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VW Touareg TDIs This is a general discussion about Touareg TDIs. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old March 6th, 2019, 19:41   #1
Matt-98AHU
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Default I now have a V10 money pit, thanks to compudub!

Last May, I did a cross country road trip and stopped by a number of TDIer's houses and family in Michigan. Did a fair bit of work along the way on people's cars to pay for it. One of the stops was to my buddies VeeDubTDI and compu_85's place in Virginia to take a look at the V10 Touareg. They were complaining about a bad vibration under load and had already replaced the driveshaft and even thought at one point maybe it was torque converter shudder and did a fluid service and valve body on it in an attempt to fix the problem to no avail.

I suggested I had been seeing a number of PDs at their age with bad injector seals causing issues now and then. Franko6 relayed to compu_85 that worn cams have been known to do that on V10s as well. It is a 2V/cylinder PD after all...

As usual, Frank was right:





Last fall, they made me an offer I had a hard time refusing to take the Touareg off their hands. So, now it's my expensive problem.

I ordered a set of Colt cams from a company in Canada last fall and FedEx promptly lost them somewhere in New York. I fought it out with them for awhile to get a claim paid, and have so far received a check for only 10% of what I actually paid for the cams... So, I think a trip to small claims will eventually happen, in the meantime, I got too impatient of waiting for that to resolve and got another set of cams on the way.

So, cams have now shown up, and I started to amass the rest of the parts required to do the job and had purchased the absolutely necessary special tools as well. Time to drop the drivetrain:



Pardon the disaster zone that is my shop bay at the moment. Honestly can't remember my last day off not at the shop.



With that done, time for disassembly:



Bank 2 (driver side bank) was definitely far worse. Surprisingly bank 1 is almost completely unworn. Go figure.

Slowly but surely I'm getting it back together, ordering some more parts along the way and finding my crank lock tool was more meant for the Euro 2.5L 5 cylinder than the V10. Came in a kit that had cam locks for both engines (V10 bank 1 uses the same cam lock as the 5 cylinder, bank 2 uses a different lock).

Also while I'm in there, might as well do injector seals too:



Just as it was being loaded on the hauler to come to California, compu noted that it suddenly went into limp mode and stored a turbo related code. When I received it, the code was for turbo control module "defective."

Oh great...

Well, I did replace a pair of turbos on a V10 last year for a customer and noticed that even on his West Coast Touareg (2006--two years newer than this one) one of the turbo's had a rusted external linkage and eventually it popped the E clip off altogether and came disconnected.

The Touareg I just had, both modules were still connected to the linkage. I decided to remove the linkage from the module while everything was still in the truck and found I couldn't move the VNT mechanism easily at all. Having noticed that the turbo control module defective code returned every time I keyed the engine on, I decided to try an experiment. With the VNT linkage between lever and control module unhooked from the control module side (only side you can really reach with the engine still installed) I cleared the codes, keyed it on and off a couple times and noted every time you key it on, the control modules cycle min to max. And if one of them can't go through its full range of motion, it sets the "control module defective" code. But with the VNT linkage completely disconnected from the control module and the module able to go through its full range of motion, the code didn't come back.

So, now with the engine out of the vehicle and I have the ability to better see the linkage and mess with it, it turns out the way it had corroded it wasn't allowing full movement from an external issue, i.e. not sticking vanes inside the turbo.

So, I took the arm off entirely, used one of those small, relatively soft grinding stones in a Dremel kit to clean the corrosion on the inside of the arms, tore a thin strip of sand paper and used it to clear the corrosion off the arms on the control module and VNT mechanism, used some high temp synthetic caliper grease on the joints and reassembled. Slathered some more on the outside too in hopes a future recurrence of this issue is staved off.

Having seen this issue on two V10s now from opposite sides of the country, I'm beginning to think the "fragile turbos" rumor about the V10s is mostly bullcrap. I think if whoever services these trucks takes the chance everytime they're under one of these to try and dab a little grease around these joints, it could stave off the corrosion on the VNT linkage that eventually causes various codes and limp mode. At least that's my theory. So, instead of replacing turbos now, despite the job being massive to remove and reinstall one of these monsters, I'm tempted to see just how long I can get the stock turbos to last on one of these with just that little bit of preventative maintenance.

Anyway, back to it. I've got plenty of work to do after the 'Reg is back moving under its own power. But I can't wait until it's done, I've driven it, got readiness monitors to set and then get it titled and registered in my name finally. Really neat truck.
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Last edited by Matt-98AHU; March 6th, 2019 at 19:46.
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Old March 7th, 2019, 03:42   #2
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Nice job Matt!

My friend and mentor recently traded his 2010 V8 T'reg in for a Tiguan (poor sap). His $65k money fire ended in a $4500 trade in value, then to find out through another dealer friend it was wholesaled off at Manheim for $3200! It is shocking how cheap you can pick these things up now.

But at least yours has the novelty cool factor of the V10 TDI, which is just too neat of an engine not to try and save and bring back to life.

