Is it worth Owning a TDI anymore?

oilhammer said:

You simply have not had the car long enough to warrant that comment.

Click to expand...

Ditto. Say that after you have replaced a DMF, the EGR, a turbo because your actuator isn't working, and your camshaft and lifters, and had the injectors cleaned and rebalanced with new nozzles, and then lord forbid your car is totaled shortly afterwards. It will rapidly make the cost of owning a TDI shoot far higher.

I know OBDII just fine. That whole thing was about me saying a person could use a reg cheap scanner to pull most codes while you couldn't understand that for some reason... VAGCOM, VAGCOM, VAGCOM was all that was in your thick skull.

I think it's more that whatever your opinion is has to be correct and no one else's could possibly be.

I can say water is wet, fire is hot and the sun is bright and you'd find a way to disprove it.

oilhammer said:

You simply have not had the car long enough to warrant that comment. 5 years from now you will see differently. Your join date of less than 1 year ago gives you away. Don't get me wrong, I wish you the best, I really do. But your reluctance to understand your car's OBD system in prior threads sets the stage for someone that may not be as in love with the car in the future.

Click to expand...

Bought the car 24 Jun 2010, but only have driven it about 5 months of that because I was gone for a couple months and also I had it parked for a while when I was doing some work on it. Had 82k when I bought it and it's got 96k now.

Jnitrofish said:

Ditto. Say that after you have replaced a DMF, the EGR, a turbo because your actuator isn't working, and your camshaft and lifters, and had the injectors cleaned and rebalanced with new nozzles, and then lord forbid your car is totaled shortly afterwards. It will rapidly make the cost of owning a TDI shoot far higher.

Click to expand...

LOL, there is no "disproving" anything, you simply do not understand your car's OBD system is all. Don't get mad at me, I understand it perfectly fine, you just refused to listen to my (or anyone else's) help.

Then you got mad again about your CCM (because, again, you do not understand your car's OBD system, and refuse to get the CHEAP tool to allow you to).

You've put 14k miles on it in less than a year. This qualifies what now? And how many threads have you started about problems you've had with it? 15? 20?

nate379 said:

Bought the car 24 Jun 2010, but only have driven it about 5 months of that because I was gone for a couple months and also I had it parked for a while when I was doing some work on it.

Click to expand...

You've got a lot to look forward to then. I wish you the best of luck with it, 'cause it pretty much comes down to dumb luck.

Just was making the point that while I have not had it for long, I have put a decent amount of miles on it.

Off the top of my head, only problem I had that wasn't caused by previous owner or me was an worn O ring on intercooler tubing causing a boost leak/low power.

oilhammer said:

You've put 14k miles on it in less than a year. This qualifies what now? And how many threads have you started about problems you've had with it?

Click to expand...

14,000 miles is peanuts. And you have started a BOATLOAD of threads about problems with your car, but we can overlook the one you started about that pesky Metric system you have issues with.

You like your car, I like mine, too. But I'm not going to brag about how "cheap" they are to operate because it simply is not true.

I've been lucky thus far. I purchased this car well knowing what was the norm for needing repair. Camshaft, flywheel, egrcooler, vnt actuator and drivers door harness. I also purchased this car CPO with extended warranty, have had the flywheel and camshaft repaired via warranty. I haven't had to spend a dime on repairs yet. That being said even if I were to have to pay for the parts for the flywheel and camshaft/timing belt, I'd be out about $1600 in parts. I've calculated that to be about 4¢ a mile that I would have spent for the 40,000 miles I've put on this car or 2.3¢ for the 70,000 miles the car has on it. This tdi saves me roughly $200-$300 a month in fuel. That's roughly $4800 (thats on the low end) it's saved me so far since I've owned it! Maintenance is maintenance it has to be done no matter what the car is or who makes it. So in my case this car has been well worth owning and there isn't one person that can prove me wrong. Now I can't say what the future will bring, the trans may take a $hit and I'll be out all that money. But I doubt that will happen. My scenario doesn't seem to be the norm here, it seems plenty of people jump into a tdi without even researching the car. They just expect them all to be good cars, which many are not. I also chose my '06.5 VS the '09 even tho I would have gotten the full tax credit. That was a tough decision but ultimately I'm glad I made the decision I did, can you say HPFP? Lol. Even with the 80,000 mile maintenance and replacing the cam then I'm out about $1400(less than 2¢ a mile) I'm a happy PD owner!

But what you spent on the purchase price of the car was not "cheap". Even used, these cars are pricier than many others. You can buy a used Civic for thousands less, and still snap off 38+ MPG with ease using cheap RUG and never have to worry about a DMF, an EGR cooler, etc. and it won't care what oil you use and a genuine Honda oil filter is only 6 bucks. Yes, it is a crackerbox, but it IS cheap!

