BHW/01E 6 Speed Swap

vwztips

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2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
I find it easier to let the fuse box hang down.
 

CharlieT

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OK, some more pics of the pilot bearing setup, hope this helps others.

ARL crank fitted into BHW block, no issues. I have BSM delete so that made it easier. Didn't take the head off, just dropped the pan and carefully left the rods in place. New main and rod bolts. Bearings looked fine, and the ARL crank mic'd identical diameters to the BHW.

Pilot bearing installed in ARL crank, recessed 1mm below face (per Bentley), with writing to outside/visible (ie seal is outermost).


Then gearbox fitted with no flywheel/clutch, to allow viewing of bearing


Pilot bearing engagement, with 5.5mm spacer and ARL crank


Then input shaft viewed from same angle for comparison


End result, I don't think you could get away with the BHW crank and the 5.5mm spacer (which is required for the 240mm DMF).
If you visualize the shorter BHW crank, and then the ID chamfer which forces you to recess the pilot bearing, I cannot see how you could get a lot of engagement, if any.

Final shot of 240mm LUK DMF fitted, with SRE PP and disc.
 
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thundershorts

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So with the 6sp, to use the dmf, the crank change looks necessary for enough pilot shaft to engage bearing surface. Why wouldn't a oilite bronze custom bearing work as well in a BHW crank?
 

CharlieT

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Why wouldn't a oilite bronze custom bearing work as well in a BHW crank?
No reason why not, it would be a simple solution. I don't have ready access to a lathe here, but I can think of a few vendors that could knock something out and make it available for swaps.
It would have more friction than the needle roller bearing, especially once it is full of clutch dust. It would need to be tested to ensure that this additional drag on the input shaft with clutch pressed does not hinder synchro engagement, I suspect it might.
 

thundershorts

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I doubt if clutch dust would be a problem because the centrifical force generally slings it into the bellhousing, not the center. oilite works quite well in other apps so it should be as good as the needle bearings, which have been known in other apps to fail and gall input shafts. anyway with some copper based grease on it, it ought to work fine. Charlie, I hope you've got the vibration issue resolved finally.
 

thundershorts

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A lathe is an useful tool in any shop. even a small hf 500 buck one for doing thing like bushings.

 

Uberhare

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Charlie - thanks for all the details. I will be having a closer look when I get ahold of a new clutch.

Update: Fixed the clutch switch wiring today. I used a 2 pin switch from a Jetta, and decided not to worry about the start interlock. It annoys me anyway.

1) Remove ECU from box at wiper cowl -drivers side. (5 x 8mm bolts)
2) Remove ECU and unplug harness.
3) Remove pin 59 from the larger connector. It is a grey wire.

Remove cover from harness - cut tie strap, and release locking tab then slide.



Remove purple locking tab from side of the connector



Release pin 59 (my terminal tools were not small enough - so I used a flatted paper clip. Worked fine. ) and re-insert into pin 43.



4) Inside the car - cut the kickdown wire from pin 1 (again grey wire) at the pedal harness. Splice one end of the clutch switch harness to here.
5) Splice the other terminal on the switch to the RED/WHITE white on the brake harness switch.

The ECU sees a signal with +12 volts is applied through the switch. With proper manual tune/programming the cruise will not function unless the ECU sees a signal here. You can verify your work through vag-com measuring blocks.

Looks like this mod is here to stay (clutch interlock by-pass):

 
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Uberhare

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If the clutch switch doesn't engage at the correct point - it is adjustable. Just push it in or pull it out. You'll feel it click as you do it.



One last note - if you need really good tape that resembles factory use 3M Friction tape. I buy it from Home Depot in the electrical department.



Plus as a bonus it's made in Canada and supports my local economy!
 

turbocharged798

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Without a 5.5mm spacer between the block and the trans, it seems you can make it work, several people have.
You MAY also be able to make it work with a spacer, you just need to be REALLY careful how deep you install the pilot bearing and double check the engagement length.
My understanding is that the 012 and 01Es really do not like having the input shaft supported properly by the pilot bearing. Someone on here forgot to install the pilot and found it immediately very hard to shift, especially 1st.

The crank option is a whole lot of work, but not expensive if you do your own labor. Used ARL cranks go for $40-80 in UK + shipping.

I have not got to the bottom of why my 6sp swap is resonating so badly. I am doing some more work on it this week, and will post once I find something conclusive. I need hard facts before I post.
Its really not that big of a deal top swap cranks when you have the transmission out already. Plus if you are doing the BSM and timing belt, you are pretty much 90% of the way there.
 

