Nozzle and clutch upgrade: need guidance

BakoTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Bakersfield, CA
TDI
Jetta, MK7
So I need a new clutch for my ALH Mk4 Jetta. I have the stock turbo but I need to replace my nozzles. I’m in desperate need of guidance on this.
I can’t upgrade turno at this time so what options might I have in order to be able to support a possible turno upgrade in the future?

Been considering these:
SBC stage 2 endurance or daily
DLC 764 nozzles

Kerma offers different calibration stages for the nozzles as well. That’s something else I’d like some assistance on.

With this possible setup, will I need a tune? If so, I need some light shed on me on this issue.

Anyway! Thanks and I appreciate your input.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
From personal experience, you can rock DLC520'S with a stock turbo, but as soon as you do a tune, you'll definitely need to do the clutch. Good thing you're in the market for one already!

Since you have to stock 10mm pump, you could probably get away with running the DLC764s without upgrading the turbo.

I would definitely advise getting a tune. You'd probably sit at about a stage 2.

As for the clutch, I've heard the stage 2 dailys have oem similar clutch effort. I can personally testify the stage 3 is at least double the effort. Almost feels like mechanical linkage clutch.
 

BakoTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Bakersfield, CA
TDI
Jetta, MK7
Awesome! Will using Daily stage 2 be ok with an upgraded turbo later on? Or should I go with the Endurance to be set in case I do go to VNT17 or Warner S7?

What is the difference between the Kerma tuning and the Malone tuning?

I get that tune stage 2 is good for my stock. What about staging on the nozzle calibration?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
From what I've read, stage 1 is good for stock, stage 2 is better with nozzles. As for who you use as a tuner, it all comes down to preference. I used malone, but that's because the dealer I used locally is an authorized vendor of malone.

As for the stage 2 clutch, I've heard it'll handle a 17 turbo just fine. Only reason I went with stage 3 is because my stock was slipping too badly and it's all they had in stock at the same local vendor.
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
"different calibration stages for the nozzles as well. That’s something else I’d like some assistance on."

In a word, don't. Set 'em to stock 220/300 bar. DLC764s are big without a major turbo upgrade.
Idparts has Firad 502s (.216) which are plenty big enough. That and a VNT17 down the road make a great snappy
daily driver, that should deliver good FE.

The Southbend stage 2 Endurance is a great clutch in my experience.
A touch more pedal effort than stock, but after 10 minutes of driving
you'll never notice it, and it'll take any tune upgrade you're ever likely to get.

"Stages" of tune is all a bit relative. Depends on what you're after.

My $.02 FWIW.
 

mrfiat

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Location
Los Ranchos, NM
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI (Reflex Silver) , 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon (Black)
I have the "Sachs Power Clutch for TDI with G60/VR6 Flywheel" and I love it. Very little effort to press down the clutch pedal. No slippage yet with my stage 4 Malone tune.
 

BakoTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Bakersfield, CA
TDI
Jetta, MK7
Depends on what you're after.

I’m looking for a reasonable setup with my stock turbo that will also work with an upgraded turbo down the road.

Feedback so far is that SBC Stage 2 is a good option with a stage 2 tune (a must) and stock calibration (stage 1) on nozzles is good enough for the DLC764s, WITH my stock turbo.

Now this: will the Daily vs. the Endurance make a big difference?








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
I think the only difference between the two is you get a few extra ponies out of the one clutch, and the $$$.


Going with the nozzles, clutch, and tune, you are definitely opening the gateway to better mods. Next step after that would be bigger turbo, bigger exhaust, ported intake, EGR shennanigans...



You can always email Malone or call Kerma and chat at them about what you wish to accomplish, and they'll give you suggestions for it. I personally would go with the injectors you are already banking on getting, clutch, tune, then start saving for the turbo. Without the tune you may smoke quite a bit, unless you severely turn down the injection quantity.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
How many miles on your '99? Original clutch and flywheel? If it's original and not too worn it will be fine with nozzles and a tune. The LUK kits on '99.5 cars was stronger than kits on later cars.

My advice would be to get some .205 nozzles (like the Firads we sell, shameless plug) and have a local Bosch shop set them up. Much less expensive. And send your ECU to Rocketchip to get it socketed (need to do that on '99.5s) and a Stage 3 tune. That's a strong setup. I ran that in my first '99.5 Golf on track days with the OE clutch and it worked great.
 
Last edited:

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I have a Stage 2 endurance in my 01 and the pedal feel was lighter than stock and my 2000 with a stock and is also heavier than the endurance in the 01. It handles every bit of torque my 01 makes with all the goodies on it.

I've heard great things from the G60 setup but have never ran one.

South bend has impressive customer service and completely stands behind their products. I had an issue bedding or seating my clutch and within an hour they had replied, apparently I wasn't driving it hard enough...after that it's been Rock solid for almost 50k miles.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

BakoTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Bakersfield, CA
TDI
Jetta, MK7
How many miles on your '99? Original clutch and flywheel? If it's original and not too worn it will be fine with nozzles and a tune.

have a local Bosch shop set them up. Much less expensive. And send your ECU to Rocketchip to get it socketed (need to do that on '99.5s) and a Stage 3 tune. That's a strong setup.