I have had several chances to pick up cheap first gen T'reg VR6 with chucked chains, but have resisted because there is just no market for them. The V10 will probably enjoy some niche following for a long time to come. And they make a neat sound, too.
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Old March 7th, 2019, 05:26   #3
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Glad to see this truck in good hands.

If I has the time / space I would have loved to tear into this, but I just don't right now. And I know if we'd have tried to trade it in, it would have gone on to a flatter place.

PS: We never replaced the driveshaft. We did have all the motor mounts replaced trying to cure the vibration. The PO had replaced the driveshaft 3 times over the course of the trucks life due to the carrier bearing bushing going bad.

-J
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Old March 7th, 2019, 08:47   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
Glad to see this truck in good hands.

If I has the time / space I would have loved to tear into this, but I just don't right now. And I know if we'd have tried to trade it in, it would have gone on to a flatter place.

PS: We never replaced the driveshaft. We did have all the motor mounts replaced trying to cure the vibration. The PO had replaced the driveshaft 3 times over the course of the trucks life due to the carrier bearing bushing going bad.

-J
Ah, good to know. The driveshaft center diff bearing does still look good. I do have an interesting aftermarket axle I got my hands on I can swap to should this one go bad. It gets rid of the center diff bearing altogether.

CV joint on the back just like OE (which also allows a little slip) but U joint up front where the flex disk is. This also means the middle slip joint is gone completely. Makes enough sense to me, in theory these should need minimal axle shaft length change anyway since both drivetrain and rear diff are fixed. Will be interesting to try should (or when) the current driveshaft have the middle slip joint go bad and tear up another center support bushing.

OH: I still see some V10s pop up on the local Craigslist here for somewhere around $10k and they don't seem to stay long. The one that has stuck around for awhile was a 2006 the owner was asking $16k for. Was very low miles (70k and change or so) and looked in great shape, though. Nice color combo, too.

This will be a truck to take on trips into the mountains as well as tow/haul stuff... and just weekend duty in general. Will still have an older 4 pot TDI for daily duties. Couldn't rely on this as a DD, that's for sure. Wouldn't want to pay that fuel bill all the time, either!
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Old March 7th, 2019, 09:49   #5
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Saw your pics on Facebook the other day, is that really the harmonic balancer? It's the size of a normal flywheel!!!
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Old March 7th, 2019, 18:04   #6
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Interesting observation that the driver's side camshaft lobes wore far differently from the R bank. That fact lends support to the theory that the camshaft wear issue is primarily a process control problem during the original manufacture. The rating/quality of the oil has been taking the heat for a long time now (and it may still have SOME effect) but it is very obvious that these two camshafts and their lifters saw IDENTICAL oil and identical service conditions during their lifetime. It is probably an issue with the camshafts and NOT the lifters because it is hard to see how most of the lifters for the L bank would have been processed during their manufacture any differently from the lifters that ended up on the R side.
It is very easy to visualize how a batch of camshafts for the R side got made and processed on a different day, under different conditions (and perhaps at a different plant) then those for the L side.
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Old March 8th, 2019, 03:58   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourdiesel View Post
Interesting observation that the driver's side camshaft lobes wore far differently from the R bank. That fact lends support to the theory that the camshaft wear issue is primarily a process control problem during the original manufacture. The rating/quality of the oil has been taking the heat for a long time now (and it may still have SOME effect) but it is very obvious that these two camshafts and their lifters saw IDENTICAL oil and identical service conditions during their lifetime. It is probably an issue with the camshafts and NOT the lifters because it is hard to see how most of the lifters for the L bank would have been processed during their manufacture any differently from the lifters that ended up on the R side.
It is very easy to visualize how a batch of camshafts for the R side got made and processed on a different day, under different conditions (and perhaps at a different plant) then those for the L side.

This is no different than how one lobe/lifter on one cam can be completely wiped out, yet all the rest are perfectly fine.

I just did a BEW with 190k miles, NOT maintained by me until recently, that had a solid measured 3mm worn off the #2 intake lobe, with another 2mm worn in that lifter. The other lobes as checked with a micrometer against a new cam had essentially zero wear, and the lifters (I do not have a good tiny dial indicator to measure these) had no visible wear on any of them.

It certainly remains a mystery.
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Old March 9th, 2019, 18:14   #8
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I had purchased an aftermarket special tool kit, which was largely just fine for the cam gear clamps and cam lock down, but the crank lock was definitely not right for the V10. Had to special order the OE version--or more accurately I found someone who was charging double what VW normally does on eBay and was willing to overnight it... VW doesn't have it in stock on tools.vw.com anyway...

USPS dropped the ball and my overnight delivery turned into 2 days. Could be worse I guess.

Got it all lined up, just like doing a TDI timing belt, the cam gears themselves are NOT keyed to the cams. And it's not even a cone seat. There's a special disk that grips the hub on the end of the cam and the gear sandwiches into that as well. There's one large bolt that ties fuel pump drive, cam gear and camshaft together and it's torqued in 3 stages. It's very tight.

