Suggestions for good resource on newer GTI's? '09 and newer?

petee_c

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15 Golf TDI, was 06 Jetta TDI, 15 q7 tdi, was 11 Q7 TDI
Looking to do some research on 'newer' VW GTI's with manual transmissions... preferably '09 and newer....
Not super familiar with the golf platform. Although I've had a mkIV and now mkV jetta...
Just window shopping kijiji.....
Peter
 

2.2TDI

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All I can tell you is stay away from the 2.0T from 2009 to 2012.. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear they like to eat lots of oil.
 

TOPH R

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Stupid GMC 2500HD non diesel :(
Not very accurate.
The audi motor had different rings and liked to consome a bit of oil...in a used car you would know fairly quickly if it had the problem, if it happened under warranty you got a new shortblock.

The vw's 2009+ (the tsi timing chain engine) didn't seem to have the issue.
The 2006-2008.5 gti with the fsi (timing belt engine) needed good oil changes and the occasional check of the cam follower.

I've had and loved both of those engines.

As for the clutch, the one in the mk5 gti's was far stronger than in the mk6 cars, different supplier I suppose, but most mk6 cars cannot take more than a stage 1 tune without an upgrade...I've driven a k04 equipped mk5 on the original clutch and she held very well for along time.

Food for thought, as a nice clutch setup for an mk6 gti is well above 1000 bucks.
 

McGuillicuddy

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I have a 2013 GTI (with 80K on it). Eats hardly any oil. I use a 10K OCI and sometimes it takes 500mL, sometimes none at all. Less than my ALH ever needed.

Agree with the bit about the clutch. It's perfectly fine for a stock car but can run into problems if you build it up beyond a Stage 1 tune.

The only major systematic problem is the timing chain tensioner. This can go on pre-2012 build-date models causing the chain to slip, which is obviously bad. The tensioner was redesigned and most MY2013 GTIs have the revised tensioner which fixed the problem. Some owners of earlier models get it replaced pre-emptively, some don't. I don't have a good feeling for the rate of failure on that.
 
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petee_c

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15 Golf TDI, was 06 Jetta TDI, 15 q7 tdi, was 11 Q7 TDI
Yeah.

I'm looking at a German car, I can accept a certain degree of internet hysterics about catastrophic failures.

I've owned and driven an 01 Boxster S with the m96 engine for the past 9 yrs... and a 06 jetta tdi with the brm engine for the past 3 yrs...

Good to know about the chain tensioners.



Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk
 

2.2TDI

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To be fair, I was not aware that 09-12 2.0T from Audi were different then the VW 2.0T from same years... That gives me food for thought as I too am car shopping and I have been very weary of 2.0T engines from that era...
 

TOPH R

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Stupid GMC 2500HD non diesel :(
I wouldn't worry too much about it, the internet has a way of blowing things out of proportion.

I will probably change the chain tensioner on my gti...but I have also never heard actual information from a shop about a failure like that.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
The early belt driven (BPY) engine which was used through mid 2008 (depending on model) is a pretty good engine, so long as it stays full of oil. They LOVE to eat oil. They can consume 5+ liters between services. They also had an issue with the cam follower for the HPFP wearing through. There is a TSB about this, as there is on some engines improves camshafts and followers, however the TSB also once again stresses the correct oil. Given the fact that so many of these engines burn so much oil, I tend to think that a lot of the cam follower issue is due to so many of them running around perpetually low on oil.

They also had some problems with the fuel pressure sensors, and some other minor control side hiccups, mostly fixed with software. Sooner or later, the oil consumption also causes catalyst failure. The BW turbochargers also get wastegate hardware slop, which can cause low boost DTCs even though the car never "feels" sluggish.

The late engines (CCTA, etc.) have all kinds of more intense problems. Many of which were addressed as that engine (which is still in production) has undergone lots of improvements. However, even the early versions had so many timing chain, timing chain tensioner, etc. problems that the replacement long block part numbers have about a half dozen supercessions between 2008 and 2012. By 2012 they have the newer style stuff from the factory.

But they still have the chronic crankcase breather valve sticking, causing the intake manifold and crankcase to be linked together, so when the turbo starts boosting, it also boosts the crankcase, and blows the seals out... most commonly the rear main seal, which is a REALLY dumbass design. Just a little round flap glued to a steel plate, and it just blows it right apart. I have probably done a hundred of these things. Not so bad on a FWD GTI, but much more labor intensive on an AWD car, especially something like the Audi A4 w/ automatic. I think that breather should be proactively changed every 20-40k miles. And the aftermarket ones are junk, even worse than the original (Hengst) ones, and I did not even think that was possible.

