many more miles to get a reliable expectation of what is to come from doing this. If you are planning on keeping the car go gear'ed just dont wait to long to do something as bad things can and will happen

We are going on 3 trouble-free years with the geared BSM and normal maintenance on the original auto tranny. (That is, a fluid & filter change every 100K miles.) For me alone, the B5 TDI with a manual tranny would be a hands-down favorite, but this car is my wife's principal transportation and she loves it as-is.

The only negative with the Pumpe-Duse TDI system is its relatively poor fuel consumption, in our case 33 mpg in mixed driving over 168K miles. But, compared to the capital outlay for a new car (probably another TDI), the B5V is very nice. With the Rocketchip 2 software, it is both a nice ride and a fun ride. Cargo and interior room is good: no wagon version of the otherwise very well-made Chattanooga Passat is available, and that is a turn-off for me.

The only person you should be asking is the one you need to get into bed with every night. If you wife isn't going to love a 5 speed, you choice is made.

If I had the choice (and the money), I'd take the 5 speed, with or without the BSM, Though I'm already unchained.

johnboy00 said:

The only person you should be asking is the one you need to get into bed with every night. If you wife isn't going to love a 5 speed, you choice is made.

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She isn't sure either, hence the thread.

Geared BSM + keep the auto.

This is coming from someone who just did a BSM delete and a 6 sp swap.
I am disappointed. MPG is up ~15%, which is less than I hoped.
I have a horrible vibration that I still cannot diagnose. Pretty sure it is not the BSM delete, but the possibility eats at me.
Clutch weight is not a concern, I had to fit a LIGHTER spring on the clutch pedal because it was too light with a SBC HD plate.

In hindsight, I would have kept it geared BSM and auto, honestly.

Don't forget that you can always do the BSM swap and put a 5 speed in as well depending on the depth of your pockets.

as long as the final ratio is same, I'd think that not much would be lost in driveability with the 5sp, unless you like rowing gears particularly. A consideration could also be down time and detail stuff like cruise. Probably the installation of a reman vw gearbox, cost about same as conversion with one day downtime.

I wanted to vote for 6spd.

CharlieT said:

Geared BSM + keep the auto.

This is coming from someone who just did a BSM delete and a 6 sp swap.
I am disappointed. MPG is up ~15%, which is less than I hoped.
I have a horrible vibration that I still cannot diagnose. Pretty sure it is not the BSM delete, but the possibility eats at me.
Clutch weight is not a concern, I had to fit a LIGHTER spring on the clutch pedal because it was too light with a SBC HD plate.

In hindsight, I would have kept it geared BSM and auto, honestly.

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Thanks for your assessment of the manual conversion.

Nash_TDI said:

I wanted to vote for 6spd.

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It's cost prohibitive. A true TDI geared 5speed swap should be only a bit more expensive than an 01M-5spd swap.

not same cost as the jetta swap. Sounds like you're going the gear bsm-01V route. You really can't go too far wrong that way. Surprised you're still with a chain drive.

thundershorts said:

Surprised you're still with a chain drive.

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Me too.... Me too...

8000KM with a 5speed swap and BSM delete here! love it and IMO is the way the passat should have come from the factory.

coolsio1234 said:

8000KM with a 5speed swap and BSM delete here! love it and IMO is the way the passat should have come from the factory.

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details please: cost of parts, difficulty of installation and approx labor hours, results and FE improvement. Does the dash have to come out?
When I drive mine, I ponder how much nicer this car might be with a 3rd peddle. The only issue that I have with mine is the neutered driving experience of the auto box.

I am on my second 5 speed swap conversion. The first I installed the geared BSM. The second which I am currently running the delete. I am very happy with it. I also have installed a delete in an automatic car. I am very happy with the results of the 5 speed with delete. It is a lot of fun to drive.

Driving a delete to a geared back to back, there is an ever so slight increase in vibes but nothing objectionable IMHO.

My MPG around town increased 2-4 MPG. The hwy is about the same if not a couple of MPG better. Dash does not have to come out. The nice thing about the 5 speed is that the shift linkage, pedals, tranny mounts, etc. are readily available in the junk yards. Mike at TDtuning has the ECU program worked out for the conversion.

vwztips said:

I am on my second 5 speed swap conversion. The first I installed the geared BSM. The second which I am currently running the delete. I am very happy with it.

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Sorry if this is a thread hijack, but I think it is very relevant to this discussion and anyone who contemplates this choice in the future.

vwztips : On the swap with BSM delete, which code 5 speed did you install ? which flywheel / clutch ?? which engine/trans mounts ? same subframe ?

The reason is I suspect my 6 speed swap is almost identical, yet I have a very large resonance ar 1900-2100 rpm in 5th and 6th. It seems the only difference is the trans, and I am wondering if the 01E (6sp) is more sensitive to input shaft harmonics or something ??
(or I just have a bad trans).

For reference, I have :
BSM delete (ALH pump with BRM sprocket)
01E 6sp - DQS ratios (from the 2.5 V6 TDI) - rebuilt
Genuine VW 6sp axles, imported from UK xx-271BB and xx-272BB
SBC 228mm longitudinal flywheel with Stage 2E clutch
New engine mounts (TDI fluid filled ones)
New snub mount (TDI one)
New trans mounts (1.8T ones, xx-151J)
Same subframe (BHW)

Gonna go ahead and bump this thread. I'm pretty much set on getting my auto trans replaced with a 5 or 6 speed when it goes tits-up. I've been poking around on these forums for over a year now and checked out multiple threads, and don't recall seeing one listing out the parts for a 5 speed conversion. Any consensus as to what's better (5/6 speed) and what parts are needed?