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Old January 4th, 2005, 13:16   #16
SUNRG
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Just thought I'd add that we're definitely going to be getting an ELF Excellium DID 505.01 VOA and UOAs.

I just spoke at length with Scott at:

Sabre-Chem, Inc.
Tulsa, OK 74170
USA
(918) 587-1555
scott@sabrechem.com

and if anyone is interested in trying the Elf products I'd recommend giving him a call.
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Old January 5th, 2005, 10:22   #17
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Here's the VOA results for the Castrol and Motul 505.01s and the Motul 506.01. I'm looking forward to getting Elf VOAs soon...



Data Sheets:
Motul 505.01
Motul 506.01
Castrol 505.01 ???
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Old January 5th, 2005, 10:34   #18
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Cool, thanks for doing this. It would be interesting to add the Castrol 505.00 oil to this simply for comparison. I wonder if anyone has it...
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Old January 5th, 2005, 15:36   #19
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

dieseldorf PMd me this link to a VOA comparison between Amsoil 5w-40 and Castrol 505.01

while i'd like this thread be primarily about 505.01 approved oils, the comparison the results highlight either a significant difference in labs or a difference in our Castrol 505.01 samples...

Amsoil 5w-40/Castrol, 505.01
Analysis performed by Blackstone Labs....
Vis @ 100C... 15.0 Cst/13.7 Cst
HT/HS...4.2 Cp/?
Noack...5.5%/?
FP, +449F/+440F
PP, -59F/-60F
TBN/ASTM D-4739 ...12.4/12.1
Silicon ...4 ppm/1 ppm - antifoam additive
Detergent/Dispersant additives:
Calcium...3243 ppm/2361 ppm
Mag ......11 ppm/8 ppm
Antiwear additives:
Phosphorus..906 ppm/1045 ppm
Zinc .......1000 ppm/1270 ppm
Moly....none/none
Boron ..none/none

while most of the VOA values for Castrol 505.01 are similar to the VOA Oil Analyzers performed - Blackstone arrived at a strikingly different TBN using the same ASTM testing method: 12.1 Blackstone / 9.12 Oil Analyzers, Inc..

12.1 is just too high for the Castrol 505.01 TBN. this being the case, it brings into question the Amsoil TBN result of 12.4.
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Old January 5th, 2005, 15:56   #20
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

So for us non-oil smart guys. you want as higher numbers of
Phosphorus Zinc Moly Boron?

And then lower numbers of iron and silicon?

???
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Old January 5th, 2005, 16:01   #21
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

here are two UOAs performed on Castrol 505.01 by the OilGuard lab. while this is the least expensive UOA lab (as little as $9 per analysis) it returns less data - specifically omitting antiwear additive data.

the slightly higher oxidation value correlates with the viscosity increase in the 2nd sample - but both are fine. the TBN of only 6.6 of the 1st sample seems a bit low - but the 2nd sample's 9.4 is very good.

the low TBN value from the 1st sample may support the argument for doing the first change prior the recommended 5k. however, i just looked at tomo366's 5-10k Motul UOA and it returned a TBN of 6.24 in his PD134 - so maybe a mid 6 TBN is fine. unfortunately, spicy red's lab does not return TBN results - unless i'm just not finding it on his sheet...


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Old January 5th, 2005, 16:07   #22
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

03_01_TDI - i'm nearly as new to this as you are. here's text straight from the www.bobistheoilguy.com

Physical Tests
Some of the physical properties tested for and usually included in analysis of an oil sample are:

Antifreeze - forms a gummy substance that may reduce oil flow. It leads to high oxidation, oil thickening, high acidity, and engine failure if not corrected.
Fuel dilution - thins oil, lowers lubricating ability, and might drop oil pressure. This usually causes higher wear.
Oxidation - measures gums, varnishes and oxidation products. High oxidation from oil used too hot or too long can leave sludge and varnish deposits and thicken the oil.
Total Base Number - generally indicates the acid-neutralizing capacity still in the lubricant.
Total Solids - include ash, carbon, lead salts from gasoline engines, and oil oxidation.
Viscosity - is a measure of an oil's resistance to flow. Oil may thin due to shear in multi-viscosity oils or by dilution with fuel. Oil may thicken from oxidation when run too long or too hot. Oil also may thicken from contamination by antifreeze, sugar and other materials.

