shuts off after 3 minutes

Tom W. · May 17, 2014

so, took off the egr pipe. Nada.
starts instantly, runs 5 seconds, dies. starts again, runs 5 seconds, dies. Nice plume of black soot coming from the egr, tho. looks kinda cool.

so im back to fuel. anybody have a diagram of the fuel system once it leaves the fuel filter and heads towards the injectors./ returns to the filter?

peiphil · May 17, 2014

Tom W. said:
so, took off the egr pipe. Nada.
starts instantly, runs 5 seconds, dies. starts again, runs 5 seconds, dies. Nice plume of black soot coming from the egr, tho. looks kinda cool.

so im back to fuel. anybody have a diagram of the fuel system once it leaves the fuel filter and heads towards the injectors./ returns to the filter?

Now I have to wonder if the chip in your key fob has failed and the car thinks you are stealing it
The plume of black smoke indicates lots of fuel is there for the injectors so the ecu must be shutting you down

Tom W. · May 17, 2014

Hmm! any way to check that?
I followed the fuel line from the filter to the HP pump on the end of the back of the camshaft- can anyone tell me what the symptoms are for a failed HP pump?

vwztips · May 17, 2014

After shutting down by itself, will it start right back up or is it hard to start?

If hard to start I would suspect a fuel issue. If not, I would suspect an electrical/sensor/ECU issue.

Tom W. · May 19, 2014

Starts right up, shuts down after abt 4 seconds. Then starts right up again, shuts off after 2 seconds.
If its an electrical/sensor/ecu why am I not throwing any codes?

Still no codes other than the self inflicted codes. (TCU and ASV)

vwztips · May 19, 2014

Yeah I was thinking something similar. For the main power relay (IIRC #218) located next to the ECU, it could be heating up and losing contact long enough to kill power to ECU.

A quick test is swap the relay from your other Passat and see if it goes past 3 minutes.

If that doesn't work, put a test light or test meter on the ECU power lead and watch to see if it goes out momentarily when the car shuts off on it's own.

Tom W. · May 19, 2014

first thing I'll do tonight when I get home from work- check the power!
Thanks!

owr084 · May 21, 2014

I'll toss in my one cents worth (don't know enough to pitch in two cents). Have you hooked up a VCDS and looked at the immobilizer to see if it has been activated or is/is not recognizing the key? Do you have any other electronics in the car that could interfere with the immobilizer trying to read the key. I once bricked my Passat for a half hour because the wireless adapter came to close to the steering column and jammed the immobilizer.

Tom W. · May 22, 2014

owr084 said:
I'll toss in my one cents worth (don't know enough to pitch in two cents). Have you hooked up a VCDS and looked at the immobilizer to see if it has been activated or is/is not recognizing the key? Do you have any other electronics in the car that could interfere with the immobilizer trying to read the key. I once bricked my Passat for a half hour because the wireless adapter came to close to the steering column and jammed the immobilizer.

Good point. Here's the scoop. I don't get any codes for the immobilizer. Plus the immobilizer light blinks on and then goes off when the ignition is turned to on. If it were the immobilizer, I would think that the immmobilizer light would stay on(at least it is supposed to stay on when activated) AND i should see some stored code on the vag-com.
I do get stored codes- I clear the ECU, then start the car, it runs briefly- long enough to store the code that tells me the TCU is not giving a signa(TCU is completely dead- been underwater for months)l. codes tell me that i need to go to the emissions workshop because glow plug #4 is has an implausible signal, it gives me the code that tells me that something is wrong with my anti-shudder valve(it's unplugged) tells me something is wrong with my EGR(also unplugged)

So i suspect that the ecu is getting power- at least long enough for the ecu to check all systems and store a code. Plus the glow plug light will glow and then go out when the ignition is switched on, which means that the ecu is getting power.
I too think it is something having to do with fuel. Unfortunately I don't know the PD fuel system. I only know the ALH and AHU fuel systems. I know I have fuel to the fuel filter- lift pump is working, fuel filter is good, plenty of fuel up to the filter, but then what? What I don't know is of something is wrong with the high pressure fuel pump that runs off of the camshaft. I also don't know if something is shutting off the signal to the injectors.
By the way, I've been looking for a good Bentley for a 2005 passat TDI wagon. it's pretty confusing as to what is the proper Bentley.

