Warm Up Idle Time after EGR Delete?

I read from the FAQs that its bad to let these things idle for over a minute given all hardware is left in place.
For those of you guys who have the EGR deleted--how long do you guys let your cars sit in idle after a cold start?

Thanks in advance,
ALH Noob.

Why are you asking to know before you drive it?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hat-you-need-to-idle-your-car-before-driving/


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super1 said:

Why are you asking to know before you drive it?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hat-you-need-to-idle-your-car-before-driving/


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Just want to to be safe than sorry. My past month of ownership has humbled me considering a lot of things I thought I knew from gassers do not carry over to owning a diesel.

Kind of my rule of thumb on how I do it is, get in, immediately start car, then buckle up, set up GPS, radio, ect, then go. Usually no more than 30 seconds just to let the oil flow a bit. Then I go. Driving it ard while cold is a no no from what I gather though. During th warmup the fuel pump injects more, causing more smoke, which I guess gunks up the VNT faster.

Where's this FAQ and why is it bad to let it idle for more than 30 seconds?

I don't think it's in a FAQ, but I can tell you that cold pistons don't seal so well with cold oil, under a load like driving helps them warm up faster to seal better. At work as soon as we finish overhauling an engine, we throw it straight onto the dyno and load it up without waiting for it to warm up.

leafs said:

Where's this FAQ and why is it bad to let it idle for more than 30 seconds?

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https://www.tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/TDiFAQ-2.html#n

n. Things you may not know, but should

• It is not recommended to let the TDI engine idle for extended periods of time. Aside from wasting fuel, causing unnecessary emissions, and not accomplishing anything (the engine won't warm up at idle anyway), the turbocharger depends on having a certain minimum level of boost pressure to maintain the condition of the seals. Extended periods of idling may cause a certain amount of oil consumption, and the oil consumption may clog the catalytic converter. Some owners who have let their engine idle for a long time report the engine running poorly for some time afterward. And no, you don't need to worry about what's going to happen if you get stuck in a traffic jam now and again, it's not THAT serious. Just don't start the engine 20 minutes before you want to leave in the morning every day, in the false hope of having a warm interior.

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Fawk.

. That one day I started it and ran back inside to poop for 40mins...


Who can I call for an engine overhaul???

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Lol. Doing it once shouldn't cause much damage, especially if you're always on the ball about your oil changes. Must have been one hell of a bowel movement.

Here's my cold weather routine with an EGR delete, FWIW.
Start the car, don't be tempted to pump the throttle, only leads to
a cloud of white smoke, (unburnt diesel).
Give it a minute to let the oil start to circulate, then gently pull off.
Get the revs up a bit, but build slowly. Shift at 3krpm.
Combustion in the chambers is your friend, but boosting the turbo
is not IMO. Here's where a boost gauge really helps.


Within about 10 minutes of this my temp gauge is starting to rise,
hey, I can hit the fan and start getting some heat in the cabin.
After 20 minutes I figure I'm good to start boosting & throttling.

Oil is circulating, a bit of boost is warming everything up, temp is
vertical on the gauge. Is engine completely warm? Maybe not in
0F temperatures, but I do have the grills blocked off with the pipe
insulation mod.

Get a seat heating pad if you want to get warm right away, but I think these cars don't really like short hops in winter climes.

My $.02

Rrusse11 said:

Here's my cold weather routine with an EGR delete, FWIW.
Start the car, don't be tempted to pump the throttle, only leads to
a cloud of white smoke, (unburnt diesel).
Give it a minute to let the oil start to circulate, then gently pull off.
Get the revs up a bit, but build slowly. Shift at 3krpm.
Combustion in the chambers is your friend, but boosting the turbo
is not IMO. Here's where a boost gauge really helps.


Within about 10 minutes of this my temp gauge is starting to rise,
hey, I can hit the fan and start getting some heat in the cabin.
After 20 minutes I figure I'm good to start boosting & throttling.

Oil is circulating, a bit of boost is warming everything up, temp is
vertical on the gauge. Is engine completely warm? Maybe not in
0F temperatures, but I do have the grills blocked off with the pipe
insulation mod.

Get a seat heating pad if you want to get warm right away, but I think these cars don't really like short hops in winter climes.

My $.02

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Thanks Richard, I'll try that. Also read somewhere that giving load to the defrosters and seat heaters help warm it up too.

Seat heaters will warm your fanny. Leave the HVAC off until you generate a bit of engine heat.
I don't think these cars are any different than any other, except the diesels won't warm up at idle. No car likes sitting idling for 40 minutes, but 5 should be fine. A lot of short trips is not good for a TDI, but it's not especially good for the wife's Honda either.
If it's real cold, simply start it up, wait for it to smooth out a bit, and drive.

