Schaeffer's 8008 vs pennzoil euro lx 0w30

turbobrick240

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The ash containing elements of the oil migrate past the piston rings/cylinder walls into the combustion chamber. Not via oil vapors through the intake.
 

CleverUserName

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The ash containing elements of the oil migrate past the piston rings/cylinder walls into the combustion chamber. Not via oil vapors through the intake.
I guess the oily sooty plaque in the intake is also from the piston rings? Or the condensed oil I empty from my Mann provent CCV reservoir every month is also coming from the rings?

Is that what you’re saying? The oil from the piston walls and rings is traveling backward through the intake?
 

turbobrick240

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No. I'm saying the oil vapors that volatilize off the oil are fairly pure light hydrocarbon fractions almost completely devoid of ash. They can still cause coking in certain applications, but that coke is mostly pure carbon. Think of it like a whiskey still- the end product doesn't have big chunks of decomposing corn because those were left behind in the mash pot. The condensed vapors from an oil that originally had 800 ppm phosphorous might have 10 ppm phosphorous.

btw- NOACK volatility is a valuable criteria, but the testing procedures are notorious for having poor repeatability.

https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/fli-article/noack-volatility-test-set-upheavals/
 
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oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
The clean-looking filter must be from a engine with nearly zero blow-by.
A certain deleted ALH I know of has a 'black as the Ace of Spades' filter every time.;)

Read my post again. Both filters are from the same engine. ;)
 

tydaddy

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I wish all of you guys whipping your things around having a measuring contest, would answer my initial question. Bahaha. I think I've decided on the 9000 based on franko6 and others recc, but I like learning the technical reasons you guys choose the stuff you use. This has been a very informative thread, nonetheless. Thanks fellas!
 

flee

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Haha, you'll get in trouble with the enviro-nuts with a post like that!
NASA had an interesting article a few years ago relating to solar relationships and Earth's climate. It got buried. But, the gist of it is that because of this little thing called gravity, whenever Jupiter and Saturn are near each other in their orbits around the sun, it pulls the sun harder towards them, since both the gas giants' collective mass is enough to do this. Actually, all the planets effect the sun's position to some extent, but only the two big boys have the most pull, and when they are close to each other with relation to their orbit (as opposed to being on opposite sides of the sun) they cause this phenomenon of hyper weather patterns on Earth. Because of Earth's relatively fast orbital speed, when Jupiter and Saturn are close, we get "squeezed" closer to the sun when we pass between the sun and the gas giants, and get slung out further when we are on the opposite sides. This difference is enough to change things pretty much.
Guess where Jupiter and Saturn are right now?
www.theplanetstoday.com
And they are getting closer, because Jupiter, closer to the sun, orbits faster, and is catching up to Saturn. Since these planets orbit so slowly relative to the Earth, these effects last for a long time. Not just one season.
Jupiter takes almost 12 years to orbit the sun.
Saturn takes almost 30 years.
Do the math (or find a neat animation, they are out there) and you can see that there is a LOT more to climatology than just mankind. That said, I still think doing everything we can within our technological limits while providing a decent way of life and not being wasteful just because it is convenient to do so is a good thing.
Oilhammer, I have to hand it to you. I don't think anyone else would have the guts to
cite an astrology website to back up a theory about planetary motion and weather!
It may be more useful to provide the original 'buried' NASA information.

So I guess we should be looking for weather anomalies every 15 or so years?
OK, that's what my calculations for the alignments would indicate.
But my passing grade in Calculus III reminds me that the Earth's orbit, an ellipse,
will get a speed boost when it passes closer to the sun, minimizing the time spent
there, and then travel further away from the sun and slowing down for a longer time.
Also, when the gas giants are aligned opposite the Earth/sun, the opposite will occur.
Being cyclic and ongoing, none of this accounts for the rapid increase in temperature
averages which are possibly driving weather 'enhancements' that occur more often.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I was trying to find a simple online picture that showed the solar system, nothing more. It is linked to the NASA JPL website. I watch a lot of the NASA channel, heh. But I was only showing that there are a LOT of variables at play that's all.

I am 100% certain I will be able to breath fine 20 years from now. And 20 years after that, I'll likely be dead. And that a lot of the regulations that get thrown around don't actually DO what the original kernel of intent set out to do.

Such is bureaucracy. Walt Disney wanted to build a monorail in Anaheim to the airport. It was going to cost them about $3M to complete this last leg. California spend $9M to study it and tell them why it wasn't feasible.:rolleyes:

So now, we are still the laughing stock on the civilized world with regards to rail. They just recently axed some high speed rail line that really wasn't all THAT high of speed, and represented 20+ year old technology. And now the Elon Musk Hyperloop thing (which is probably literally and figuratively a pipe dream anyway, but hey, at least a step in the right direction) is now said to be going to Dubai.

We're worried about cow farts..... :eek:

But getting back to cars... much of the regulatory items are going to and have already cost some. Motor oils are one of them. We are seeing a LOT of mechanical failures on engines now that we simply did not see 20 years ago. So while the car is certainly "cleaner", and I put that in quotes since clearly cleaner does NOT equal efficiency (Dieselgate), there is not a good case of how much bad stuff finds its way into the ecosystem due to heavier cars, excessively powerful engines, shorter service life of some things, etc. Like tires. Tires' longevity is down. And the sizes are up. Which means, cumulatively, there is MORE rubber being consumed than before. Over a period of 150k miles, a 2015 Corolla probably burns through 50% more tire than a 1995 Corolla did. Does anyone think to look at this? Anyone care? Fuel economy improvements are eaten up by weight and power.

We can no longer have a true compact pickup. They are all gone. We had 35+ MPG pickups in the '80s. Now we pat ourselves on the back for making a 300hp twin turbo behemoth that needs an 11ty speed slushbox transmission to tag 20 with no load.
 