This is where TDI ownership gets interesting. The one single question that makes the most sense is, would you buy the same car with the gas engine? If your answer is no, then the TDI is probably not suited for you for the long run. Because the love affair with good fuel economy will soon be trumped by the general needs of a German car.

Now if you WOULD buy the same car with the gas engine, then you will probably be happy. Because you obviously see something more in the car. The looks, the ride, the build quality, the handling, whatever. But just buying one "to save money" is bogus, because the numbers simply don't add up.

That is very true! I spent $17,000 or $18,000 on this car two years ago and at the time it was in service for just two years. I certainly could have purchased a used Civic comparable options wise for about $4000 less.

Edit: I see where your coming from now! I would only be getting roughly 5 MPG less with the Civic and with the difference in RUG and diesel prices I'd be about even in cost per mile. Plus the cost of the vehicle would be cheaper along with the cost to maintain it. That almost makes me think I bought the wrong car. NAH, I likes my TDi! I also don't think I would have bought it in a gasser version though.

oilhammer said:

But what you spent on the purchase price of the car was not "cheap". Even used, these cars are pricier than many others. You can buy a used Civic for thousands less, and still snap off 38+ MPG with ease using cheap RUG and never have to worry about a DMF, an EGR cooler, etc. and it won't care what oil you use and a genuine Honda oil filter is only 6 bucks. Yes, it is a crackerbox, but it IS cheap!

This is where TDI ownership gets interesting. The one single question that makes the most sense is, would you buy the same car with the gas engine? If your answer is no, then the TDI is probably not suited for you for the long run. Because the love affair with good fuel economy will soon be trumped by the general needs of a German car.

Now if you WOULD buy the same car with the gas engine, then you will probably be happy. Because you obviously see something more in the car. The looks, the ride, the build quality, the handling, whatever. But just buying one "to save money" is bogus, because the numbers simply don't add up.

Click to expand...

I like my 2000 Jetta TDI. When I bought it new in 2001 diesel was about $.10 cheaper than regular. I even bought some in Florida for less than a dollar a gallon. At the time the car was about 500 pounds heavier than its compareables. i.e not a "crackerbox" I have about 281,000 miles on it. The most expensive thing you can do to a car is replace it.

I'd never buy a Jetta with a gas engine. ONLY reason I bought it was for the TDI.
If I could, I'd have diesels in all my vehicles... whether or not it makes sense $$ wise.

Today gas at the pump is $4.06 and diesel is $4.34.

If a Civic can get 38mpg and the Jetta 45mpg, it's a wash as far as fuel cost.

SoTxBill said:

when gas was a dollar, diesel was $1.10. when gas was $2, diesel was $2.20.
when gas was $3, diesel was $3.30, Now that gas is $4.00 I am buying diesel for $4.34 is I shop a bit and usually much cheaper on both. I have two vw's now. both are dsg... I get 38 mpg city and between 38 and 53 on the highway,, but usually its 43.7 mpg.

timing belts used to be due a 90k,, now they are 120k.

dpf... we have to see about..

mantanance?? its free up to 40k now as opposed to having to pay earlier..

newer jettas starting a $15k now...

so bottom line...

quit crying. gets your facts right and go buy a prius as your too dumb to drive a vw. other than the dpf.. you have been wrong about everything. on the dpf,, we need to see what happens... but no, my vw's have gotten better not worse.

Click to expand...

I am not crying, I am actually laughing!!! All i can say is "Everything must be different in Texas!!!"

nate379 said:

All I can say is that the ONLY reason I have my Jetta is because it gets good mileage.

Click to expand...

So, which is it? You only bought it because it gets good mileage? Or you only bought it because you like diesels? It's OK, be honest! I like diesels, too!

Sometimes we need to stop and realize the topic of this thread, and that is does it really make monetary sense to own a TDI? I content that it does not, but that is not why I own 3 of them. In '98, when I bought my first TDI, it actually DID. Because literally in one year's worth of driving, it paid the cost difference from the gas version... .which I would have purchased anyways had the diesel not been available. In fact, I traded my '95 gas Golf in on the '98 Jetta. But even if I had driven it 1,000,000 miles, it still could not have paid for itself when compared to the 1998 Civic DX I could have purchased in 1998 for $12k that gets 41 MPG.

That difference is greater today, seeings how the 'TDI' option on a new Volkswagen is THRICE the cost difference it was, the gas car gets the same or better mileage while the diesel gets worse, and the other available gas cars have still remained far less costly to purchase, have become even less costly to maintain, and their fuel economy numbers have improved. HMC will have a DI Accent out soon that should be able to get 45+ MPG, spark plugs and all!

