www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI (Diesel) Emissions

TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 20th, 2018, 08:37   #1
MM STL
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: St. Louis
TDI(s): 2009 Jetta
Angry VW Requirements for Regeneration

I purchased my 2009 Jetta TDI brand new and it now has 49k miles. I opted for the modification as soon as it was available. At the end of November 2017, the check engine light came on with P2002 (DPF) code. The dealer didn't find any problems and forced a regen. All was well until the same situation happened this month. The dealer contacted VW as he couldn't find any problems other than a regen was needed. VW then instructed that I MUST drive "50+ miles at a time, at highway speeds, at least once per month" to create a regeneration. The dealer stated VW didn't want to cover this visit under the warranty but the dealer was going to "write it off" because they were unaware of this requirement also. Any one else had this situation? My Jetta would regen frequently before the modification. My driving habits haven't changed. I live in St. Louis where I would have to drive out of the metro area to get in 50 miles at a time!
MM STL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2018, 08:48   #2
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

Unfortunately, the post-mod fuel management is going to mean the car will use more fuel, so it will make more particle matter, which means the DPF will have to work more to get the job done.

You have such low mileage for a nine year old car, especially a TDI, it makes me think you are probably not the best match for the car. DPF equipped diesels like long highway drives, just the way it is.

I would look into an OBD-compliant tune/delete if you want to continue to drive your car in the city. Or trade it off for a gasoline fueled car, electric car, or an older pre-DPF TDI.

Your driving habits may have been OK before, since the car was "cheating" it was not using as much fuel. So the passive DPF regens were probably just fine. Now it isn't enough, and a blast down the highway is what is needed.

Some folks use some sort of engine data monitor to know when a regen is needed, or is happening, and adjust their driving habits accordingly. Personally, I would not own a car that required THAT much of me. I'd modify it, or drive something else.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com

Last edited by oilhammer; February 20th, 2018 at 08:50.
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2018, 08:53   #3
leicaman
Veteran Member
 
leicaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin
Fuel Economy: Much better than the average car... :o)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
Unfortunately, the post-mod fuel management is going to mean the car will use more fuel, so it will make more particle matter, which means the DPF will have to work more to get the job done.
You have such low mileage for a nine year old car, especially a TDI, it makes me think you are probably not the best match for the car. DPF equipped diesels like long highway drives, just the way it is.
I would look into an OBD-compliant tune/delete if you want to continue to drive your car in the city. Or trade it off for a gasoline fueled car, electric car, or an older pre-DPF TDI.
Your driving habits may have been OK before, since the car was "cheating" it was not using as much fuel. So the passive DPF regens were probably just fine. Now it isn't enough, and a blast down the highway is what is needed.
Some folks use some sort of engine data monitor to know when a regen is needed, or is happening, and adjust their driving habits accordingly. Personally, I would not own a car that required THAT much of me. I'd modify it, or drive something else.
Indeed. I drive my 2015 Golf TDI for work and often the company sends me on a job that results in a 100 plus mile trip. TDI, particularly the newer ones, need a good run on the highway. I've only had the dpf idiot light come on once, to remind me to go on the road. It was an excuse for me to travel 30 miles to a truck stop that has a really good bakery.
__________________
2015 Golf SE TDI with DSG, 61k.
2005 Passat GLS TDI - RIP, 208k miles. Many good memories and friends made with this car.
leicaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2018, 10:22   #4
MM STL
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: St. Louis
TDI(s): 2009 Jetta
Default

Thanks for the info! I poured over each piece of information that was released by VW prior to choosing modification vs buy back and would not have chosen to keep the Jetta if I knew this was the case. I feel duped, again.

Another question: Should i wait until the CEL comes on, then take a long drive. Would that cause any long term damage? I'd hate for VW to come back and say it wasn't covered under warranty.
MM STL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2018, 10:28   #5
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

Well to be fair, nobody at the dealer (and likely no one at Volkswagen in this country) really could have known for sure what if any bad could come from the fix.

Although, while I am no scientist, I do understand the basics of NOx enough to know that in order to reduce it, you need to take away more free oxygen in the intake air charge, and the only way to do that is to run even more EGR, and use more fuel, and that means the DPF gets used more. So, unless they were going to retrofit SCR on to your car, there really is no other way. Bound to happen.

You can proactively drive the car down the highway once in a while, weekends or whatever (I drive 100 miles a day myself), and hope it gets the DPF happy. It most likely will. But, if you want a little better information to arm yourself with, a data monitor like a Scangauge or similar, will help out. That way at least you will KNOW when and if a trip is in order. You may also find that changing how you drive right now will help, like using a lower gear than you otherwise would for instance.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2018, 12:02   #6
Lightflyer1
Veteran Member
 
Lightflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Default

You have been short tripping the car since new and gotten away with it. They don't like doing this at all. With the new fix software you got caught finally. You will have to take an active role in dpf regens if you want to keep it healthy. The key to it all is knowing when a regen is coming due and making driving allowances for it. I use an app that tells me this info but it seems it is now unsupported and doesn't support your engine type. Torque another app has made some progress in this regard and may help you monitor what is happening.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=464119

Then there is the old brute force method of just taking long drives and hoping a regen happens while you are out there.

You really bought the wrong car for your driving habits. It may be better to consider another car if possible. Good luck!

Mine happen about every 250 +/- miles, so you will need a drive somewhere in that ball park to regen the dpf every time.
__________________
How to post pics:http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...t=post+picture
2015 Beetle TDI.
Lightflyer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2018, 15:55   #7
STLTDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: St. Louis, MO
Default

I'm somewhat in the same boat. About 16 days of the month my TDI takes a short 10 mile round trip on side roads. 8-10 days it stays garaged. I make it a point to take at least a 50 mile round trip on the hwy twice a month if it doesn't happen in my normal travels. Drive out to Hermann and get some sausages!