The other chronic issue the late ones have is the water pump. More specifically, the housing. They crack. And they start spewing coolant out the front (side) of the engine in a hurry. The water pump is this overcomplex thing buried underneath the intake manifold, driven by a tiny little toothed belt off the back end of the balance shaft (the balance shafts themselves are driven by one of the three chains in the front of the engine).

Of course, the intakes get to come off of these all the time anyways. If it isn't for the failed intake runner sensor (part of the intake, and part of a warranty extension on many models), then it is to scrape the crud out of the intake ports. Something that is common for all GDI engines, but for whatever reason these are, by far, the very worst of any of them. The BPYs did not seem to have nearly the trouble that the CCTA+ does. Short trips, cold weather, lots of idling, easy driving, wrong oil, etc. all make it worse. They'll manifest this as stumbles and misfires after a cold start, and poor uneven power delivery all the time. They can get to a point where they are almost undriveable when cold, especially with a manual, as they just run so terribly. And when you take the intake off, and look in the ports, they won't *look* that bad, until you start scraping on them. And even then, you would not think it could cause them to run so bad, that there must be something else wrong... but you get them all cleaned up and back together, and they run great again.

They also have the turbo wastegate linkage problem, but for whatever reason it seems even worse on these than on the BPY.

These engines, when bolted to manuals, use a DMF type clutch, and that flywheel is prone to failure. Luk, Sachs, whatever, they are all prone to failure. The DSG automatics also have this problem. The Aisin automatic (which the GTIs do not use) just eat a valve body every 80-120k miles. :p

When they are all dialed in, the do run great. Lots of power, lots of torque, and the delivery is flat and ample through the entire RPM range. And while they are no diesel, they will deliver reasonably good fuel economy at steady legal highway speeds, even if it does require premium gasoline.

I loathe the Tiguans because of these engines.... but I could stomach one if it was in a GTI with 3 pedals. Or maybe an Audi A3 (again, 3 pedals... life is too short not to shift your own gears).

All of these engines have ignition coil failures commonly. Luckily they are cheap and easy to replace.

The later versions (again, this depends on the model) have some extra improvements, and some stuff that just changed for unknown reasons (the oil cap? Seriously Volkswagen? After all these DECADES you had to change the OIL CAP so my fill funnel no longer works??? :mad: ). The Audis got some of these changes first. And the latest change just happened for the 2018 model year, the Budack version.

I have owned a few GTIs over the years, I think my favorite is still the '86 I had. But I could enjoy a new one. :)

Blanket statement warning for purchasing ANY used GTI: these cars are often gluttons for punishment. They often get purchased new by people who really run them hard, beat on them at every chance, and neglect them... then trade them in before the real cost of this abuse is realized. So I would really try and find one that you have some ability to gain knowledge of its previous life. If it is some 20-something punk snowflake whose daddy bought him a new GTI for his birthday and smells like recreational drugs inside and has two original tires with 50% tread and two bald Chinapops, then chances are it has not been treated well. But if you are buying one from some 60 year old empty-nester who wanted to relive some of his youth before he moves to Florida to await death, and the car looks and smells like new and has been parked in his garage next to his wife's Buick Lucerne most of the time, it has probably been treated pretty good.
 
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petee_c

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All food for thought. Thanks guys.

My '06 BRM still runs well. I have some rust in the rocker panels that needs to be corrected for cheap. VW doesnt seem to think it's their fault, so I'm looking for DIY options.

Luckily, I'm happy with my spray bomb abilities, just have to find the time and weather to do it - may wait til spring.

My BRM has 266,000km on it, a fresh timing belt, SMF (Valeo (?) green box) conversion, new strut front strut mounts and assorted rubber bits on the front suspension... For the past 3 yrs I've owned it, it has started every day, and brought me home everyday that I've used it. It's got an intermittent/pending p2015 code as well as a sagging headliner.

I'm hoping to transition to part-time in early 2018... maybe a 3 day work week, and that should give me some time to pursue other interests, but it also means a few less loonies in the bank account. Learning more about wrenching on cars is one of the things I want to do.

No rush, just window shopping... I'll wait for the right one and right price to pop up...
 
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petee_c

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15 Golf TDI, was 06 Jetta TDI, 15 q7 tdi, was 11 Q7 TDI
TSI and GTI....

Is there a odometer mileage that you would consider too much on these vehicles?

There are a few 2011ish GTI's with close to 200,000km on kijiji for under $12,000ish...

Is it something a decent DIY should tackle as a DD?
 

