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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014)

VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) Discussions area for A6/MkVI (2010-2014) Golf and Golf Wagons (Jetta Sportwagon in the USA).

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Old August 18th, 2019, 08:32   #16
turbobrick240
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Propane is a waste of time and money on the commonrails. The diesel gets so finely atomized by the ultra high pressures that lpg does nothing to improve the burn.
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Old August 20th, 2019, 19:28   #17
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Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
Propane is a waste of time and money on the commonrails. The diesel gets so finely atomized by the ultra high pressures that lpg does nothing to improve the burn.
Have you tried it? Do you know this for a fact? Without the dpf. These will blow black. Will still improve efficiency. Even as little as it may be. Especially when I delete and flash.
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Old August 20th, 2019, 22:34   #18
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I’ll have to side with turbobrick on this one. Because he raised a point that I have no personal experience, I turned to the interwebs. Of course, all of the companies selling propane injection systems think it’s a good idea, along with the magazines that those companies advertise in. Most made no mention of the differences between indirect injection diesels like my GM 6.5L TD Suburban and TDi technology, and there are considerable differences between the two. I did find an article from an aftermarket diesel company that I consider to be reputable. https://official.bankspower.com/tech...ne-the-diesel/
Their initial opinions about the standard propane injection claims sound correct to me, and sound similar to turbobrick’s position.

That said, people believe what they believe (confirmation bias) so maybe the only way to truly evaluate the idea is to do an installation and objectively measure the results. Short of that, I would go with whatever reasonably unbiased opinions you can find.

BTW, back in my Honda days, there were lots of go-fast mods that people swore by, that were easily debunked. But even when proven ineffective, the guys that had bought in, still believed.
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Old August 21st, 2019, 06:19   #19
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just a question for clarity. I thought only the 15s had two parts to the fix. My 10 JSW was a one and done. Although it has been back in for some adjustments.

Also, on fuel mileage, the dash reading has been known to be off by as much as 5% on individual tanks. Best to always do a pen and paper, or Fuelly, calculation to determine for yourself how much to trust the dash. I find mine to be off 1-2 mpg most of the time.
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Last edited by kjclow; August 21st, 2019 at 06:22.
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Old August 21st, 2019, 14:10   #20
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just a question for clarity. I thought only the 15s had two parts to the fix. My 10 JSW was a one and done. Although it has been back in for some adjustments.

Also, on fuel mileage, the dash reading has been known to be off by as much as 5% on individual tanks. Best to always do a pen and paper, or Fuelly, calculation to determine for yourself how much to trust the dash. I find mine to be off 1-2 mpg most of the time.
just relaying what I had read. It never stated the years. Just stated all tdi's that fell under the emissions recall. Weather. Vw will send out a notice for the replacement or just hope the vehicle will be fine in till warranty expires and only replace them if they fail before warranty ends.. who knows. I will try to get another replacement before my warranty expires though.
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Old August 21st, 2019, 14:12   #21
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Originally Posted by ewdysar View Post
Iíll have to side with turbobrick on this one. Because he raised a point that I have no personal experience, I turned to the interwebs. Of course, all of the companies selling propane injection systems think itís a good idea, along with the magazines that those companies advertise in. Most made no mention of the differences between indirect injection diesels like my GM 6.5L TD Suburban and TDi technology, and there are considerable differences between the two. I did find an article from an aftermarket diesel company that I consider to be reputable. https://official.bankspower.com/tech...ne-the-diesel/
Their initial opinions about the standard propane injection claims sound correct to me, and sound similar to turbobrickís position.

That said, people believe what they believe (confirmation bias) so maybe the only way to truly evaluate the idea is to do an installation and objectively measure the results. Short of that, I would go with whatever reasonably unbiased opinions you can find.

BTW, back in my Honda days, there were lots of go-fast mods that people swore by, that were easily debunked. But even when proven ineffective, the guys that had bought in, still believed.
so my money would be better spent on tune and delete?
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Old August 21st, 2019, 15:03   #22
turbobrick240
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Yes, your money is much better spent on a tune. The delete is a matter of choice. I had one done pre dieselgate and it more or less pushed me into selling the car back rather than get the emissions "fix". I'm also getting too old to have illegally modified cars. Any illegal modifications typically murder the resale value too, if that's a concern.
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Old August 21st, 2019, 15:50   #23
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Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
Yes, your money is much better spent on a tune. The delete is a matter of choice. I had one done pre dieselgate and it more or less pushed me into selling the car back rather than get the emissions "fix". I'm also getting too old to have illegally modified cars. Any illegal modifications typically murder the resale value too, if that's a concern.
I would probably keep the factory exhaust for a just in case scenario. We don't have emissions testing around here. Would a dealership notice a tune in the ecm? My dealership is not a highly rated one. Could always flash back to stock before going in.
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Old August 22nd, 2019, 07:10   #24
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I doubt many of the dealers would ever notice a tune written to the ECM. They may, however, overwrite that tune with a software update. Now removing the exhaust system should be fairly easy to notice.
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Old August 22nd, 2019, 10:47   #25
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I agree with Kj that most dealership service tech's either won't notice or won't care about tuning software being loaded onto the ECU, especially in area's where emissions testing isn't required.

