Glow Plugs here Glow Pugs there Glow Plugs every where

Ok all you TDI heads I know this is old hat but here it is, 2002 new Beetle TDI 130,000 plus miles. It’s my Kids car she tells me she can’t start it, bring it into the shop and start to troubleshoot.
Now I have been around this stuff for a long time I have owned caterpillar equipment and heavy trucks, I have been in the aviation maintenance field for 30 years, so this shouldn’t be hard.
The symptoms, are, very hard starting when cold, starts on ether, so I know it runs ok, the glow plug light only stays on for 1 second so I pulled the e.c.t. plug and the light works normal, and car starts.
Changed all the plugs, no help changed e.c.t. no help,(note I bought the e.c.t at AutoZone) I have a glow plug relay but the Bentley manual lied to me the relay panel in slot 10 is vacant and I can’t find the G.D. relay. (that is D)
What are the chances the AutoZone part is faulty or better yet the wrong one?


Help Me Please.
tugman

Man, I sure would think someone with your experience would know to never spray ether in the intake of that car, and that OBD works wonders. Your shotgun approach to diagnosing the issue by throwing parts at it that the ECU already monitors for faults won't get you anywhere.

You did not give us much to go on, but I am now afraid for the health of that car.

The possible list could be long, and I feel I may start talking over your head.

Injectors.

Timing.

Pump prime.

Compression.

Lift sensor.

Cranking RPM.

There are a lot of great TDI folks in your area that could probably help. I hope some of them chime in.

sorry for the scare. but all thats has been checked and no the ether won,t hurt it if it is used sparingly i had to get it running to check all the above, so chill it runs great it just won't start great, I keep't it short so as not to drag out what i thought was the obvious.

Ether can shatter pistons, bend rods, and blow head bolt threads off on VAG diesels... yes, I have seen it done, and yes they all said the same thing you just did.

Don't use ether. You can use WD40, if you like in a little amount, but not ether.

You have some other issue anyways. Is there white smoke in the exhaust while cranking?

No, heavy Black smoke, I am almost 100% positive that it's glow plug related my the computer that i use for my vag com is an old windows 98 and the screen jsut went deep six on me so i need to transfer the program to my window 7 and get a new interface mite have to wait a week or so for that to happen

Heavy BLACK smoke? Black smoke happens from burning diesel, it should be running if it is doing that, and if it is black smoking bad it could be not enough air or some really messed up timing.

There was no MIL on before?

no mil, like I said the heavy black smoke ia the unburned fuel from hard starting, my injector nozzles all checked within the rated paramiters, the timming belt is fine i changed it 20,000 ago and just check the timming 2 hrs ago thats when my laptop took a crap! i have short glow plug cycle and i can,t find the glow plug relay. hell for i know it may be part of the ecm in this model or that ect switch i got form autoZone is funky

OK, you have no OBD capabilties, but since you said no MIL we can assume the components of the glow system are fine, since if there was a fault with any of that the ECU would know this and command the MIL.

So we can rule out the plugs, the harness, etc.

The glow control relay is up under the dash covers, near the ECU, opposite side of the pollen filter. That too would set a DTC if there was an issue with it.

Without OBD, you have no idea what preglow period the ECU is even commanding, so we are back to just guessing. But I can tell you this, even with NO GLOW SYSTEM AT ALL, the ALH should be able to start down to ~30 F with some cranking and smoking. It won't like it, but it'll start.

I suspect you have some other issue still. We need to know what the ECU sees as coolant temp. Usually, coolant temp sensors fail in such a way as to store a DTC in either the ECU or the Instruments, depending on which side of the sensor actually failed.

I would never put ANYthing from Autozone on my cars.

ok thanks for now I will get my vag com up and runing and take a look at it.

ps. Auto Zone was the only thing open at 8:00 pm here

If you don't mind the road trip up to Concord NH I'll be glad to help out. However, I am sure there are VCDS owners closer to you.

ok back up and running on my windows 98 lap top ha ha. glow period is at 9.35 the timming is right on checked agian the ect is working 39deg here it was reading 11c, i had to mil codes but that was because i unplug the ect and the mas those both cleard after reset

After the car has been sitting, preferably overnight, turn the key on (but do not crank the engine) and check via scan tool the following:

In Engine:

Coolant temp
Fuel temp
Intake air temp

In Instruments:

Coolant temp

In Transmission (if automatic):

ATF temp


...all of these values should be very close to identical if it has sat outside all night, and those values should be darn near what the actual air temp is.

Check that, and let us know what you find. For clarity, I would stick with all Metric just so no confusion occurs.

it may be a while i had ir runnig to check the timing. its funny i noticed that the glow light only flickerd when i inishaly tryed to start it with no success and when i pulled the plug on the ect the glow light stayed on for the 20 seconds and it started but started hard. oh and it's a standard

You were fortunate to have one of the Best GURUs assisting you.

Thanks guys i appriciate all the help

oilhammer you were right there was something i over looked. i looked in the egr valve and i can't see through it so i guess i will start there and get that part taken care of and so far all the other things you asked about seam to be working i used my snapon soilus and it showed all temps the same so i'm good there. ithink? i'll get back as soon sa i get the intake cleaned out.

A clogged intake could very well be the culprit. It would explain the black smoke too. There is a great "how to" written up on this forum somewhere. Either in the FAQ section or just by searching on "intake manifold cleaning".

Camelman