BHW 2.0L PD Donor for an allroad with TDI 01E (UBERWGN II)

I've got this burning desire to build one kick ass allroad PD TDI.

Have the car, 2004 2.7T and a Trans, TDI 01E with a 3.89 FD.
Picked up an 05 Passat wagon with a bad slushbox for the motor and swap parts. Now I'm trying to figure out just what I should do to make this dog hunt. The BHW is in great shape. The BSM has been done along with the EGR cooler. I haven't pulled the cam cover yet but she idles nice. It has 160K miles so most likely a Colt Stg II cam is in her future.

The broke side of me want fuel mileage and dependability but the Bad Boy side, Yea I still got one at 54 years old Wants one bad ass MOFO.

Been browsing the vendor sites looking at different turbos, manifold, nozzles and support parts like an FMIC and a custom downpipe. Going to need a clutch and FW solution. I've heard that the new thing is a GTB2060vk with Bosio Nozzles (R783).Not sure if I'd need a custom manifold and a DP fabbed up. Also heard good things about the GT 17/20 hybrid with some PP +30% nozzles but that looks to be limited in HP.

Basically I'd just like to hear some options and opinions. What would you do and why? I'm not up to speed on all the new stuff and tricks so any help/advise will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for reading this far and I'm look forward to hearing from you all. I plan to take my time with this project, Spread the cost out some so the wife stays onboard. My path at this point is uncertain but it will be built and I hope to share my adventure and maybe a few rides with you all. Thanks

I would probably tune it at a minimum and drive it for a while and see if you like it. Maybe that's all you'll want. I'm not too sure what kind of the fueling the BHW has in stock form (Say compared to the BEW) but I'm guessing a Stage II tune will be a lot of fun. If that's not enough, then go all out.

LNXGUY said:

I would probably tune it at a minimum and drive it for a while and see if you like it. Maybe that's all you'll want. I'm not too sure what kind of the fueling the BHW has in stock form (Say compared to the BEW) but I'm guessing a Stage II tune will be a lot of fun. If that's not enough, then go all out.

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This is exactly my plan for mine (whenever I can stay in the country long enough to finish it.....).
Excluding that I did a clutch that would handle a mostly all out build, as I only wanted to buy a clutch once.

My "next step" would be to do a 1756 or 2056 and some large nozzles.

I think what's important to keep in mind is the extra weight and added driveline losses of the mechanical quarto system. And also the weight of the hefty allroad in general.

Keeping a somewhat smaller turbo to keep it "punchy" is probably wise. That's why I think I would not suggest to do a 2260.

i've run both a 1749vc and a 2260vk - I'd highly recommend a 2056vk for driveability

Get the swap done, running and sorted out first, then screw with it later.

The OP will also need a 3.89 rear diff as the Allroad manual has 4.375, donno about automatic.

What I'd like to know about an Allroad TDI swap is for cars with air suspension whether the ECU adaptations for said suspension can somehow be retained.

Thanks for the responses.Its encouraging. The allroad is approx. 600lbs heavier than the passat variant. I've got the chassis all sorted with New Arnott G2 bags, Bilstein HD shocks with heavy duty bump stops, Hotchkis sway bars, APR drivetrain stabilizer, APR street poly rear diff mounts. I'll probably go with a wavetrac rear diff because I have one in my other allroad and love it.

Getting it installed and sorted doesn't look to be rocket science and not having to deal with the 6 speed swap makes the job all that much easier. I've read thru the forum posts and come away with alot of confusing info. What ecu do I use? What starter?
Best clutch and fly wheel combo.

You guy's are correct in that I can always go bigger on the turbo and injection but I'd rather do it all in one shot and not have to spend my time running logs and fiddling with tunes. Rather build it and bring it to a tuner/dyno and be done with it

I'm probably wrong in my thinking, Wife reminds me of that almost daily.

TDIMeister, The trans is a TDI 3.89 and I have the matching rear diff. Air suspension has its own ecu and is not effected by tuning.

I'm definitely interested to know how you keep full air suspension functionality with a different ECU. Maybe you've heard of the "402 mod"? I know the suspension has its own ECU, but it still has to interface with the engine ECU -- which I'm assuming you're taking right out of the Passat or whatever, no?