But be careful if you decide to go that route because if you do flash your ECU with a tune it will be indicated/recorded on the ECU that is has been re-tuned/flashed and that could lead VW to deny any and all emissions warranty work. It's similar to preforming work on any new car that would void the warranty because the vehicle's ECU will no longer operate under the values that VW reprogrammed it to, meaning it could lead to running conditions either not seen or anticipated for the motor since it was reprogrammed. Which even though it will make the car run better and usually boost your MPG's, it will open the door to VW potentially saying it will refuse to honor the warranty because the vehicle is no longer in compliance with the conditions of the warranty.

8asically if you're willing to absorb any emissions warranty related costs for the advantage of the tune, you'll be ok since it will all be your responsibility. If you are hoping to make maximum use of the warranty and hold VW responsible for emissions related costs, your safest bet is to NOT tune the vehicle until it is out of it's warranty period.

Another option would be to find an ECU from another identical model, send that to Malone or Kerma for a tune and swap the tuned ECU with he Factory ECU when you need to take the car in for any emission related service. This might prove to be more difficult since you will probably need VCDS at the very least to resolve any issues you might run into when swapping ECU's, but by going this route, even when the dealers plug into your vehicle there won't be any indication you have been running the vehicle with a tune. They will be able to see that the ECU is not original to the car, but that is an easier explanation (the previous one was fried etc.) to a dealer than asking them to ignore your tune, which they are not obligated to do.

I really want to tune and delete but SLC has emissions regulations (damn this smog) I need to abide by and as a current student I do not have enough disposable cash reserves to pay outright or to fix large ticket items myself so I'll let VW pay for any and all repairs until the warranty period expires.

At the end of the day its always interesting to see folks pursue their idea's, continue to evolve the knowledge around the TDI platforms and share their experiences with others. That's why we're all here right?

Last edited by Pharcyde145; August 22nd, 2019 at 10:58.
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Old August 22nd, 2019, 13:17   #26
oilhammer
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Without the dpf. These will blow black. .
That is absolutely not true. No diesel will "blow black" unless it is overfueling or is being starved for air. I very mild tune, especially on a CR, will produce no visible smoke at all. My mild tuned ALH doesn't smoke either.
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Old August 22nd, 2019, 19:22   #27
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That is absolutely not true. No diesel will "blow black" unless it is overfueling or is being starved for air. I very mild tune, especially on a CR, will produce no visible smoke at all. My mild tuned ALH doesn't smoke either.
sorry i should have said can. and most diesels without dpf will blow a puff of black when stepped on. which when tuned well should be the only time any black smoke comes out. Yes they can be tuned to roll coal, but i am not looking for that.
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Old August 22nd, 2019, 19:26   #28
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Originally Posted by Pharcyde145 View Post
I agree with Kj that most dealership service tech's either won't notice or won't care about tuning software being loaded onto the ECU, especially in area's where emissions testing isn't required.

But be careful if you decide to go that route because if you do flash your ECU with a tune it will be indicated/recorded on the ECU that is has been re-tuned/flashed and that could lead VW to deny any and all emissions warranty work. It's similar to preforming work on any new car that would void the warranty because the vehicle's ECU will no longer operate under the values that VW reprogrammed it to, meaning it could lead to running conditions either not seen or anticipated for the motor since it was reprogrammed. Which even though it will make the car run better and usually boost your MPG's, it will open the door to VW potentially saying it will refuse to honor the warranty because the vehicle is no longer in compliance with the conditions of the warranty.

8asically if you're willing to absorb any emissions warranty related costs for the advantage of the tune, you'll be ok since it will all be your responsibility. If you are hoping to make maximum use of the warranty and hold VW responsible for emissions related costs, your safest bet is to NOT tune the vehicle until it is out of it's warranty period.

Another option would be to find an ECU from another identical model, send that to Malone or Kerma for a tune and swap the tuned ECU with he Factory ECU when you need to take the car in for any emission related service. This might prove to be more difficult since you will probably need VCDS at the very least to resolve any issues you might run into when swapping ECU's, but by going this route, even when the dealers plug into your vehicle there won't be any indication you have been running the vehicle with a tune. They will be able to see that the ECU is not original to the car, but that is an easier explanation (the previous one was fried etc.) to a dealer than asking them to ignore your tune, which they are not obligated to do.

I really want to tune and delete but SLC has emissions regulations (damn this smog) I need to abide by and as a current student I do not have enough disposable cash reserves to pay outright or to fix large ticket items myself so I'll let VW pay for any and all repairs until the warranty period expires.

At the end of the day its always interesting to see folks pursue their idea's, continue to evolve the knowledge around the TDI platforms and share their experiences with others. That's why we're all here right?
Does the ecu have to be programmed for the car if i got another one? with the vin.. or will it just plug in and work?
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Old August 22nd, 2019, 21:13   #29
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you'd need an immobilizer delete on the tuned ecu. My feeling is that once you cowboy up for a tune, you accept the responsibility of being your own warranty. At least for the drivetrain components.
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Old August 23rd, 2019, 08:00   #30
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Turbobrick is right, thanks for clarifying! Also great to see you still in the mix after making the transition from Swedespeed.

The ECU that you source from another vehicle will have to be modified via a tune for your car to accept it (if the ECU VIN doesn't match with the info from the CECM still in your vehicle it won't work hence the "immobilizer" function), which is why if you choose to go that route you should keep the ECU that came stock with the car as-is and have the ECU that you sourced elsewhere tuned and the immobilizer deleted and mated to your VIN.
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