Nero Morg said:

Lol. Doing it once shouldn't cause much damage, especially if you're always on the ball about your oil changes. Must have been one hell of a bowel movement.

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I shouldn't... But I love a pint of Ben and Jerrys....

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Rrusse11 said:

Here's my cold weather routine with an EGR delete, FWIW.
Start the car, don't be tempted to pump the throttle, only leads to
a cloud of white smoke, (unburnt diesel).
Give it a minute to let the oil start to circulate, then gently pull off.
Get the revs up a bit, but build slowly. Shift at 3krpm.
Combustion in the chambers is your friend, but boosting the turbo
is not IMO. Here's where a boost gauge really helps.


Within about 10 minutes of this my temp gauge is starting to rise,
hey, I can hit the fan and start getting some heat in the cabin.
After 20 minutes I figure I'm good to start boosting & throttling.

Oil is circulating, a bit of boost is warming everything up, temp is
vertical on the gauge. Is engine completely warm? Maybe not in
0F temperatures, but I do have the grills blocked off with the pipe
insulation mod.

Get a seat heating pad if you want to get warm right away, but I think these cars don't really like short hops in winter climes.

My $.02

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I have a MK6, but the above seems to be my routine.

Get in, keep door open, push button to "ignition on". wait for glow plug light to go out, then wait for door ding to stop (give glow plugs a little extra time) then push button to start. Get out. go to back. get ice scraper. scrape windshield. brush off any snow. put away ice scraper. get back in drivers seat. back out of driveway. Drive like I'm Morgan Freeman in "Driving Miss Daisy" keeping engine under 2k when at constant speed but shift at 3k until engine is warmed up. Then drive normally.

Something to be noted is when you're shutting off the engine. If you have a DSG and keep it in Sport Mode, you need to let the turbo cool before shutting it down. Even with a M6, I will sit for 1-2 minutes gathering my stuff to head inside meanwhile letting the engine idle to cool the turbo. Someone I know has a 1.9L, 150k, never heard of cooling the turbo, snapped the turbo shaft in 2. Turbine ended up at his cat while the compressor drilled into the intake. Turbo Cooling is just as important, hence why they created "turbo timers" for that person that is always on the go and doesn't have time to wait for their turbo to cool before shutting it down.

I've been shifting at 2500rpm until I get to operating temp. 3k seems a bit high when it's really cold.

With my PD130 Passat I used to just get in and go and stay off the skinny pedal for the first 10-15 minutes. On frosty mornings I'd start it and put the screen heater on. By the time I'd scraped my way around the side and rear windows the front windscreen was almost defrosted. Loved that electric element in the windscreen vent on diesel Passats!

Even with an EGR delete it'd start blowing out warm air 10 minutes or so into my drive. Climate control managed fan/temp speeds reasonably well on cold mornings and didn't blast cold air at me even when the temp was set to 20C.

Hm. This mk7 dsg shifts at like 1600-1800 rpm with a very light foot.

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jason_ said:

Hm. This mk7 dsg shifts at like 1600-1800 rpm with a very light foot.

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Shift it. Manually drive the automatic.

I'v owned nothing but diesels my whole life only gasser is my wifes and have numerous tractors and sprayers and combines on the farm and I always let my engines idle for a minimum of 5 minutes before I start driving them. This forum of TDI owners is the first place I'v ever heard not to let a diesel warm up first. What I'v always been told is that these engines expand such as pistons. That being said I'v also always been told that running a diesel cold will cause piston slap in the cylinder which will lead to bad things over time. So I'v never once had an issue with letting my engines warm up and I will continue to do so. I don't see how letting it warm up will cause any harm? Not trying to argue but this is opposite from what I've been told my entire life. And if I'm totally wrong please enlighten me so I don't do further harm in the next 30 years!!!

Prime example our Kenworth we haul grain a 40 foot grain trailer with you can actually hear the light piston slap for the first minute or so til it warms up and seals everything up...

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And to answer the OPs original question I have a frost heater installed with a EGR delete and I still start my car go back inside make me a cup of coffee watch the news for a few minutes and then proceed to drive the car. That's the winter routine Summer I don't plug it in obviously but still start it walk back in make coffee watch news for a minute them go back to leave. Maybe 5-10 minutes.

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Powerstroke9773 said:

snip.... Prime example our Kenworth we haul grain a 40 foot grain trailer with you can actually hear the light piston slap for the first minute or so til it warms up and seals everything up...

