High speed MPG - (for thoes mostly near an autobahn...)

85_305 · Jan 11, 2011

JasonCzerak said:
And the story changes... was doing 70, then 100, then 90.. I'm "guessing" at 90mph average

The human brain can't not calculate averages like you think you were. I bet you were doing 80mph more often then not.

I wouldnt say the story changes, merely more information is added. Staying at one speed consistently, as opposed to going 60mph one minute, 110 the next, and 90 the next, would actually be counterproductive to yielding good mileage. The point is, we were going 90mph a good chunk of time; but if there were open roads we didn't flinch to hit 100-110 or so. 80 was 5mph over the speedlimit where we were... I can assure you we weren't going 80 very often. I made up like a trip that should have taken me another hour and a half or so, in about 45mins. Maybe 50. I was only 5mins late to my appointment when I was going to be over an hour late before we started hauling

shizzler said:
In any case, we can all agree that TDIs pull down phenomenal mileage at high speeds

Exactly

kotflb · Jan 11, 2011

According to MS Streets and Trips '08 mapping program, the mileage between Durango and Las Vegas is only 534, not 584. But then again I'll take those mpg #s and be quite happy with them.

BarnyardsTDI · Jan 11, 2011

Maybe the Germans found a way to put Carnot heat engines in some the PD TDI'

GTSLOW · Jan 12, 2011

85_305 said:
I wouldnt say the story changes, merely more information is added. Staying at one speed consistently, as opposed to going 60mph one minute, 110 the next, and 90 the next, would actually be counterproductive to yielding good mileage. The point is, we were going 90mph a good chunk of time; but if there were open roads we didn't flinch to hit 100-110 or so. 80 was 5mph over the speedlimit where we were... I can assure you we weren't going 80 very often. I made up like a trip that should have taken me another hour and a half or so, in about 45mins. Maybe 50. I was only 5mins late to my appointment when I was going to be over an hour late before we started hauling

Exactly

I see Fort Bragg as your location. Please tell me this isn't a Soldier spreading this BS?

85_305 · Jan 12, 2011

Nope. Not anymore.

Believe what you want. I give a **** if you think I'm lying. I'll go to bed here in a few hours and not think twice about it.

ruking · Jan 13, 2011

kotflb said:
According to MS Streets and Trips '08 mapping program, the mileage between Durango and Las Vegas is only 534, not 584. But then again I'll take those mpg #s and be quite happy with them.

Actually the 617 miles route is what was actually taken I 15 s

http://www.mapquest.com/

Yes I was happy at the mpg posted. I actually had enough fuel left with the 48.26 mpg consumption rate to actually fuel in downtown Las Vegas 48 * 14 gals=672 miles but because it was pretty much desolate, when the low fuel lamp came on. I decided to fuel.

ruking · Jan 13, 2011

shizzler said:
Ruking, do me a favor and stop telling me I am full of it. I am being as objective as possible (ok, maybe with some colorful doubt on the part of your #s).

I am not saying you are just making up numbers for fun. I don't see any point in that. But you need to accept that there is room in your measurements for some serious error. Just think logically for a second here. Why would your TDI be over 30% more efficient than everyone elses? If this was really true, I would recommend you take your car straight to a laboratory for a detailed analysis. Because whatever is special about your car needs to be understood and applied to all new vehicles. The other, much more plausible scenario is that you have some serious error in your calculations. Again, not intentionally.

The BSFC map posted above is not a theory. In fact, it matches my own real world results to within +/- 1 mpg. Average speeds over full tank refills. Then I changed my 5th gear ratio, plotted everything again, and it correctly predicted my increase in mpg (i.e. not much, haha). The data on this BSFC plot is straight from Volkswagen. It stems from many hours of diligent dynamometer testing under high scrutiny. It is a much more realistic starting point for correctly estimating fuel economy than to listen to one guy who claims some amazing results, and only later admits he drove all downhill.... etc.

And for 80% of Americans... the real world is pretty flat on a daily basis. I.e. the whole Midwest and almost every metropolitan area east of the Rockies. Driving 4500 ft down in one direction hardly constitutes the average driving route.

Sorry for not googling your driving route right away, my bad. But I did go back and look up the exact weather records for the exact time of your trip. You had an avg 22.7 mph tailwind at approximately a 5.3 to 6.7% angle of yaw. I used government satellite surveillance records to observe you repeatedly drafting semis as well! tsk tsk.

Still full of it eh?

You have firmly convinced me that YOU could probably NOT get the kind of mpg posted . Why should anybody believe your 50+ to 56 best? That has to work for you !! It works surely for me. But really that is not the only time 48-50 mpg was posted going @ longer hours and times mentioned, but it is pointless to air that here. But like 85 305 says ..."Believe what you want. I give a **** if you think I'm lying. I'll go to bed here in a few hours and not think twice about it. "...

NewTdi · Jan 13, 2011

My best tank I got close to (not correct 63mpg) 55.55MPG going to LAX and back no traffic and cruising at 70mpg with less than 12K miles on the engine!