The ultimate turbo for this application (my opinion) is a GTD1752VRK. Otherwise, GTB2060VKLR. Of course, If I had the wherewithal for having such a project, I'd be doing a 2-stage turbo setup myself.

What transmission code are you using?

I'd recommend sticking to a DMF clutch around a Sachs SRE disk and pressure plate. I have not read of anyone being 100% satisfied with any other solution from the all-around standpoint of durability, torque capacity and NVH. It's a little spendy, but you've already gone so far with such a sweet project that it would be a shame to skimp and regret, since as you yourself have said, get it done and over with.

I've long lusted after a C-chassis Avant quattro TDI, starting from owning 2 UrS4s. A TDI swap into this would be my ultimate dream.

TDIMeister said:

Get the swap done, running and sorted out first, then screw with it later.

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I couldn't agree with this more.

TDIMeister said:

What transmission code are you using?
...
A TDI swap into this would be my ultimate dream.

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During my research, there were not too many diesel geared 01E's that were 3.89 final drive ratio. I ended up with the FTL, which again, in my research, I think it the tallest ratio transmission available.

I have a spreadsheet on my home PC with a bunch of different trans codes and all their respective ratios that I can share with TDIclub.

That color blue on an allroad is sooo amazing!

TDIMeister said:

I'm definitely interested to know how you keep full air suspension functionality with a different ECU. Maybe you've heard of the "402 mod"? I know the suspension has its own ECU, but it still has to interface with the engine ECU -- which I'm assuming you're taking right out of the Passat or whatever, no?

The ultimate turbo for this application (my opinion) is a GTD1752VRK. Otherwise, GTB2060VKLR. Of course, If I had the wherewithal for having such a project, I'd be doing a 2-stage turbo setup myself.

What transmission code are you using?

I'd recommend sticking to a DMF clutch around a Sachs SRE disk and pressure plate. I have not read of anyone being 100% satisfied with any other solution from the all-around standpoint of durability, torque capacity and NVH. It's a little spendy, but you've already gone so far with such a sweet project that it would be a shame to skimp and regret, since as you yourself have said, get it done and over with.

I've long lusted after a C-chassis Avant quattro TDI, starting from owning 2 UrS4s. A TDI swap into this would be my ultimate dream.

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The suspension ecu interfaces with the ESP Module and ABS. You'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable than I as how the passat TDI tune will play with the air ride. If it doesn't I'll have some very expensive allroad suspension components for sale. Would really hate to go static but we have the technology to do that to. My allroad is 402 and is sporting the IPP arms that extend the range of adjustment in height. When doing the 402 mod you log into the level control module not the engine ecu. http://www.audiworld.com/forums/aud...di-allroad-suspension-adjustment-how-2038902/

QuickTD said:

With no mods other than a stage 2 tune, a BHW will blow a BEW into the weeds. There is no comparison, it's a 30hp difference.

.

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No ****, I don't think anyone is debating that.

I was trying to hint at the fact that if the BHW has the reserve fueling like the BEW has, a Stage II tune will be a lot of fun

The allroad is a heavy car and the 2.0 Tdi is rather small to move 2 tonnes + compensate for drive train loses, i would swap a 3.0Tdi engine in it ! Even a 2.5 tdi tuned engine struggles to make the allroad sporty, i will upgrade the brakes first- the rs4 b7 brakes bolt right on !

adamss24 said:

The allroad is a heavy car and the 2.0 Tdi is rather small to move 2 tonnes + compensate for drive train loses, i would swap a 3.0Tdi engine in it ! Even a 2.5 tdi tuned engine struggles to make the allroad sporty, i will upgrade the brakes first- the rs4 b7 brakes bolt right on !

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Can't agree with you more but it is what it is. I've got a 2.0L BHW to work with.

adamss24 said:

The allroad is a heavy car and the 2.0 Tdi is rather small to move 2 tonnes + compensate for drive train loses, i would swap a 3.0Tdi engine in it ! Even a 2.5 tdi tuned engine struggles to make the allroad sporty, i will upgrade the brakes first- the rs4 b7 brakes bolt right on !

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No kidding! I mean, come on, 2.5L V6 TDIs are easily sourced, I just saw 6 on eBay last night! I mean, how many did they sell here? Hundreds? Thousands? Oh, wait, it was ZERO. I forgot.

