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Audi A3 Discussions area for Audi A3 TDI (2010+ in Canada & the US).

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Old July 23rd, 2012, 19:27   #1
kgall
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Default Dealer uses 5w-30 instead of 5w-40--should I care?

Went to the Audi dealer for the first service, at 5K miles today.
The dealer put in 5w-30 oil, and sold me an extra quart of 5w-30 oil--I didn't notice until I had driven away. The oil meets VW 507.00

The Owner's Manual gives 5w-40 as the preferred oil and 5w-30 or 0w-40 as acceptable alternatives.

One thing you might want to know: I live in Arkansas, where it threatens to be over 100 degrees much of the next month or so--as it has been for the past month.

So my questions are: does anyone think this will make a difference? Any idea why the dealer would not use the preferred oil in the owners manual?
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 19:56   #2
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My understanding is that VW 507.00 oils are all Xw30 regardless of what the owner's manual says.

The common-rail engines (yours) use roller cam followers, unlike the flat-tappet followers of the older engines. It's fine.
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 20:01   #3
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I've not seen a VW507 oil that isn't a 5W30.
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 20:19   #4
kgall
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Thanks. That's very odd, that the Owner's Manual does not match the real world, in something as basic to cars as oil.

BTW, GF, I've seen references to "common rail engines", but I don't know what that means. I also don't know what "roller cam" followers, "flat tappet" followers, or followers in general are, and why they have anything to do with engine oil. I'd be interested in learning.
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 20:33   #5
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common rail= the high pressure fuel is instantly available in a manifold at all the injectors. Injectors are fired by the ecu.

The follower sits on top of the valve stem and spring and transmits the downward force of the cam lobe down against the valve stem and spring. Roller cams are used on your camshaft instead of a cam lobe dragging across the follower in order to actuate the intake or exhaust valves. This greatly reduces the stress that the oil is under at that point compared to the previous tdi's which used flat tappet followers. That was the main reason why 5W40 wt oil was preferred for earlier tdi designs- especially in the PD engine where the unit injector lobes for each cylinder took up real estate on the cam and the cam lobes actuating the valves were reduced in size and thereby increased the stress the cam lobes and followers were under.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 04:03   #6
maroonfrog1
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Default My dealer's choice

Both times I've had my 2011 A3 TDI in for scheduled service (15k and 25k miles). I checked into the oil they use, and both times it has been Castrol SLX 5W30 Gold. It meets the VW 507.00 oil specification and is fine for 10k oil change intervals. That 507 spec is the most important requirement for anyone changing your oil. Compared to the universe of passenger car motor oils around, the VW 507 spec is tight enough that there aren't a lot of manufacturers meeting that spec.

I was just in Arkansas driving through 109-degree heat ... but the fact is, the ambient temp outside makes almost no difference once it's above 80 degrees F as to the operating temp of your engine oil while you're driving at roadway speeds.

I read somehwere that the reason that VW / Audi still list 5W40 as the preferred viscosity is the high speeds that European drivers can run for long periods on their highways compared to the U.S. (over 100mph for hours, as opposed to over 70mph for hours).


Quote:
Originally Posted by kgall View Post
Went to the Audi dealer for the first service, at 5K miles today.
The dealer put in 5w-30 oil, and sold me an extra quart of 5w-30 oil--I didn't notice until I had driven away. The oil meets VW 507.00

The Owner's Manual gives 5w-40 as the preferred oil and 5w-30 or 0w-40 as acceptable alternatives.

One thing you might want to know: I live in Arkansas, where it threatens to be over 100 degrees much of the next month or so--as it has been for the past month.

So my questions are: does anyone think this will make a difference? Any idea why the dealer would not use the preferred oil in the owners manual?
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Old July 24th, 2012, 06:23   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonfrog1 View Post
....I was just in Arkansas driving through 109-degree heat ... but the fact is, the ambient temp outside makes almost no difference once it's above 80 degrees F as to the operating temp of your engine oil while you're driving at roadway speeds.
...
Do you have data that supports this like oil temperature vs ambient? especially for the TDI.

Last edited by Plus 3 Golfer; July 24th, 2012 at 08:21.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 07:50   #8
CRdeesl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tditom View Post
common rail= the high pressure fuel is instantly available in a manifold at all the injectors. Injectors are fired by the ecu.