peiphil · May 22, 2014

Tom W. said:
Good point. Here's the scoop. I don't get any codes for the immobilizer. Plus the immobilizer light blinks on and then goes off when the ignition is turned to on. If it were the immobilizer, I would think that the immmobilizer light would stay on(at least it is supposed to stay on when activated) AND i should see some stored code on the vag-com.
I do get stored codes- I clear the ECU, then start the car, it runs briefly- long enough to store the code that tells me the TCU is not giving a signa(TCU is completely dead- been underwater for months)l. codes tell me that i need to go to the emissions workshop because glow plug #4 is has an implausible signal, it gives me the code that tells me that something is wrong with my anti-shudder valve(it's unplugged) tells me something is wrong with my EGR(also unplugged)

So i suspect that the ecu is getting power- at least long enough for the ecu to check all systems and store a code. Plus the glow plug light will glow and then go out when the ignition is switched on, which means that the ecu is getting power.
I too think it is something having to do with fuel. Unfortunately I don't know the PD fuel system. I only know the ALH and AHU fuel systems. I know I have fuel to the fuel filter- lift pump is working, fuel filter is good, plenty of fuel up to the filter, but then what? What I don't know is of something is wrong with the high pressure fuel pump that runs off of the camshaft. I also don't know if something is shutting off the signal to the injectors.
By the way, I've been looking for a good Bentley for a 2005 passat TDI wagon. it's pretty confusing as to what is the proper Bentley.

Just go get a new key!

owr084 · May 23, 2014

I was not referring to stored codes. Use the VCDS to examine the blocks for the immobilizer and look at their state (on/off). It does sound like nothing is happening with the immobilizer, but at this point, we are grasping at straws aren't we?

Oh, and the only (Get)Bentley available for the 2004/5 TDI Passats is DVD only. No paper. If you get it, install it it on a virtual drive on your PC. Also, after the first year, you have to pay for updates. If you reinstall the software after the first year and do not pay for the updates, you will not be able to install ANY of the updates.

That is why you put it on a virtual drive and store a copy.

Tom W. said:
Good point. Here's the scoop. I don't get any codes for the immobilizer. Plus the immobilizer light blinks on and then goes off when the ignition is turned to on. If it were the immobilizer, I would think that the immmobilizer light would stay on(at least it is supposed to stay on when activated) AND i should see some stored code on the vag-com.
I do get stored codes- I clear the ECU, then start the car, it runs briefly- long enough to store the code that tells me the TCU is not giving a signa(TCU is completely dead- been underwater for months)l. codes tell me that i need to go to the emissions workshop because glow plug #4 is has an implausible signal, it gives me the code that tells me that something is wrong with my anti-shudder valve(it's unplugged) tells me something is wrong with my EGR(also unplugged)

So i suspect that the ecu is getting power- at least long enough for the ecu to check all systems and store a code. Plus the glow plug light will glow and then go out when the ignition is switched on, which means that the ecu is getting power.
I too think it is something having to do with fuel. Unfortunately I don't know the PD fuel system. I only know the ALH and AHU fuel systems. I know I have fuel to the fuel filter- lift pump is working, fuel filter is good, plenty of fuel up to the filter, but then what? What I don't know is of something is wrong with the high pressure fuel pump that runs off of the camshaft. I also don't know if something is shutting off the signal to the injectors.
By the way, I've been looking for a good Bentley for a 2005 passat TDI wagon. it's pretty confusing as to what is the proper Bentley.

Montezuma · May 23, 2014

Good to know about that DVD. I own it but I have not used it. Also, it seemed like there are two editions, but I could only find one. Repair vs service manual, I world like to have both.

Tom W. · May 24, 2014

So, I used my vag-com to check the blocks of the immobilizer. Nothing.

Hooked back up the EGR and the Shudder Valve, re-set the PCU, now those codes are gone.
Also used a small jeweler's file on the TCM cable- got rid of some serious corrosion. sprayed the whole thing liberally with De-oxit. Plugged in the TCM from my other Passat. It is now recognizing the TCM! Zero codes!

owr084 said:
I was not referring to stored codes. Use the VCDS to examine the blocks for the immobilizer and look at their state (on/off). It does sound like nothing is happening with the immobilizer, but at this point, we are grasping at straws aren't we?

Oh, and the only (Get)Bentley available for the 2004/5 TDI Passats is DVD only. No paper. If you get it, install it it on a virtual drive on your PC. Also, after the first year, you have to pay for updates. If you reinstall the software after the first year and do not pay for the updates, you will not be able to install ANY of the updates. That is why you put it on a virtual drive and store a copy.

waltzconmigo · May 24, 2014

good luck Tom, no advice from this corner but I am cheering you on from the cheap seats.

peiphil · May 24, 2014

Tom W. said:
So, I used my vag-com to check the blocks of the immobilizer. Nothing.

