turbo upgrade for A3?

greenskeeper

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I am thinking of upgrading the turbo in my A3. I already have PP764s and an aligator chip as well as a straight pipe exhaust.

What turbo would be the best application for my car?

I'd assume I could get the chip reburned for the new turbo and to take advantage of the large nozzles I already have in there?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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I think a VNT-15 or 17 is the best way to go. MrChill has a 17/22 in his A3. You need to modify the rear engine mount and of course there's some plumbing to change, along with a re-flash, but for serious power and driveability I think it's the best approach.

I want to put a VNT-15 in my A3 at some point, but I'm honestly enjoying it with the PP357s and the stock turbo right now.
 

Matt-98AHU

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The best bolt-on solution is probably the K03/04 hybrid turbo. Spool-up time is very similar and it can safely handle more boost.

A VNT would be ideal, but there's a lot more work involved in making it work. You need to modify the rear engine mount to clear the VNT actuator, as Peter pointed out. You also need an N75 that operates off vacuum rather than controlling intake air pressure to the wastegate actuator, which means some software tweaks are also required (call Jeff!)

The VNT flows better, the exhaust manifold design is much better flowing. If you've ever seen the 1Z/AHU exhaust manifold up close, you probably realize it's fairly restrictive.

However, I do have a K03/04 hybrid turbo on my car and have been pretty happy with it. The car does pull reasonably well beyond 4000 RPM, not quite as well as a modified ALH, but it holds its own. If you're looking for a simple, bolt-on upgrade, it is hard to beat.

Give BleachedBora a call, he'll hook ya up :)
 

mrchill

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If you are going to keep th car, I'd consider an upgrade to vnt. ITs so much nicer. By nicer, I mean that the car is smoother, more powerful and much more linear in power delivery. MY Mk3's and B4's are already smooth and powerful. A joy to drive. But the vnt unlocks the potential of the AHU\1Z engines. WIthout all that restriction, the engine can make more power easier...and I suspect the mileage will improve. I am not sure yet, since I am still enjoying the power:D. The exhust and intake restrictions are the lions share of the difference twixt the early and late engines. The programming and pump is the rest. I am now graphing my changes so as to make some of this info available.
 

jackbombay

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Matt-98AHU said:
which means some software tweaks are also required (call Jeff!)
I'm pretty sure Aligator swapped vnts into A3s before anyone this side of the pond, and since the OP already has an Aligator tune it would be far cheaper to just have Ali retune his car...
 

kooyajerms

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Matt from your experience. What's your seat of the pants dyno you get from moving up to the k03/k04? I get mixed answers on if it's really that great of an upgrade (vs stock).
 

greenskeeper

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I think I'd probably stay with a fixed vane turbo ala K03/04 hybrid. Not a big fan of the VNT but I do understand the "advantages" mentioned above.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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jackbombay said:
I'm pretty sure Aligator swapped vnts into A3s before anyone this side of the pond, and since the OP already has an Aligator tune it would be far cheaper to just have Ali retune his car...
In fact, a different VNT-15 was in the 110 HP A3 in Europe. Nice setup. I looked into getting those turbos here, but many parts of the 110 HP car are different--manifolds, exhaust, etc.

The GT-15 works well in part in the A3 because it's so tiny. I need to put my new clutch in before I can dyno again, but I estimate I'm making about 120/240, which is about as far as you can go smoke-free with the stock turbo. A bigger wastegate turbo will give you slower spool-up: lag. That's where the 15 or the hybrid are so nice.

If you want to stick with a wastegate turbo another option is to look for a ball bearing turbo. 034 motorsport has some, but I think their smallest one is probably bigger than you want.
 

jackbombay

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I have one of BB's Ko3/Ko4 hybrids and it is externally the same as a ko3, but it is almost a couple years old now, I'm not sure if he is offering a different one at this time.
 

greenskeeper

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jackbombay said:
I have one of BB's Ko3/Ko4 hybrids and it is externally the same as a ko3, but it is almost a couple years old now, I'm not sure if he is offering a different one at this time.
How has your experience been with this turbo compared to stock? Do you have any other mods?

I have PP764s and straight exhaust, thinking a new turbo could get the full potential of the PP764s since I am turbo limited right now I'd assume.
 

jackbombay

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Its actually installed in a westfalia vanagon, the engine is otherwise stock. Since the TDI is pushing around a HEAVY brick the boost hovers around 12 PSI at 60-65 MPH, a lot of work for the stock turbo, the hybrid should be spinning slower and heating the air less than the stock turbo. With stock tuning and injectors the hybrid does spool a bit slower. But I also have no exhaust system, well there is a 18" long pipe attached to the turbo, it sounds so rad.
 

greenskeeper

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But I also have no exhaust system, well there is a 18" long pipe attached to the turbo, it sounds so rad.
Wish I could get away with that!

Anybody have experiences with a turbo upgrade in the A3?

Right now the stock turbo is holding up just fine with my Aligator tune peaking at 18psi. I think I could get more out of the PP764s with more air (psi) over stock. This is evident in that I have minimal smoke at WOT from my tune...dialed back probably to save the turbo! I have heard how smokey PP764s are supposed to be with my setup but not the case.
 