TOPH R

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Stupid GMC 2500HD non diesel :(
Knock on wood I have one with 240,000kms and it runs like a raped ape, and I do NOT baby it...ever lol.

All of the issues can be handled by yourself if they arise.
 

McGuillicuddy

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Glad to hear that. I'm slowly doing this experiment myself. My GTI is my DD and I do >30K per year, currently only at 85K. Yes I know, I should be driving a diesel (I used to!), but the GTI is a *lot* of fun and that's what I wanted.
 
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2.2TDI

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TSI and GTI....

Is there a odometer mileage that you would consider too much on these vehicles?

There are a few 2011ish GTI's with close to 200,000km on kijiji for under $12,000ish...

Is it something a decent DIY should tackle as a DD?
I wouldn't touch a 2.0T with over 120,000km... is it really worth dealing with headaches if they arise when you're spending north of $10000? I just bought a 2015 golf 1.8t comfortline with 45000km for $17000 and I got a couple extras that I asked for thrown in. Throw a stage 1 APR tune on the EA888 1.8T for 400 bucks and you have 240bhp right there if performance is what you're after
 
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McGuillicuddy

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So you think one should not keep a GTI past 120K? That seems a bit alarmist, no?

Also, if your 1.8T Golf is a manual I wouldn't expect the stock clutch to hold 234HP/273Ft-Lb for very long.
 

2.2TDI

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So you think one should not keep a GTI past 120K? That seems a bit alarmist, no?

Also, if your 1.8T Golf is a manual I wouldn't expect the stock clutch to hold 234HP/273Ft-Lb for very long.
I didn't say that, I said I wouldn't bother buying a used one past 120,000km given prices are fairly high, there's a difference between keeping one past 120,000km and buying a used one after 120,000km

As for the 1.8T with APR tune, I just threw the idea out there, I didn't even think about the clutch. But, add another 1000 for a clutch and there's your gti performance if that's what one is after...
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I for one do not think the numbers in the odometer are the most meaningful way of determining the condition of the car. Just too many other variables.
 

2.2TDI

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I for one do not think the numbers in the odometer are the most meaningful way of determining the condition of the car. Just too many other variables.
I somewhat agree but kms are kms at the end of the day even with tip top maintenance... That's my belief at least but we're all entitled to our own opinion. I wouldn't think of getting a gti over 120000km from those years, especially for the prices they're going for... Maybe if I got one for fairly cheap I'd consider it, but then if it's cheap it's probably not maintained or got something wrong with it...
 

petee_c

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Heidelberg, Ontario, Canada
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15 Golf TDI, was 06 Jetta TDI, 15 q7 tdi, was 11 Q7 TDI
I wouldn't touch a 2.0T with over 120,000km... is it really worth dealing with headaches if they arise when you're spending north of $10000? I just bought a 2015 golf 1.8t comfortline with 45000km for $17000 and I got a couple extras that I asked for thrown in. Throw a stage 1 APR tune on the EA288 1.8T for 400 bucks and you have 240bhp right there if performance is what you're after
I had a new 2002 1.8T that I put an APR 91 tune on it (I don't think they 'staged' them at that time)... Had 260,000km when I sold it. but it had wet carpets from the sunroof drains I'm thinking... I think it was about $30,000 OTD, I sold it for under $3000 12 yrs later.... Clutched survived through my ownership

I'm trying to figure out the best cost/fun/odometer reading ratio for my next DD.

On my 2006 Jetta TDI, I put about 36,000km/yr... That number should go down to about 30,000km/yr starting next April as I move to 0.7FTE at my job. I bought it in May 2014, with 140K km on it, and now it has 268K km on it in Nov 2017. 42 months and 128K km.... That averages out to just over 3,000km per month.

I overpaid a bit for it in May 2014, when gas prices were still fairly high. I think I paid $11,000 for it including a set of winter rims. Realistically, it's in very good shape, but I doubt I could get more than $4000 for it now. I was lucky, I got 2 rear quarter panel repairs, 2 new fenders, a hood and trunk from the VW corrosion warranty in fall 2014. The rocker panels need a bit of attention, as well as the driverside door. I hope to address those in the spring..

TB+ WP, Clutch - $800 + $500 labor, $400 brakes, pads, rotors, a few calipers and lines, $600 bearings, $50 ABS sensor, $300 - n95 valve... say about $2000 in maintenance costs... plus 10 oil changes - say $50 per

$2500 in maintenance costs..., but I need to drive it another 60,000km + to get my money's worth out of the timingbelt.

Just trying to figure out that sweet spot where you let the previous owner's take the big hit on depreciation, but you still get some usable life out of the vehicle....

end of rambling for now
 
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