Hooked back up the EGR and the Shudder Valve, re-set the PCU, now those codes are gone.
Also used a small jeweler's file on the TCM cable- got rid of some serious corrosion. sprayed the whole thing liberally with De-oxit. Plugged in the TCM from my other Passat. It is now recognizing the TCM! Zero codes!

So the engine is not shutting down now?

thundershorts · May 25, 2014

If you found that much corrosion in the tcm, its very likely the ground wire splice which is inside the harness to the tcm plug is also questionable. To find it, you must open up the harness wrapping back from the tcm plug about 12 inches. you will find the two brown ground wires from the tcm plug stamp spliced to one ground wire. Many have found this to have rotted.

newlitemotorist · May 25, 2014

You need to consider relay 219 which has been mentioned several times already. I just had a bout with a similar issue. My car would run fine all day and then it would randomly stall. It would always start right up again and run fine. The other day after sitting in traffic for a few minutes it died like usual but this time when i started it up it only ran for a few seconds. It continued to die repeatedly until finally after pulling off the road it died for good. It would crank over but it would not light up. After letting it sit for several minutes it started and ran fine. I changed my relay 219 which is located in the ecu box under the hood and it has been great so far. We just took the car on a 2 hour trip including some stop and go and it has not stalled since replacing the relay. I had to order the relay through O'Reiley auto parts but luckily they had one in town so i got it that day. It was 52 bux after tax. If you want to try it you could clean the contacts of your existing relay to see if it helps before you buy a new. Look into it.

aja8888 · May 25, 2014

219 relay was upgraded with a duplicate contact set a few years ago. Plus, it also is in the lift tank circuit I believe. So a shutdown could be the loss of the lift pump thru this relay.

Tom W. · May 25, 2014

engine still shutting down.

peiphil said:
So the engine is not shutting down now?

Tom W. · May 27, 2014

So, not turning over. Battery tests good for voltage, load, CCA. solenoid clicks. no corrosion in the battery terminals(cleaned them ang sprayed w De-oxit anyway) . cleaned the ground to the chassis while I had the battery out being tested ( no corrosion there either). Reached up underneath and grabbed the + wire at the starter, felt around, feels like I might have some corrosion there- - can't see the bugger.

Do I need to take out the A/C compressor to get to the starter electrical connections?
(Stupid design, VW!)

Where is the ground from the body to the engine?

ozark-2 · Aug 17, 2015

Our 05 passat is doing the same thing. Did you ever figure out what it was.

peiphil · Aug 17, 2015

Black smoke means your getting fuel but no air.
Could be intake system or exhaust.
Wondering if turbo is blocked somehow.
Perhaps take it off and start engine noisy but should stay running!

Tom W. · Nov 18, 2015

ozark-2 said:
Our 05 passat is doing the same thing. Did you ever figure out what it was.

No, still haven't figured it out. A diesel needs 3 things: air, compression, and fuel - all at the correct time.
I have ruled out air, - nothing is restricting the air- I took off everything from the intake manifold, including the shudder valve.

I have ruled out compression- did a compressiion test, it reads 430-440 psi on all cylinders.

I know fuel is going to the engine, because I disconnected the fuel line going from the filter to the engine, when I turn the ignition to run the fuel pump I get a nice healthy flow of fuel out of the line.

The glow plug light goes on when I turn the ignition, which tells me the main relay is feeding a signal to the computer.

Mikey2 · Nov 18, 2015

Another prerequisite for an engine to run is ECU's "approval". This thread is so long that I have not read it through, sorry.

Have you tried keeping revs up to 3000-4000 rpm to see if the 3 min running time still holds? One possibility is that there is a sensor/actuator which becomes malfunctioning due to heat generation, making the ECU to shut the engine down. For the same reason, does ambient temp have an effect?

afarfalla · Nov 21, 2015

did you put gas in it?

peiphil · Nov 21, 2015

I do not have a schematic diagram for this car but most injector systems feed 12 volts to the injectors through what ever relay
The injectors are fired from a negative pulse from the ecu
The relay that feeds the 12 volts to the injectors is also triggered by a negative signal from it
In other words the injectors and ecu are not powered by the same relay

shuts off after 3 minutes

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