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jackbombay

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stealthtdi has a hybrid turbo in his A3, I haven't seen any posts from him lately, but he probably has details on his website, or you could PM/email him.
 

onlyn8v

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Im running the hybrid k03/04 turbo in my car and its a tiny bit better than stock. I really havent floored through all the gears yet (only about 700 miles on swap) but Im so smokey when its floored its hard to find a place to do it without attracting attention.

The tune needs some tweaking- too much fuel Im contacting Jeff today to see what can be done.

 

mojogoes

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Onlyn8v............at the moment it only!! feels like its a "tiny" improvemnet which is very clearly down to your tune at this moment in time......but i recon your mind will be changed once you have the map optimised from Jeff..........by your discription it sounds that the excessive fueling is retarding spoolup time , what is it like on the high way @ 70mph and then you give it some....does it still smoke quite a bit before clearing?.........nice! motor by the way.
 

Spulen81

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I think the K03/K04 is the only bolt on upgrade available right now. Not that its bad but I wish there was something a little bigger available. I wanted something more so I'm trying out a Garrett GT2052. I just swapped it into this car and the engine is still being broken so I don't have much to say about it yet other than it is very responsive. I had to build the turbo manifold, downpipe and oil lines myself though so its not an easy one to do.
 

mojogoes

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I also used a T25 hybrid with a s/s tubular header but a i guess you could use an adapter plate to attach it aswell........i achieved close to 200hp with this turbo and r520 11mm i believe Fez on this forum has gone down this route although he's waiting for a certain ip to become available.
 
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Fez

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mojogoes said:
I also used a T25 hybrid with a s/s tubular header but a i guess you could use an adapter plate to attach it aswell........i achieved close to 200hp with this turbo and r520 11mm i believe Fez on this forum has gone down this route although he's waiting for a certain ip to become available.
:rolleyes: im a patient guy

can't wait to have it m8 :D

Hows the rebuild?
 

onlyn8v

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mojogoes said:
Onlyn8v............at the moment it only!! feels like its a "tiny" improvemnet which is very clearly down to your tune at this moment in time......but i recon your mind will be changed once you have the map optimised from Jeff..........by your discription it sounds that the excessive fueling is retarding spoolup time , what is it like on the high way @ 70mph and then you give it some....does it still smoke quite a bit before clearing?.........nice! motor by the way.
When Jeff did the new chip he did it for all my mods including the new turbo. I am still running the stock exhaust so Im sure thats a main holdback. I have a stainless 2.5 magnaflow here that I may throw on until I can do 3". Right now anytime I step on it- it smokes hard, but I usually let off because Im trying to keep some fuel. I know it is dumping too much fuel because the mileage is something like 300 to a 1/2 tank.
 

mojogoes

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300 miles to half a tank....i don't know about the US/A3 version but my Euro version was only reported to do 600mile to a full tank max possibly more if you drive backwards sloooooowly...lol.

8v its seems that your map is some way off from being optimised........i remember doing/having quite a few maps/chips done in the same way your receiving your software / new programing as to be fair on Jeff unless you have the car in your hands its alway going to be a guesstimate......having said that he / you will get there it only takes that little bit longer thats all.

P.S......8v what type of boost control/controller are you using and boost pressure or is it all controlled via chip plus what is the max boost pressure that you know your turbo can produce steady-state!
 
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greenskeeper

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sounds like I should hold off until the stock turbo bites the dust since the "upgrade" isn't all that promising (at least from what I've seen in this thread).
 

mojogoes

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^^^ It depends mainly upon how much your budget is and how much more power your after........if the budgets big enough you can quite easily reach 200hp+
 

kooyajerms

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mojogoes said:
^^^ It depends mainly upon how much your budget is and how much more power your after........if the budgets big enough you can quite easily reach 200hp+
I believe the question is "due to the turbo or despite it?"
 

mojogoes

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kooyajerms said:
I believe the question is "due to the turbo or despite it?"

NO you see your statement would suggest the turbo being the limiting factor where mine would suggest "the skies the limit"!!
 

mrchill

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I think much of our NA "smoke" is due to poor cetane diesel. Because even when my car is smokey under hard throttle, I still retain good mileage. And with the vnt setup I have on my Mk3 now, there is so little smoke, you have to look for it. A low speed and rpm, if you stand on it, it will smoke just a bit and then its gone. At speed, it will haze...but not a lot. If I had aftertreatment, it would be clear all the time. If the numbers are not too high for you, I'd consider a vnt conversion.
 

12MPGHWY

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What would be the best VNT turbo to put on an A3 in terms of cost/power and longevity?

If going through all the cost and hassle of doing a custom turbo, which I am considering, than I would like to get the best possible unit. I am willing to make a custom tube manifold.

I am in essentially the same boat as the original poster, already have chip, nozzles, exhaust work, good running on stock turbo etc.

Would it be something like a GT2056V?
 
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kooyajerms

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Ruben has this turbo that looks to be perfect for us.
GT18V from an Opel and some other car.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=232430

12MPGHWY said:
What would be the best VNT turbo to put on an A3 in terms of cost/power and longevity?

If going through all the cost and hassle of doing a custom turbo, which I am considering, than I would like to get the best possible unit. I am willing to make a custom tube manifold.

I am in essentially the same boat as the original poster, already have chip, nozzles, exhaust work, good running on stock turbo etc.

Would it be something like a GT2056V?
 
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