I know a gasoline car might be better, but I take 2-3 1800 mile round trips per year where the cruising range is my priority ...and... I just love diesels.

Last edited by STLTDI; February 21st, 2018 at 16:18.
STLTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2018, 13:58   #8
jesus_man
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Illinois
Default

We've learned this with another brand of German car, new enough to need DEF. We (my wife) was babying the car, trying to eek out all the MPG's. In the end, this backfired with strange emissions related issues. So after talking to some enthusiasts, we changed our driving habits and the car has been great since. I've also added in a fuel treatment regime and we're enjoying the best fuel mileage we've ever gotten. We don't perform the "Italian tuneup" every day, but I tell her that at least once a week, after the engine is warmed up drop it into sport mode and do a couple 0-60 dashes. And when I get the chance to drive it, I drive it pretty hard.

Gassers are more lenient for short commutes, but they will still gum up just the same.

Just make it a point to take the car outside the city somewhere. Do some site seeing once or twice a month. It'll be nice for you and the car!
__________________
2010 JSW TDI DSG in gray with black interior

2009 JSW TDI DSG - sold back to VW
2002 VW Passat Wagon, 6spd, silver Family hauler! - Euro Spec

2006 Jetta TDI Bought 6/25/06 (traded in 10/2009 @ 43mpg
jesus_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2018, 03:31   #9
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

I am local to some of you guys, if you need someone who likes caring for these cars for general service please feel free to contact me.

Some folks come from much further.... like Wisconsin even
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2018, 09:40   #10
leicaman
Veteran Member
 
leicaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin
Fuel Economy: Much better than the average car... :o)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
I am local to some of you guys, if you need someone who likes caring for these cars for general service please feel free to contact me.
Some folks come from much further.... like Wisconsin even
Yes Brian, you are on my short list. You will be doing my timing belt on my Golf when the time arrives.
__________________
2015 Golf SE TDI with DSG, 61k.
2005 Passat GLS TDI - RIP, 208k miles. Many good memories and friends made with this car.
leicaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2018, 12:23   #11
STLTDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: St. Louis, MO
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leicaman View Post
Yes Brian, you are on my short list. You will be doing my timing belt on my Golf when the time arrives.
Same. My GSW only has 7500 miles on it, but after its first included maintenance, you’ll have my business.
STLTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2018, 14:20   #12
MM STL
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: St. Louis
TDI(s): 2009 Jetta
Default

Well, everyone, this changes things. I decided to drive to Waterloo, IL- about 25 miles from my home. I was passing a semi at 70 mph when the CEL came on! Now it's only been 120 miles and 12 days since I was last at the dealer (see first message). It was the P2002 code again. Another contact with VW corporate tech ensued and I have an appointment to change out the converter, under warranty. Obviously, it's not JUST my driving habits.
MM STL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2018, 10:12   #13
SilverGhost
Veteran Member
 
SilverGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Old Hickory, TN. Settling here...
Default

P2002 Particulate Trap Bank 1 Efficiency Below Threshold. That looks to me like all you short trips from before the modification have come back to bite you. It's not asking for a regen, its saying the regen is not effective. I would hazard a guess if you looked inside the substrate is cracked.

Jason
SilverGhost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2018, 11:39   #14
fastalan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Richmond BC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGhost View Post
P2002 Particulate Trap Bank 1 Efficiency Below Threshold. That looks to me like all you short trips from before the modification have come back to bite you. It's not asking for a regen, its saying the regen is not effective. I would hazard a guess if you looked inside the substrate is cracked.

Jason
Remember the OP has the 2009 model year so his car also received a brand new DPF. All his short trips before fix on the original DPF didn't cause any CEL.

It is probably that the OP continues to drive in a manner that is unsuitable for the new DPF/software, thus triggering multiple P2002 CEL OR he simply received a bad set of DPF/EGR filter.
__________________
2k10 Golf TDI Wagon 6-sp manual
2k06 Mini Cooper CVT
1994 Aerostar cargo

Last edited by fastalan; February 28th, 2018 at 11:42.
fastalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2018, 08:13   #15
Steve Addy
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Iowa
TDI(s): 97 Mk3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGhost View Post
P2002 Particulate Trap Bank 1 Efficiency Below Threshold. That looks to me like all you short trips from before the modification have come back to bite you. It's not asking for a regen, its saying the regen is not effective. I would hazard a guess if you looked inside the substrate is cracked.

Jason
Quote:
Originally Posted by hichamaziz View Post
That looks to me like all you short trips from before the modification have come back to bite you.


Looks to me like we have a bot here...
__________________
97 Jetta TDI, 90 B3V TDI, 92 MB 300SD

You didn't poison the coffee, did you? Not anymore than I usually do.
Steve Addy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DPF regeneration - why OEMs (VW) does it every 200-300 miles SilverGhost TDI (Diesel) Emissions 5 December 16th, 2015 16:50
Maintenance Requirements for the 2002 VW Golf TDI. larrymcfall TDI 101 3 September 9th, 2006 21:07
VW violates Magnuson Moss with PD oil requirements Chris B Fuels & Lubricants 21 March 4th, 2004 11:34
CURRENT 2001 VW TDI OIL REQUIREMENTS SkyPup Fuels & Lubricants 62 August 21st, 2001 00:58
VW dealer oil requirements clacker VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 8 March 30th, 2000 06:24


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
© 1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.16618 seconds with 13 queries
[Output: 135.19 Kb. compressed to 113.40 Kb. by saving 21.79 Kb. (16.12%)]