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To be fair, heavy duty diesels are way different than light duty. Most heavy duty engines I come across are due for overhauls because of either blowby or oil consumption at 400kish miles. These Tdi's are known for going 500k or more depending on how they were cared for.

Going to take a wild guess here, your kenworth, does it have a N14 in it?

Rrusse11 said:

Shift it. Manually drive the automatic.

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Ah. I suppose. I bought a dsg to be lazy. I don't want to be counter productive on the reason of my purchase.

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Well these past few days I finally have my sedan back after my uncle did a headgasket job and its got the EGR delete.
I wait for the revs to drop after a cold start, wait a couple minutes, and start driving.
Been shifting up at 2500 rpms but the needle barely moves even with the accessories (rear defroster, headlights, seat warmer).
My morning commute is 10 minutes. I do still let it idle for 30 secs to a minute like someone mentioned to cool down the turbos before getting out of the car.
"Short trips are bad for it"---even still I really hope this engine lasts long.
This will be its last winter without a frostheater.
Will a "winter front" be OK for milder winter temps, like 32* F?

deathtrap,
Shifting to soon. Gently take it up to 3k or so, why do all you people
want to lug these engines????????????????????????
The rev drop from gear to gear is bout 1000 rpm. You do NOT want
to drive these motors below 2000. It's BAD for them.

It's not a gas motor.

Nero Morg said:

To be fair, heavy duty diesels are way different than light duty. Most heavy duty engines I come across are due for overhauls because of either blowby or oil consumption at 400kish miles. These Tdi's are known for going 500k or more depending on how they were cared for.



Going to take a wild guess here, your kenworth, does it have a N14 in it?

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How are they so very different though? The only difference I know is not in the engine itself but in the manner in which it's operated. My Jetta obviously doesn't haul 80,000 lbs multiple times a day. But if you take a common rail Cummins like an older model in a tractor trailer or my John Deere 4040S( she's a German John Deere) everything is setup the exact same to run on the same principles one's just bigger. So again to the OP I don't see how letting your car idle for 5 to 10 mins is going to hurt anything. The tractors and road tractors are running all day long at highway speeds and high idle for tractors. Their not doing a lot of up and down high and low City driving. Most high mileage Jettas I'd bet are majority highway miles
Sorry for hijacking and I'm off my soapbox

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Powerstroke9773 said:

How are they so very different though?
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Heavy duty diesels were designed to be run under heavy loads at all times. Matter of fact I've noticed across all vintages of engines from N14s to the latest and greatest X15 that those engines hate driving with no load. Barely builds any boost, and winds out quickly. However, whenever I run them on a dyno, they just eat up all that torque and chug along.

Light duty diesels were designed to be fuel eco cars and for longevity. Kind of why they started at the baseline of 90hp turd machines. And some people are crazy enough to do a stage zero tune

While I understand that concept. It still begs the question of what makes the small economical TDI different from a 8.3 liter Detroit in respect to starting and allowing to warm up for 10 mins. It will take a lot of compelling evidence to sway me that these cars are get in and go. Diesels are diesels they need to be warmed up.

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Powerstroke9773 said:

While I understand that concept. It still begs the question of what makes the small economical TDI different from a 8.3 liter Detroit in respect to starting and allowing to warm up for 10 mins. It will take a lot of compelling evidence to sway me that these cars are get in and go. Diesels are diesels they need to be warmed up.

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I agree with you, I like to idle mine on colder mornings. Sub 25 you really start to recognize the clatter from these cold soaked motors.
Ive heard valves can become warped from higher rpm on cold motors.
And although, one argument is that "they dont warm up or generate heat like a gasser." Id argue that with, " i am pretty sure the cylinders generate more heat the 25 degrees. Letting them idle removes some of that cold soak within the internals."
We are different in that, if i run my frostheater, then i get in and go, no hesitating.

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ItAintRodKnock said:

I agree with you, I like to idle mine on colder mornings. Sub 25 you really start to recognize the clatter from these cold soaked motors.
Ive heard valves can become warped from higher rpm on cold motors.
And although, one argument is that "they dont warm up or generate heat like a gasser." Id argue that with, " i am pretty sure the cylinders generate more heat the 25 degrees. Letting them idle removes some of that cold soak within the internals."
We are different in that, if i run my frostheater, then i get in and go, no hesitating.

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The only major issue I'v ever been told/ witnessed in a cold diesel is piston slap. Not to say there's not others. And again not trying to argue with anyone simply stating that whatever your style of start up is I see NO HARM at all in letting your engine idle for 5 10 mins in the morning cold or hot doesn't matter. It take you time to wake up let your engine do the same it won't hurt anything.

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It's bugging me now, I'll ask the engineers tomorrow when I see them at work lol