Metal Tests
Some of the metals tested for and usually included in analysis of an oil sample and their potential sources are:

Aluminum (Al): Thrust washers, bearings and pistons are made of this metal. High readings can be from piston skirt scuffing, excessive ring groove wear, broken thrust washers, etc.
Boron, Magnesium, Calcium, Barium, Phosphorous, and Zinc: These metals are normally from the lubricating oil additive package. They involve detergents, dispersants, extreme-pressure additives, etc.
Chromium (CR): Normally associated with piston rings. High levels can be caused by dirt coming through the air intake or broken rings.
Copper (CU), Tin: These metals are normally from bearings or bushings and valve guides. Oil coolers also can contribute to copper readings along with some oil additives. In a new engine these results will normally be high during break-in, but will decline in a few hundred hours.
Iron (Fe): This can come from many places in the engine such as liners, camshafts, crankshaft, valve train, timing gears, etc.
Lead (Pb): Use of regular gasoline will cause very high test results. Also associated with bearing wear, but fuel source (leaded gasoline) and sampling contamination (use of galvanized containers for sampling) are critical in interpreting this metal.
Silicon (Si): High readings generally indicate dirt or fine sand contamination from a leaking air intake system. This would act as an abrasive, causing excessive wear. Silicon is also used as a anti-foam agent in some oils. more on silicon
Sodium (Na): High readings of this metal normally are associated with a coolant leak, but can be from an oil additive package.
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Old January 6th, 2005, 17:54   #23
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

i put the Motul 506.01 in my Golf this evening and i'll be sending a 5k sample of Castrol 505.01 to Oil Analyzers tomorrow.

i used an Amsoil oil sample pump and i drew out a sample, discarded it in case the tubing or container had loose contaminants in it, then drew out a second sample to send in. i plan to use this same technique for intermediate and oil change samples to be consistent.

i did the initial change at 3k on my Golf and it just went over 8k today.

if the 5k analysis of 506.01 looks good i'll keep it in for 10k.

Elf 505.01 should be on it's way to me, but Scott was not sure if Elf 506.01 is available in NA. he said he might be able to get me 5 quarts to test but if it's not going to be offered in NA there's really no point in testing it.

more to come...
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Old January 6th, 2005, 18:11   #24
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Quote:

Elf 505.01 should be on it's way to me, but Scott was not sure if Elf 506.01 is available in NA. he said he might be able to get me 5 quarts to test but if it's not going to be offered in NA there's really no point in testing it.



that's strange. Scott told me a few weeks ago that he thought he had some 506.01 and if not he could get it He even quoted me pricing on it. FWIW, it does appear on the US website.
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Old January 6th, 2005, 19:58   #25
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

i was looking for it as well, not on the website.. DD what did you get quoted? Know of anywhere else to get a 506.01??
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Old January 6th, 2005, 21:03   #26
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Hi everyone,

I am not ashamed to admit that I have no idea what you guys are saying in these posts but I do have a question.
Does any of this change the 505.01 Motul or Castrol recommendation for the PD 2.0??
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Old January 6th, 2005, 22:43   #27
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

houstontdi, a VW 505.01 oil must be used in the 2.0 PD, whether it's Castol, Motul, or Elf.
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Old January 7th, 2005, 03:48   #28
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

skinz:


web link


11-5-2004:

Quote:
I had a note from Scott at SabreChem this morning and he says he has (or can order) the Elf 506.01 0W-30 oil. He quotes the price at $16/L and about $22 for shipping...



That's some expense oil but may be a decent solution for those doing huge annual mileage.
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Old January 7th, 2005, 03:51   #29
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Thanks Ferrari!
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Old January 7th, 2005, 08:46   #30
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Default Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

skinz2k5TDI - to my knowledge only Motul 506.01 is currently available. Probably any Motul retailer could have it drop shipped to you. Below is a link to one source.

while it's almost certainly superior to 505.01, i wouldn't blame Elf if they decided not to bring it to NA. at $16/litre, and no NA vehicles recommneding or requiring it, how much could they reasonably expect to sell...

i asked Bob, a Motul distributer in TX, why they even have 506.01 in the US and he had no clear answer. he speculated that they're just trying to determine if there's any market for it. he said that to his knowledge i am the only person in the US that has purchased Motul 506.01.

i put the 506.01 in my Golf PD last night and it drives great - but it drove great yesterday too (with 505.01 ).

506.01 sources
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