When my 1.8t 4Mo B5V needs an engine, it will get a BHW. But until then, I am not going to abuse the AWM... it is at 205k miles and runs perfectly still. Doesn't pull like the diesel, though. Not even close. Feels downright lethargic in comparison. BHW is a strong engine.

Sometimes, using as many locally optioned pieces as possible makes things easier, and servicing in the future less of a headache. I'd love a TDI in my T4, with a manual, but they never sold them here and the logistics of getting one here are just too much of a headache to deal with.

Hey oilhammer. Glad to see you found the thread. I'm looking at turbos right now and have been told that the 17/22 unit that Fran's offers is the way to go
for ease and a slight power upgrade. You have any experience with it? I'd like as close to bolt on as possible and would even go with the stock turbo that's on the engine just to get started. Unfortunetly it had a slight whine and I don't trust it.

I'm also going to delete the egr and I see a really nice kit from Darkside. Anyone used that kit and will it fit the BHW. Say's PD in the description.

As far as weight, The allroad runs approx. 600 pounds more than the B5.5 Variant. In other words, 2 Fat girls and their snacks. I think with a slightly more robust turbo and some + nozzles I should be just fine.

My trans code is GLX .56 ultra tall 6th, 3.89FD. It has the diff cooler which is really cool because I just happen to have the 800.00 lines for it.

Hmmm strange I don't see the GLX code and its ratios in my search.

Anyway, for those advocating the 2.5 V6 instead, 2 - make that 3 - things: 1) They, especially early ones with Axx engines codes, were very problematic and love to eat camshafts. And you thought BRMs were bad... 2) You'd need a 2.5 ECU, which means Euro-only and therefore no OBD-II. Good luck getting that to pass NY state emissions inspection. 3) Good luck finding spare parts on this side of the border. I'll add a last minute 4) They're highly overrated when it comes to performance enhancement potential due to the utter lack of good upgraded injector nozzle options.

The BHW has great potential and is relatively plentiful stateside. I would do no different there. R783 nozzles, a wisely chosen turbo (I would not advise to severely limit yourself to merely bolt-ons) and tune will put you at least where the stock 2.7tt gasser was making HP-wise with tons more torque.

Agree with upgrading the brakes.

Good luck with the project! What colour is your car? Pics (actually a thread in the TDI Conversions forum) would be great.

Edit: OTOH, a NA-sourced 3.0 V6 would be cool, but would mean rethinking (and rebudgeting) the whole project from scratch. Like the OP said, the BHW is what he has to work with.

I also have never seen the code GLX, but with the 0.56 6th gear and 3.889 final drive, it sounds very similar to my FTL code 01E.

My FTL trans has the following ratios...
Final Drive 3.889
1st 3.750
2nd 2.059
3rd 1.320
4th 0.933
5th 0.711
6th 0.561
Please let me know if yours are the same, I'd like to add the GLX code to my spreadsheet either way.

Mine also has the fluid pump and external cooler ability, however, I do not have the tubing that hooks up to it.
For initial runs, I'm just going to loop it together, but I'd like to get it piped up properly in the end.

Scott02 said:

I also have never seen the code GLX, but with the 0.56 6th gear and 3.889 final drive, it sounds very similar to my FTL code 01E.

My FTL trans has the following ratios...
Final Drive 3.889
1st 3.750
2nd 2.059
3rd 1.320
4th 0.933
5th 0.711
6th 0.561
Please let me know if yours are the same, I'd like to add the GLX code to my spreadsheet either way.

Mine also has the fluid pump and external cooler ability, however, I do not have the tubing that hooks up to it.
For initial runs, I'm just going to loop it together, but I'd like to get it piped up properly in the end.

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Yup same ratios. The cooler plumbing is expensive if bought new. 800.00 from dealer but you can actually get by with just the 2 trans sections that have the banjo fitting and fab the rest up using the auto trans lines.

TDIMeister said:

Hmmm strange I don't see the GLX code and its ratios in my search.

Anyway, for those advocating the 2.5 V6 instead, 2 - make that 3 - things: 1) They, especially early ones with Axx engines codes, were very problematic and love to eat camshafts. And you thought BRMs were bad... 2) You'd need a 2.5 ECU, which means Euro-only and therefore no OBD-II. Good luck getting that to pass NY state emissions inspection. 3) Good luck finding spare parts on this side of the border. I'll add a last minute 4) They're highly overrated when it comes to performance enhancement potential due to the utter lack of good upgraded injector nozzle options.