120getsitdone · Jan 13, 2011

wow! good info guys

ruking · Jan 13, 2011

NewTdi said:
My best tank I got close to 63mpg going to LAX and back no traffic and cruising at 70mpg with less than 12K miles on the engine!

Yes and the R/T is surely NOT flat !! Sea level to top of what 4,200ft (grapevine) and back to sea level. Going back sea level to 4,200 ft (grapevine) and back down to sea level?

NewTdi · Jan 13, 2011

ruking said:
Yes and the R/T is surely NOT flat !! Sea level to top of what 4,200ft (grapevine) and back to sea level. Going back sea level to 4,200 ft (grapevine) and back down to sea level?

Yes, that exact one! I filled at the base of the grapevine (bakersfield side) drove to long beach and then back home and the needle on the fuel indicator was barely touching the 1/2 mark ... ahhh those days are far gone! I would love to draft a truck at 75mph and see what kinda mileage I will get! There was an episode of mybusters and they tested mileage improvement ... @ 90mph when drafting someone mileage would take very little toll as teh force required to maintain speed is much less ...

shizzler · Jan 13, 2011

Again. Never said you were lying. Thick headed, yes. Liar, meh, probably not. I don't see the incentive.

My car is heavily modified, including a substantially lower coefficient of drag. From what I can tell your car is stock.

You are adamant about your trip and mileage, so whatever. Good work, that is amazing, and yeah, you certainly shouldn't care what I think - though you keep responding like you need to put me down to feel better about what you've claimed. Do want us to congratulate you for planting your foot to the floor and getting 48mpg? Or are you trying to inform newbs that this is a typical result? Because it should be pretty obvious from everyone else's comments that it is certainly not.

Will you admit to obtaining extremely un-ordinary mileage? Do you realize you are posting perhaps the single best high speed mileage report of any North American TDI? At least be reasonable and say something that's not so flippant. All the other people who think you're full of sh*t? It's because they have TDIs, too. And the rest of us could never hope to get mileage anywhere near what you claim.

Derrel H Green · Jan 13, 2011

NewTdi said:
Yes, that exact one! I filled at the base of the grapevine (Bakersfield side) drove to Long Beach and then back home and the needle on the fuel indicator was barely touching the 1/2 mark . . ahhh those days are far gone! I would love to draft a truck at 75mph and see what kinda mileage I will get! There was an episode of mybusters and they tested mileage improvement ... @ 90mph when drafting someone mileage would take very little toll as the force required to maintain speed is much less ...

Yeah, right! I don't think so.

D

Bob_Fout · Jan 13, 2011

I think California fuel has some extra "good stuff" added to it and fumes get inhaled.

63 MPG at 70 MPH (true, not indicated). Really? Really?! LMAO. Any other TDI would get 10 MPG less.

Derrel H Green · Jan 13, 2011

The Truth

The truth and very well said!

D

dremd · Jan 13, 2011

With the 6 speed, under tray, hint of a grill block I am near 50 (hate to quote, but I think 48.x) at 80 mph on summer D2. At my (new) normal speed of 77-78 I am *just* over 50mpg.

The 6th gear becomes much more beneficial at those speeds than at slower speeds.

Maddest trip I ever made was Lafayette to Houston (205 miles) in just (seconds) shy of 2 hours. Yes totally retarded, cruised around 125, with a few sprints north of 140 and the few slow downs in between It took basically an entire tank of gasoline in a Supra, but I never calculated the MPG. If you are wondering what it is like to drive that fast for that long drive loops through your WalMart parking lot at 50 mph for 2 hours. 18 years old and plain Dumb.

NewTdi · Jan 13, 2011

Derrel H Green said:
Yeah, right! I don't think so.

D

Derrell,
trust me it happened only once and I was shocked! I think I finished that tank at 787 miles since I drove the second half more like I stole it. How it happened I really can't explain! I have been trying to chase that 700 mile club since and only once I was able to do so.
So you don't believe also all the hypermilers on the monthly mileage thread that average well over 60mpg consistently?

Let me see 500 miles at 9 gallons = ooops 55.55mpg MY BAD

Now back on topic - HIGH SPEED MILEAGE

Derrel H Green · Jan 13, 2011

NewTdi said:
Derrel,
Trust me it happened only once and I was shocked! I think I finished that tank at 787 miles since I drove the second half more like I stole it. How it happened I really can't explain!
I have been trying to chase that 700 mile club since and only once I was able to do so.
So you don't believe also all the hypermilers on the monthly mileage thread
that average well over 60mpg consistently? [NO]

Let me see 500 miles at 9 gallons = ooops 55.55mpg MY BAD

Basically no, I do not!
But for those that have installed higher ratio fifth gears or have gone to 6-speeds with the proper
sixth gear ratio and are using GY Assurance Fuel Max tires, I am inclined to believe them.
But you have not done any of those modifications, have you?