Uberhare

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My 40km drive to work this morning:



:D No hypermiling, just 10K over the limit cruising in traffic. I'm averaging 5.4 right now in the warmer weather. 70% hwy.
 

Scott_DeWitt

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So which ones will? I have been searching and all the ones I see are for MK IV's. Is this an EU only part? I like the idea of keeping the DMF to keep the NVH down. I have the VR60 clutch in my MK IV Jetta and it is noisy as hell. But at the same time I want one that will hold up to a mild tune. I mostly drive like an old fart, but every now and then I want to punch it and play :D

Scott
The only USA options are the 240mm from the 2.0 fsi cars but I'm not sure how it will hold up with diesel torque. Using an SMF is not an option as it destroys synchro rings in the 01E.
 

Da-BRT

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@Uberhare: Nice conversion, my compliments.

I got the same 6 speed (DQS) from a wrecked 2.5 V6 TDI (150HP) here.

Do you know the ratios, or where I can find them. The 02A, 02J and 02M is not that difficult to find, but these 01E ratios is difficult.

Regards,

Bert
 

Uberhare

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6 speed from 04 Passat TDI PD130.GVS

Final: 31/8 = 3.875
1) 28/8 = 3.5
2) 34/18 = 1.89
3) 32/26 = 1.23
4) 28/30 = .93
5) 27/37 = .73
6) 24/40 = .6

It turns 1950rpm @ 100kph.

Ratios are confirmed via ETKA.
 

vwztips

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Da-BRT, for the DQS you asked about and from my notes:

Final = 3.85
1) 3.5
2) 1.89
3) 1.23
4) 0.87
5) 0.67
6) 0.56

Calculated speed at 2000 RPM = 68.5

There have been a few folks which have used this gearbox but reported lots of noise and vibration around the 2000 RPM level in 5th and 6th which may have to do with the taller gearing.
 

Uberhare

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It's been awhile since I did this swap, so I thought I would update. I've put about 16K kms on it, and averaged 5.5L/100km in the summer weather. (despite my fuelly sig - I've been too lazy to update every fill).

Initially I had clutch slippage and back off the tune from 25psi to 22psi. All was well until I sent my wife on a 1000K journey and she came back complaining it didn't shift quite right...:rolleyes::rolleyes: The clutch slips now when you push it hard. To recall I am running the stock DMF 240mm setup. Now I need an upgrade and soon. I have to explore my quickly available options, while retaining a DMF (being it 240 or 228mm). I've read too many people having syncro issues with the SMF setup. Although Valeo lists a 240mm SMF replacement setup for the PD130/PD150 setup. These motors do not have balance shafts, could that be the ticket? Do the BSM delete and the SMF? I can't imagine Valeo would sell it if they were having problems.

The other thing I never dealt with was the possibility of lack of pilot bearing engagement. It would be best to deal with both at the same time.

Overall I have been very happy with the way the car drives and the fuel economy. If I were to do it again, I'd probably settle for the cheaper less problematic 5 speed swap.
 

Whitbread

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The custom clutch setup I worked with DC to develop uses the same disk hub that's in the the Valeo/Luk smf conversion kits for the 4cyl TDI/01E applications in europe. Using this clutch setup, you use the stock bhw starter and remove the spacer plate so the pilot bearing engagement isn't an issue with the bhw crank.

Other option would be to have South Bend refurb the dmf setup with an ofe disk and lathe up a custom oilite pilot bushing that would stick out of the crank about ~5mm to get full snout engagement.
 

CharlieT

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I am running the stock Luk 240mm DMF, with a Sachs Race Engineering pressure plate (heavier than stock) and SRE rigid organic disc. I got Ryan to source it for me, he now sells the kit here.
10,000 miles now, runs great. Pedal is pretty heavy, even with the stiffest clutch pedal spring option (green one).
Personally, I would never again put any SMF on the PD/01E setup. If you dig thru ETKA, all the 01Es are used with DMFs, whereas a lot of the 5sps were with SMF. There has to be a good reason for this.
As others have posted, the 01E has very long input shaft, with heavy (thick) gears, and so appears to be very sensitive to torsional harmonics on the input shaft. This causes a large resonance, and kills synchros fast due to chatter.
There are two ways to avoid this resonance. Fit a MUCH heavier flywheel, which will reduce the crank accel/decel twice per rev, or fit a DMF to prevent the harmonic being transmitted into the gearbox.
My 228mm SMF setup (SBC stg 2E) weighed 36.5 lbs (inc PP) and resonated horribly.
My DMF setup weighs 38 lbs and is silent. I find it hard to believe that only 1.5 lbs made the difference, it is the DMF springs doing their job and preventing harmonics being transmitted up the 01E input shaft.
 