I got about 280K, not original clutch and flywheel but it was replaced along with transmission about 14 years ago. I might go with the local shop idea. Not sure I can deal with the downtime, since it's my daily driver. I guess I still have to send it out for tuning anyway. Might have to consider this too.
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Bako,
Buy a set of injectors and an ECU. No downtime, other than installation when they return. Do have the immobiliser deleted on
the ECU, just make sure the numbers match. Plug and play, should be less than $200 for both. A couple hours to install if you're at all handy.
Depends on what your downtime is worth.
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
Woah! Ok, you threw me a curve ball! Buy an ECU? Have not heard of this route! Can you please explain? Or DM me, that works too



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it's so you can use a 2000+ ecu with your existing harness and be able to flash new tunes via the OBD2 port. Your car you currently can't.


Edit: After some quick searching, 98 (New beetle TDI's) and 99 all ALH's had a 80 pin ECU, 2000-2003 had the 121 pin ECU's, so it's not just plug n play. Dern.
 
Last edited:

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Bako,
Dig around on Ebay, I'll cheerfully confess I'm not up on the differences on an ECU for your 99, could be a 99.5? There was a
model/year change in 1999.

Whatever, you might be able to find the right (interchangeable) ECU
used. The only way to know for certain is to get into your vehicle's
ECU. It requires, IIRC, pulling off the panel in the engine bay at the dash.
You'll have to do some research, but it can be removed. It should have a part # on it. I bought a backup on Ebay for $60.
There were some odd clips on my "02 ALH holding it in, go gently,
but you should be able to access, and remove it.

And I don't know if your model has an immobiliser circuit built in.
You'd have to ask someone like Malone for specifics. Armed with
the part # code on YOUR computer, you could send a duplicate off
to the tuner of choice. When it returns re-flashed, you can plug it in.
Same with injectors, make sure you get a matching set, mebbe $120.
Have them cleaned, new nozzles, pop tested and balanced, my local
shop charges $120. Not difficult to install. Daunting the first time around, but pretty straightforward.

Just an alternative to being without your car.
 

BakoTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Bakersfield, CA
TDI
Jetta, MK7
No immobilizer on a '99.5.


Correct!

I have a conversation to be had with Malone tomorrow morning to hear their recommendations. I’ve gotten a lot of great tips and suggestions and guidance on this so far and I’m grateful for your input! Will report as to what I make up my mind for and see how it goes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BakoTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Bakersfield, CA
TDI
Jetta, MK7
So I contacted Malone about tuning and had an amazing eye opening conversation! They referred me to a company they work with and found a good deal for clutch/nozzles/turbo/tuning kit. Borgwarner , .230 nozzles, Sachs VR6 clutch w/flywheel, 3.0 bar MAP sensor, & stage 4 Malone tune. I’m super excited for this and just waiting for the final details to be figured out then I’ll be checking out and swiping my card!
I was so scared of tune stages and stage this and stage that. But now I feel like I’m understanding how tuning works. I was thinking that you’d have to be a racer in order to need tuning and all that but man! I’m enlightened. Thank you all for your bits and pieces to the puzzle (in my mind) of tuning and upgrades. Will have to post updates!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Borg Warner doesn't make a VNT-17. What does PP764 "equivalent" mean? Either they are or they're not. And PP764s are too big for your application.

I could go on but I'd do some more research before pulling the trigger on a kit. Also, '99.5s tend to fuel a bit differently than later MKIVs, so what works for most folks may not be as good for your car.
 

BakoTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Bakersfield, CA
TDI
Jetta, MK7
Borg Warner doesn't make a VNT-17. What does PP764 "equivalent" mean? Either they are or they're not. And PP764s are too big for your application.

I could go on but I'd do some more research before pulling the trigger on a kit. Also, '99.5s tend to fuel a bit differently than later MKIVs, so what works for most folks may not be as good for your car.


Hmm ok.

So I called them and they normally customize based on my car...so that makes me feel better.
Thanks for the heads up Indigo!!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BakoTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Bakersfield, CA
TDI
Jetta, MK7
Look at this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=496442

That's what I'm talking about.


That’s disconcerting for sure. Still pending a call from Cascade German about this kit and customization options. What I gathered was that the nozzles seem to be too big with an 11mm pump. Lots of questions to be discussed for sure. Ugh, feel like I’m back to square one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Aaron is a good guy and knows his stuff. However, I've learned over the years with something like 10 TDIs that less is more with these cars. I'd start with a tune and maybe nozzles and see what you think. You may not even need a clutch. You may find you're happy with that. Personally I like these cars a lot with just a good tune. Truth is they'll never really be fast, and it would make me crazy if I sacrificed FE in search of power.
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
Funny, I'm headed over there to pick up a timing belt kit and discuss tunes more lol
 

BakoTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Bakersfield, CA
TDI
Jetta, MK7
I'd start with a tune and maybe nozzles and see what you think. You may not even need a clutch. You may find you're happy with that. Personally I like these cars a lot with just a good tune. Truth is they'll never really be fast, and it would make me crazy if I sacrificed FE in search of power.

FE was my draw to these cars back when I got it and it continues to be. I do need a clutch as my DMF is starting to sound like maracas. Dove into this skeptical of tuning but with so many combinations, I feel overwhelmed again. Seeing comments like “more power without sacrificing FE” on nozzle options (mainly 520s) got me hooked.
I like the idea of starting with nozzles and a tune. I also like the idea of upgrading turbo in the future so when I see it all packaged, I felt it to be the right time for it. Wondering if Aaron can work with me on nozzle selection and tuning options. I’m so frazzled right now haha



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Top