Maybe it is a throw of the dice. I've had incredible good fortune with my ALH. I've upgraded items, including some of the more expensive ones that may have failed by now (turbo and IP), but to buy a new ALH for 18K and drive it 244K without a single incident of being stranded (accident notwithstanding) and have the car still have substantial resale value is pretty impressive.

We have more than a few customers with 400K on their cars, a couple with 500K, and at least one with over 600K. Some of these cars have had remarkably few repairs. One with over 500K has the original clutch, turbo, and IP.

And I'd certainly buy a VW with a gas engine. I've bought several of them over the years, but mostly air cooled. I'm really interested in a Polo next, and if they don't have a TDI I may get a gasser.

I've never had much bad luck with any of my Volkswagens, either. But I treat them very well.

From my over 30 years of working on and driving German cars I can tell you they are only as good as they are treated . You let things go they can become piles of junk rather quickly . But if you pay attention to their needs they will serve you in a very satisfying way .

Words I learned to live by a very long time ago , "German engineers do things because they can not because they should" . And what that means is only the best trained can work on their offerings and that knowledge & experience comes at a price .

Also most of things that have failed on my cars over the last 30 years are because I pushed the power levels above what was reliable .

I can honestly say that owning a TDI is not the most economical choice. The engines are definately not cheap. For the cost to replace a leaking turbo and a proper timing belt job, you could buy a half-way decent car. Not only that, but the seals leak and the DMF's come apart. And then there is still the rest of the car to consider. The bushings on these cars wear out so quickly it is just silly. After just 10K miles, my TT bushings are already showing cracks in the rubber.

I would have to say that my NB has cost me more than any car that I have driven after only owning it for just over a year. I got it for $4k dollars with 130K miles on it and everything needed to be replaced on it. I have spent well over $3K dollars fixing it up the right way and I will probably need to spend another $2k to make it like new again. But by then, I figure, I'll be able to put 100K miles on it with just fluid and filter changes before I go through another $2-3K of replacement parts.

The only way that I could imagine saving money on this car would be to keep it for 20+ years without having any major accidents.

You buy a used TDI, need to replace things almost immediately!

I always see someone sell their used cars because there is something wrong with it!

FlashT said:

I can honestly say that owning a TDI is not the most economical choice. The engines are definitely not cheap. For the cost to replace a leaking turbo and a proper timing belt job, you could buy a half-way decent car. Not only that, but the seals leak and the DMF's come apart. And then there is still the rest of the car to consider. The bushings on these cars wear out so quickly it is just silly. After just 10K miles, my TT bushings are already showing cracks in the rubber.

I would have to say that my NB has cost me more than any car that I have driven after only owning it for just over a year. I got it for $4k dollars with 130K miles on it and everything needed to be replaced on it. I have spent well over $3K dollars fixing it up the right way and I will probably need to spend another $2k to make it like new again. But by then, I figure, I'll be able to put 100K miles on it with just fluid and filter changes before I go through another $2-3K of replacement parts.

The only way that I could imagine saving money on this car would be to keep it for 20+ years without having any major accidents.

Click to expand...

the car in my avatar pic was purchased for ~$1,200 with ~180,000 miles on the clock in the summer of 1989 . It's one of only ~600 loaded with all options A2s ever sold in the US , 85 Jetta GLs . It has power everything so was worth the ~$2,500-2,700 in parts I put into it weeks after I bought it . The body now has in excess of 700k on it and all still works as new . It has given over 20 years of 40+ mpg driving and I have today in it ~$5,500-6k or so with the cost of the Canadian drive train it has in it . I owned two 1989 Jettas Ds purchased new in the spring of 89 and they have long ago gone on to other owners . But I still have and drive this car . I sold my 91 Jetta D last fall for almost $4k to pay for another car I purchased last fall .

Do I care about what it has cost to keep it on the road , not really since it couldn't be replaced for any price . No one has sold a car with turbo diesel power and it's options that size in the US , not even VW for the last 25 years . It just turned 26 years old in Feb of this year , I've owned it for 22 years . I never thought I would keep a car that long but I would get into it tomorrow and drive the ~1,700 miles across the US without a second thought . How many 26 year old cars do you know you would trust like that ???????? I bet not many ...........

Don't get me wrong my Accord and Passat are my daily drivers but my 85 Jetta TD still clocks miles just as good today as the day it was built . And will likely continue for many years to come ........Maybe if we get the Polo offered here with a TDI I might consider retiring it .