The follower sits on top of the valve stem and spring and transmits the downward force of the cam lobe down against the valve stem and spring. Roller cams are used on your camshaft instead of a cam lobe dragging across the follower in order to actuate the intake or exhaust valves. This greatly reduces the stress that the oil is under at that point compared to the previous tdi's which used flat tappet followers. That was the main reason why 5W40 wt oil was preferred for earlier tdi designs- especially in the PD engine where the unit injector lobes for each cylinder took up real estate on the cam and the cam lobes actuating the valves were reduced in size and thereby increased the stress the cam lobes and followers were under.
i like gettin learned on tdiclub

...Now i need a shirt with that quote along with "and all i got was this lousy t-shirt" lol
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Old July 24th, 2012, 08:11   #9
kgall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tditom View Post
common rail= the high pressure fuel is instantly available in a manifold at all the injectors. Injectors are fired by the ecu.

The follower sits on top of the valve stem and spring and transmits the downward force of the cam lobe down against the valve stem and spring. Roller cams are used on your camshaft instead of a cam lobe dragging across the follower in order to actuate the intake or exhaust valves. This greatly reduces the stress that the oil is under at that point compared to the previous tdi's which used flat tappet followers. That was the main reason why 5W40 wt oil was preferred for earlier tdi designs- especially in the PD engine where the unit injector lobes for each cylinder took up real estate on the cam and the cam lobes actuating the valves were reduced in size and thereby increased the stress the cam lobes and followers were under.
Thanks! Now I gotta find some pictures, so I can visualize this better.
I agree with CRdeesl.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 08:18   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonfrog1 View Post
Both times I've had my 2011 A3 TDI in for scheduled service (15k and 25k miles). I checked into the oil they use, and both times it has been Castrol SLX 5W30 Gold. It meets the VW 507.00 oil specification and is fine for 10k oil change intervals. That 507 spec is the most important requirement for anyone changing your oil. Compared to the universe of passenger car motor oils around, the VW 507 spec is tight enough that there aren't a lot of manufacturers meeting that spec.

I was just in Arkansas driving through 109-degree heat ... but the fact is, the ambient temp outside makes almost no difference once it's above 80 degrees F as to the operating temp of your engine oil while you're driving at roadway speeds.

I read somehwere that the reason that VW / Audi still list 5W40 as the preferred viscosity is the high speeds that European drivers can run for long periods on their highways compared to the U.S. (over 100mph for hours, as opposed to over 70mph for hours).
Yep. 109 is a bit higher than the average its been here, but I've seen temperatures up to 112 on my car thermometer and 118 on a home thermometer (but that was on the west side of the house in the afternoon sun, so it was bound to read high).
Your explanation for 5W-40 makes sense. Are there any European drivers here to confirm it?
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Old August 6th, 2012, 14:11   #11
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Actually, I believe the manual has 5W-40 as approved for all temp ranges. It then goes on to say that your temp range will determine whether or not you should typically use the 30 or 40. Usually the 30 is for mild (warm temp) and 40 if you are going in and out (variable temp range) of hot/cold temps.

Both are supported by the owners manual.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 14:14   #12
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However, there are no 5w40 oils that meet 507 approval....go figure.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 09:25   #13
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Default VAG List from tech service Bulletin

17 11 16 2010043/11 June 6, 2011. Supersedes Technical Service Bulletin Group 17 number 10 – 08 dated June
18, 2010 for reasons listed below.
Model(s) Year VIN Range Vehicle-Specific Equipment
All 1997 – 2012 All Not Applicable



I edited for easier post reading. See page 7 and 8 and 10 page attachment for 504, 507 VAG approved oils. ( I added the "10 attachment" to this post due to leaving it off the first time, 08/16/12)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93860450/A...-2012-Oil-Data

http://microsites.audiusa.com/ngw/09..._1997-2012.pdf

Last edited by TL A3; August 16th, 2012 at 10:42.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 09:28   #14
WutGas?
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I don't know what that post is for, but again, there are NO 5w-40 oils that are 507 approved.
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Old August 16th, 2012, 07:51   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.J.K. View Post
I don't know what that post is for, but again, there are NO 5w-40 oils that are 507 approved.
I posted it because Technical Service Bulletins (TSB) are issued by the manufacturers covering corrective procedures to potential issues, and vehicle maintenance updates.
That particular one covers the specific oils that "meet VW 504/507 standards" called for in the owners manual for newer cars (or what ever you car has listed based on model year).
I believe the confusion is when one cannot find a oil container that says 5w40 504/507 written on it. All oils in that TSB meet the VAG requirement of "conforming to VW standards". That is different than an oil producer having an auto manufacturers permission to stamp their product with a claim of "approved by XYZ" on it.
That is VW position, not mine, based on emails that I have sent to them on this specific issue; I would imagine that it is feedback from consumers, and dealership service dept's that more than likely caused them to issue the TSB.
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