The BHW has great potential and is relatively plentiful stateside. I would do no different there. R783 nozzles, a wisely chosen turbo (I would not advise to severely limit yourself to merely bolt-ons) and tune will put you at least where the stock 2.7tt gasser was making HP-wise with tons more torque.

Agree with upgrading the brakes.

Good luck with the project! What colour is your car? Pics (actually a thread in the TDI Conversions forum) would be great.

Edit: OTOH, a NA-sourced 3.0 V6 would be cool, but would mean rethinking (and rebudgeting) the whole project from scratch. Like the OP said, the BHW is what he has to work with.

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So what turbo would you recommend? Darkside has a BV43 that looks interesting for £775.00.

My 04 allroad is all setup to handle just about any thing power wise I bolt in. It presently has a K04 Stage 3 2.7T under the hood. B7 RS big brakes up front and allroad 4.2 in the rear. Hotchkis sway's front and rear, APR drivetrain stabilizer, BlackForest motor mounts which I'm hoping to be able to reuse, APR rear diff mounts and a set of Arnott G2 bags with Bilstein HD shocks.
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co....bv43-turbocharger-for-2-0-tdi-audi-a4-b7.html

TDIMeister said:

Hmmm strange I don't see the GLX code and its ratios in my search.

Anyway, for those advocating the 2.5 V6 instead, 2 - make that 3 - things: 1) They, especially early ones with Axx engines codes, were very problematic and love to eat camshafts. And you thought BRMs were bad... 2) You'd need a 2.5 ECU, which means Euro-only and therefore no OBD-II. Good luck getting that to pass NY state emissions inspection. 3) Good luck finding spare parts on this side of the border. I'll add a last minute 4) They're highly overrated when it comes to performance enhancement potential due to the utter lack of good upgraded injector nozzle options.

The BHW has great potential and is relatively plentiful stateside. I would do no different there. R783 nozzles, a wisely chosen turbo (I would not advise to severely limit yourself to merely bolt-ons) and tune will put you at least where the stock 2.7tt gasser was making HP-wise with tons more torque.
.

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It's longlife servicing that killed most early engines with A** engines, however cam kits are rather cheap and easy to fit with decent mechanical skills. AKE/BAU engine with Bosio race nozzles will idle fine and have up to 400 BHp fuelling potential. Add 600-700 Nn of torque, a early solid inter cooler and a Sachs SRE clutch and you will be laughing ! Ride quality is an issue and I had mine on s8 D3 20" alloys with rs6 anti roll bars, rs4 brakes all road and a gtb2260vk turbo and it was a hoot to drive, handling sucks though !

chrisroser said:

So what turbo would you recommend?

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Define your power target and it will be easier to narrow down your options. I already gave 2 recommendations earlier up.

I would like to be in the 225-250 hp range. I'm told by Frans that the 17/22 hybrid is good for 200hp. The plus is that its a bolt on turbo.

I did search for the 2 turbos you mentioned, GTD1752VRK and GTB2060VKLR but didn't have much luck finding a price or picture. I'm assuming that they will require modification for my application. I'd like to stay as close to plug and play as possible but that may not be an option.

A third turbo option is the GTB1749VZ used in each bank in the 385 HP 4.2 V8 TDI. In stock form in the original application, each turbo supports 192.5 HP of airflow. It supposedly has ball bearings too but the designation doesn't suggest as such.

I don't like and don't recommend the 17/22 only because it's not an OEM turbo. Its bits might come from OEM applications, but we've come to know that the GT17 and GT22 don't refer to only two specific turbos but rather two whole families of them with different trims, etc., and the true power supported by each half of the hybrid are not usually known to the public or even the vendor... There are GT22s used in VWs that in their original applications produce only 100/108 HP (Transporter TDI ANJ/AXL/etc, 454192-xxxx). Also the GT-series utilize the first-generation VNT technology whereas we are now in the 4th with the GTDs. The later generations have more reliable vane adjustment mechanisms, lower rotating inertia, flow better at a given frame size and have more advanced wheel aerodynamics (higher compressor/turbine isentropic efficiencies and better EMP:IMP ratio).

For those without knowledge of the provenance of the components or access to maps, the guiding principle of selecting a turbo should be to look at the power output of the original engine from which the turbo came.