It comes down to what is a particular car worth to you as to how much you will spend to keep it going and for how long you will continue to spend . Think about that next time someone calls something a money trap , which means they no longer wish to keep it going . Not that to someone else it isn't worth keeping going ...........

oilhammer said:

Show of hands of new car buyers that keep their cars long enough for this to matter?

Click to expand...

my hand goes up

oilhammer said:

I have 282k miles on a 1996 Odyssey. My 1989 Toyota pickup in its current owner's hands has well over 300k. My 1987 Mazda B2000 had 404k on it when a deer took it off the road... are these all hunks of junk, too?

Click to expand...

Hey I was talking about the Yaris

oilhammer said:

I agree, Volkswagens generally age very well. But the ones that I see here regularly with 300k+ miles on them are rarely driven by the original owners, and have all had quite a bit spent on them to keep them on the road.

Click to expand...

Your hand goes up... you have a 2009 Volkswagen. Is this your first new car? Easy to raise your hand when your car is only 2 years old . I'll raise my hand higher... mine is 20. Weigh in on this thread again in 2029, we'll compare numbers.



I hope your car then looks as good as my car now. That is my first new car. It is still in my garage. And I feel 100% confident your 2009 will make it, too, it just will take some love along the way.

Diesel as far as I'm concerned you shouldn't be messing with unless you are towing 10,000lbs on a regular basis or in a tractor. You will NEVER make it back in today's automotive world.



Oilhammer this is great.

"Anyone selling an ALH car should be slapped"



I agree in 10 years, I am waiting for the posts, HPFP failure.. junked car... Improper fueling.. junked car.

I think that VW and "TDI" is living on its reputation that it made from 2003 and older.

The current emissions standards are just stacked against these, I'm afraid.

I spent about a year "studying" this site before coming across a "sweetheart" deal on a TDI, and I bought it. That said, I had a very good understanding about TDI issues, BEFORE I bought the car.

Now remind you, there are people who drive cars, there are people who fix cars, and there are people, like me, who do both. If you do most of your own maintenance and repair, I think the TDI is the perfect car! (ALH's, anyway)

If your mechanical ability is limited to checking your fluids, and saving money is your primary goal, the TDI is probably NOT the car for you, (or ANY German car for that matter).

schwarze Käfer said:

Now remind you, there are people who drive cars, there are people who fix cars, and there are people, like me, who do both. If you do most of your own maintenance and repair, I think the TDI is the perfect car! (ALH's, anyway)

Click to expand...

ALH's are too easy to crown as "the TDI" to work on as an owner. What you really need to get your arms around is the 2004-05 Passat with the BHW engine. You know, the ones with the chain driven balance shaft, the liquid filled motor mounts, the tandem pump mounted against the firewall, the "VW only" axle shafts, the mysterious glow plug upgrades, the Audi front suspension....but still maintaining the use of ALH oil and fuel filters. This is one cobbled together TDI.

If you can conquer one of these, you are in good company.

If you don't like a TDI, don't own one....more for the rest of us

Arms not long enough....

aja8888 said:

ALH's are too easy to crown as "the TDI" to work on as an owner. What you really need to get your arms around is the 2004-05 Passat with the BHW engine. <snip> ...

If you can conquer one of these, you are in good company.

Click to expand...

I like good company; however, I'm a known underachiever?!?

I think you are missing the point of this whole thread. Is a TDI worth it. I'm with Oilhammer at one time it was 'cheaper' to run than an equivalent gas... we were/are a group of owners that do our own work and enjoyed diesel that was 20% less than gas and got 20%+ more MPG than a gas equivalent.

Now days, even for most 3/4 ton and 1 ton truck drivers, you shouldn't be running a diesel for ECONOMY because in the long run you will pay MORE to drive a diesel with the current situation. People are buying this TDIs because they prefer them, not because they are cheap to run. 10 years ago this wasn't the case.

Buy a Common Rail of you like them, but don’t come on here and tell me how cheap they are to run… 600,000 miles in an ALH and I know better. J

German engineered machines are well planned and built. Sure it's going to break down eventually, but it can also be prolonged with proper care and maintenance. They are fun to drive and well designed. It's weight keeps you on the ground. You cannot compare any domestic vehicle to a Vw let alone a German vehicle. the body's dont rust out as fast as the domestics.
I maintain my own vehicle so it's not to bad on my pocketbook. I am also anal and rustproof my vehicle with Mercedes Benz cavity wax every year. I remove door panels, kick plates, a b pillars etc... And get right in there with the protection. Stone chips are immediately looked after. As long as you protect the metal, it will stay solid.
All in all, it's been proven over and over again that the Germans build the best and reliable mechanical machines.
If you don't like your Vw then sell it. There are buyers waiting.