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tikal

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I wish all of you guys whipping your things around having a measuring contest, would answer my initial question. Bahaha. I think I've decided on the 9000 based on franko6 and others recc, but I like learning the technical reasons you guys choose the stuff you use. This has been a very informative thread, nonetheless. Thanks fellas!
I got a good laugh from your first sentence above. Thank you!!!

So you decided on this one?

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/244-9000-td.pdf
 

tydaddy

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tikal

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Interesting. I use optilube xl. Wonder if the archoil would be ok to use?
Apparently for some reason they are popular in the UK:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Archoil-AR6400-D-Professional-Cleaner-Concentrate/dp/B00KQ1ALKC/

AR6400-D MAX Professional Diesel Engine, Turbo, DPF & CAT Cleaner Concentrate A rapid improvement in engine technology has resulted in an imbalance between engine design and fuel quality. This combined with non-optimum driving conditions can result in an accumulation of deposits in the fuel system, combustion area, turbo, diesel particulate filter (DPF) and catalytic converter (CAT). These deposits effect performance, fuel economy, exhaust emissions and engine refinement.

AR6400-D MAX is a powerful next-generation all-in-one fuel system, engine, turbo, DPF and CAT cleaner. It is the culmination of years of research and the decision to combine the original AR6400-D Engine Cleaner, AR6500 DPF Cleaner and AR6600 Turbo Cleaner technologies providing the greatest value and product performance into a single treatment.

AR6400-D MAX helps restore variable geometry turbo operation and diesel particulate filter regeneration and will remove all forms of deposits from fuel injectors including carbons, varnish and stubborn lacquers.


Of course the end result could be 'nothing' but I thought is worth for you to research it since you will be using a somewhat higher SAPS oil. Also I am thinking once every six months or so.
 

CleverUserName

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You're contradicting yourself. First you say that the oil vapor/mist doesn't increase ash loading to the DPF because they don't carry over any metallic additives. Then later, you state "they are almost completely devoid of ash". Almost = Some ash.

So in your own words, apparently the CCV oil load does impact the DPF.

I also read the article you linked too and it says nothing about how additives cannot travel through oil vapor/mist. I know about the issues with repeatability of the NOACK test, however they all use the same averaging in the test. NOACK is still the biggest factor in what seperates a premium synthetic oil from a Walmart synthetic that costs $20 for a 5L jug.

I also could not find anything definitive in googlin' about likelihood of metallic additive carryover in CCV oil mist/vapor.

I will start collecting the oil residue from my Mann provent and send it in for an analysis. I've never done it before but I think it would be interesting to see what is detected. I'm fairly certain there will be some additive carryover and would bet money on it.


Noack volatility really doesn't impact ash loading of the dpf much unless you have an oil burner. This is because the lighter carbon chains that evaporate from the oil don't create ash. The ash comes from the elements in the additive package(calcium, phosphorous, zinc, etc.) that don't vaporize off with the lighter fractions.
No. I'm saying the oil vapors that volatilize off the oil are fairly pure light hydrocarbon fractions almost completely devoid of ash. They can still cause coking in certain applications, but that coke is mostly pure carbon. Think of it like a whiskey still- the end product doesn't have big chunks of decomposing corn because those were left behind in the mash pot. The condensed vapors from an oil that originally had 800 ppm phosphorous might have 10 ppm phosphorous.

btw- NOACK volatility is a valuable criteria, but the testing procedures are notorious for having poor repeatability.

https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/fli-article/noack-volatility-test-set-upheavals/
 

turbobrick240

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Analyze to your hearts content. Oil vapors and mist are not the same thing, btw. The mist has the same composition as the sump oil, the vapors do not. Go ahead and run Amsoil or Red line 15w40, 20w50, whatever if that makes you feel better. It's your car, and your money. I think the OP will be just fine with the Schaeffers 9000 and it's 11% noack. Or any of hundreds of other oils. Life is too short to obsess over these sorts of trivialities. Good day.
 

CleverUserName

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Analyze to your hearts content. Oil vapors and mist are not the same thing, btw. The mist has the same composition as the sump oil, the vapors do not. Go ahead and run Amsoil or Red line 15w40, 20w50, whatever if that makes you feel better. It's your car, and your money. I think the OP will be just fine with the Schaeffers 9000 and it's 11% noack. Or any of hundreds of other oils. Life is too short to obsess over these sorts of trivialities. Good day.
I know the mist and vapor are different however there isn’t anyway to separate the condensed vapor and mist oil in the provent. They will co-mingle.

Don’t get so defensive. “None” is an absolute while some means a small quantity. We both agree a small quantity is present but it took you a little while longer to finally admit it.

Yes I will keep using the 8-9% NOACK 5w40 and 10w40 that I got cheap during sales or with a MIR. You can actually find quality PAO based synthetic oil for $6 qt or less if you buy at the right time. Black Friday had some great sales last year.
 

turbobrick240

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Hey, if you can get the Amsoil cheap, they have some great products. The one thing about Amsoil that annoys me is their marketing. You'd think Noack volatility is the single most important parameter in a lubricant based on their literature. I get it- they use a lot of expensive base stocks and want to hype the advantages those bring. But in a 10k mile oci on tdi's those qualities don't translate into better wear numbers than other more affordable and available oils offer. If you plan to run 20- 25k mile oci's, then I'd say the premium is worthwhile.

If I still had a tdi with a dpf, I'd probably use Mobil1 5w30 ESP, Pennzoil platinum euro l 5w30, or Valvoline MST 5w40. If the 507 oils were really a problem, there would be a lot of tired commonrails out there. There aren't.
 
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