Bank 2 (driver's side) does NOT have a cam sensor. It wasn't too bad to do, especially since the special tool that holds the gear in place just rests on the head to counterhold any tightening or loosening forces on that bolt. Pretty slick.

Bank 1 on the other hand wasn't so easy. Both sides you are removing not only the cam gear but also effectively the "compensation gear" as well. There are these large brass bushings for both the end of the cam and where the very end of the head where the fuel pump drive is that also act as pivots for two large arms for the compensation gear. These have to be loosened and removed to get the cam gear and camshaft out. At least for removing the cam gear on bank 2 the arms can stay in place for that step, but the bushing and arm on the cam side do need to be removed to pull the camshaft out.

On bank 1, the gear and the transmission/fuel pump side bushing and arm have to come out WITH the gear because there is inadequate clearance to only pull one at a time. This made reinstalling even trickier. The reason for this is because the cam gear for bank 1 contains the tone wheel for the cam sensor. The only cam sensor in the entire engine... only bank 1 has it.

Even more fun? There's a little notch mark on the tone wheel that is supposed to line up flush with the bottom of the head when you got it in there right. But the arm and bushing for the compensating gear, which you can only install at the same time as the cam gear, blocks your view of this hash mark. So, I had to make an etching that extends that mark to where I could actually see it with the bushing and arm in place.

So, that's where the real fun begins, trying to line up the 4 arms for the compensating gear and the compensating gear itself while also installing the cam gear with one of those 4 arms and its bushing that sits under a cam cap while also making sure the cam gear itself is going to line up correctly when it's all said and done...

Yeah, that took a lot of retries. Either I'd get it all in place only to find the cam gear wasn't lined up right or as I'm trying to maneuver the one compensating gear arm and the cam gear in, one of the other 3 arms would move to where you can't rotate it back without removing everything all over again... So that was fun.

Plus, when you do finally get everything lined up and you have the hub for the arms and compensation gear installed and you've now got the bolt that holds the pump drive, cam gear and cam together run in, the nice special tool for bank 2 that counterholds the gear for you against the head doesn't fit bank 1 due to the tight clearance between tone wheel and gear. There's another special counterhold tool, but it does require you to hold a 1/2" large ratchet or breaker bar into it while you torque the bolt to high heaven. Just one of those jobs that feels like you need 2 more arms, you know?

Other than that, the rest of the job is just nuts and bolts. It's a lot of steps and very time consuming, but beyond that nothing that made me really frustrated.... Other than today where I was prepping the engine to go back in and had to drill and tap out a tiny bolt that holds up bank 1's turbo inlet piping... and then broke a tap.

Anywho, it looks like I pretty much have it ready to get bolted back in. Going to save that for tomorrow.
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Old March 11th, 2019, 21:55   #9
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Engine back in and running, lifters have now quieted down after a little break-in.

Blew some smoke out the first couple times putting my boot to it, that's cleared up nicely now. No more shudder under acceleration like we experienced last May.

The one odd thing I had to take a little extra time with today was figuring out glow plug and glow plug module codes.

I started looking at diagrams and prodding around the glow plug relays for voltage and ground where it's supposed to be. The main power, not switched/straight from the battery only read 6V. Only took a couple minutes to figure out that the reason why is because that circuit is powered by the second battery under the spare tire. New dealer sourced AGM replacement installed, cleared codes and all seems happy.

Drove it home and so far so good. Feels like it could maybe use a little injector cleaner. Doesn't quite feel like it has full grunt yet, but it's no slouch either.

I had deegingerkid look at a little data using OBDEleven as my scan tool to see boost and MAF while I drove. Sounds like bank 1's MAF might be underreporting a hair, but overall, it's close. Boost control looks great.

Only comprehensive components for readiness hasn't set yet, hoping it will after another drive cycle from a cold start tomorrow will do it, then I can smog it and go to the DMV.
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Old March 12th, 2019, 05:52   #10
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How many miles are on this Treg?
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Old March 12th, 2019, 07:19   #11
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Good stuff Matt! Now I can go buy one and bring it to you with confidence

Seriously. If you see a decent one or have someone try to sell you one, let me know!
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Old March 12th, 2019, 09:03   #12
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How many miles are on this Treg?
About 165k.

-J
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Old March 12th, 2019, 09:29   #13
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Passing the torch! Don't burn yourself.

I'm glad you got the engine repaired and back together. It's great to see you working through the issues and learning all of the ins and outs of this monster. Hopefully your expertise will end up keeping some more V10s on the road instead of ending up in the junk pile.

Have fun ripping up the mountains!
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Old March 12th, 2019, 09:32   #14
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Interesting data point: it's my understanding that the truck was run on 5w-40 synthetic (Mobil TDT or equivalent) for its entire life.
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Old March 12th, 2019, 10:16   #15
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Yup, until I started using Mobil 1 5w40 when we got it at ~120k
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