Uberhare

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Thanks for the info Charlie. I verified all the P/Ns in the Sachs catalog and ordered the parts. ZF/Sachs North America can order them in. 4 weeks away.
 

gerwazy

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Any idea if I will need the spacer and dowel pins for a 1.8T auto to manual swap with a Valeo SMF as well??? I was reading somewhere that you need to shave the crank by 4 mm but maybe this will solve that problem...
 

Uberhare

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5 speed or 6 speed?

5 speed - no problems.
6 speed - 240mm flywheel requires the spacer and longer dowel pins.

From what I have read here and other forums, do not use a SMF with the 6 speed. It will destroy your syncro's quickly.
 

gerwazy

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5 speed or 6 speed?

5 speed - no problems.
6 speed - 240mm flywheel requires the spacer and longer dowel pins.

From what I have read here and other forums, do not use a SMF with the 6 speed. It will destroy your syncro's quickly.
I forgot to mention I am going with a 5 speed so I guess I won't need the spacer, thanks.
 

vwztips

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Just don't forget to check clearances at the end of crank. As you know there is a different crank for the auto 1.8t vs the manual 1,8t crank.

You also need to check the hole diameter at the end of the crank. IIRC it is not big enough to accept the roller bearing required for the manual transmission.
 

Whitbread

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From what I have read here and other forums, do not use a SMF with the 6 speed. It will destroy your syncro's quickly.
Not true. While a very few have had syncro problems using smf kits in 01E's, both used the exact same clutch kit meant for gas engines with stiff-ish sprung clutch disks. We've been doing this in the TDI world for years with the vr6/g60 based setups with no problems. However, it's been found out the hard way that an 01E absolutely requires a very softly sprung clutch disk and a heavy flywheel to absorb torsional harmonics. All the 02A, 02J, 02M, 02Q, 01A transmissions don't seem to care in the same manner. Having said that, there are tons of people in europe running thousands of miles trouble free on 01E's with appropriate smf kits that just happen to not work so well with our BHW arrangement (namely shorter crank snout limiting pilot bearing engagement with spacer plate when using dmf setup).

Both LUK and Valeo make DMF to SMF conversion kits for longitudinal TDI's with 01E's. I find it impossible that such a large company would spend millions to engineer a clutch kit that would destroy their biggest customer's transmissions. See here http://www.bazarek.pl/produkt/3534252/sprzeglo-passat-b5-19tdi-18-sztywne-kolo-valeo.html

However, that setup still requires you to use the dmf funky starter and spacer. I worked with DC Clutch to develop a billet steel flywheel that lets you use no spacer plate, use a softly sprung 240mm disc, stock BHW starter, and weighs 41lbs overall (same as 240mm dmf). See first post in my vendor thread for pics.
 
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Uberhare

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Yes - I have found all the Valeo p/n's in their catalog already. That kit is only 230mm as well. I'm not willing to risk my transmission. Too costly to get another one here or rebuild.
 

TokenRednek

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Can I get a little clarification on some of your parts list?

When you say axles..which car are you getting these from? Also. Can you reprogram ecu using vag com? Or do I need something else? Flashzilla?

I'm just confused on some of the parts needed that's all. I plan on doing this swap and want to know exactly where to source these parts. I have several local junkyards I can choose from that always have a hefty supply of VW. The more I can get locally the cheaper it will be for me.
 

Uberhare

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Too many.
Axles are from a 6 speed TDI Passat in Europe. You can use 1.8T/v6 manual axles if using a 5 speed.

You will need both a flash tool and vagcom. Engine ECU will need custom software, then vagcom to recode the can gateway and ABS module.

You can source 5 speed parts locally, but the ratios will be a bit short for a TDI. Some have swapped over 5th gear to something taller to compensate. Best option is to spring for a proper European geared TDI 5 or 6 speed. With a 5 speed you can retain your original starter as well. 6 speed uses a Euro only unit.
 

Sprocket

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With a 5 speed you can retain your original starter as well. 6 speed uses a Euro only unit.
You can use a 01E 6 speed trans and the stock starter without using a spacer plate between the trans & the engine.
 

tikal

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My 40km drive to work this morning:

:D No hypermiling, just 10K over the limit cruising in traffic. I'm averaging 5.4 right now in the warmer weather. 70% hwy.
I noticed than in your Fuelly graph you got a substantial pump in mileage from May 1 to May 8 (36.6 to 41.7 MPG) with your six speed set up. Do you attribute that mostly to going from winter to summer fuel or driving more highway, or .... ?
 
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