I had a 2002 wagon. I Upsoluted it and installed balanced PP520s from
Kerma, so I do know a little about what those older TDIs can do.

But anything in the fifties is suspect IMHO, and when poster claim in the 60s running
up and down the Grapevine and it's five mile killer grade, I do not believe it, period.

D

Bob_Fout · Jan 13, 2011

NewTdi said:
So you don't believe also all the hypermilers on the monthly mileage thread that average well over 60mpg consistently?

Hypermilers by definition do all kinds of things to eek out the most distance with the least fuel.

Driving slow
Excessively low RPM
Pulse and glide
Slowing down going up hills and speeding up going down them
Some coast with the engine off, some out of gear, some in gear.
Slow acceleration and skip-shifting

That's not what most call normal driving.

greengeeker · Jan 13, 2011

You guys are going the opposite direction of the OP's intent.

shizzler said:
Do want us to congratulate you for planting your foot to the floor and getting 48mpg? Or are you trying to inform newbs that this is a typical result? Because it should be pretty obvious from everyone else's comments that it is certainly not.

I certaintly hope not. If so, you're misleading them and causing them a lot of frustration when they can't replicate your results (NO ONE CAN)

I once achieved ~75mpg on a trip back from WI averaging 62mph [with a steady 30mph tailwind]. Should I share those results with new tdi owners without the information in the brackets? What? Why not? I did it with a REAL car, on REAL roads, driving REAListically.

NewTdi · Jan 14, 2011

Derrel H Green said:
Basically no, I do not!
But for those that have installed higher ratio fifth gears or have gone to 6-speeds with the proper
sixth gear ratio and are using GY Assurance Fuel Max tires, I am inclined to believe them.
But you have not done any of those modifications, have you?

I had a 2002 wagon. I Upsoluted it and installed balanced PP520s from
Kerma, so I do know a little about what those older TDIs can do.

But anything in the fifties is suspect IMHO, and when poster claim in the 60s running
up and down the Grapevine and it's five mile killer grade, I do not believe it, period.

D

I take your disagreement in stride. Can we agree how many gallons go into the tank when its at the half mark? Total miles were 517.3

Derrel H Green · Jan 14, 2011

No

NewTdi said:
I take your disagreement in stride. Can we agree how many gallons go into the tank when its at the half mark? Total miles were 517.3

No.
What the gauge sez is not an accurate indication of exactly
how much fuel was used or how much remains.

What the fuel gauge registers is no indication of exactly
how much fuel has been used or how much remains!

The only real way to be able to know what kind of F E one gets is to fill the
tank each time clear up to the top using the same pump at the same
station with your vehicle parked facing the same direction.

Guessing how much fuel remains because the gauge sez you have half a tank remaining does not mean anything. As an example, my 2010 will often go 400 Miles before the gauge sez half full, but it will not go another 300 miles before the low fuel light comes on. Once it went 431 miles to half tank, and that time, it went 710 miles before the light came on and 731 miles before I filled it up. I filled it at the same pump both times! That one time, it figured out to exactly 50.22 mpg; I haven't been able to repeat
that high of a F E reading since. Wait until next summer. I think I can better that.

View my Fuelly.

D

Bob_Fout · Jan 14, 2011

NewTdi said:
I take your disagreement in stride. Can we agree how many gallons go into the tank when its at the half mark? Total miles were 517.3

Vented or unvented? Filled to the brim (visible fuel) or not for the previous and current tank?

NewTdi · Jan 14, 2011

Bob_Fout said:
Vented or unvented? Filled to the brim (visible fuel) or not for the previous and current tank?

Vented, visible fuel to the brim! Have been venting since the 3rd fill-up

JasonCzerak · Jan 14, 2011

Bob_Fout said:
Hypermilers by definition do all kinds of things to eek out the most distance with the least fuel.

Driving slow

Excessively low RPM

Pulse and glide

Slowing down going up hills and speeding up going down them

Some coast with the engine off, some out of gear, some in gear.

Slow acceleration and skip-shifting

That's not what most call normal driving.

On an ALH isn't the fuel "off" with throttle at 0% and rpm above 1000rpm, therefore less fuel burn if you leave it in gear while coasting?

If you shut the engine off to save a penny while in motion, you should be shot between the eyes... Brakes don't work so well after the first push......

dremd · Jan 14, 2011

JasonCzerak said:
On an ALH isn't the fuel "off" with throttle at 0% and rpm above 1000rpm, therefore less fuel burn if you leave it in gear while coasting?

If you shut the engine off to save a penny while in motion, you should be shot between the eyes... Brakes don't work so well after the first push......

Yes, but you will not coast nearly as far. If you are coming up to an area where you need to slow down, that is perfect, but if you are trying to cover ground, idling is better and engine off is much better. Yes even .15 GPH adds up.

I have gotten an honest 79 mpg fill, but the engine was off MORE than it was on, top speed was around 55mph and LOTS of time around 40 mph. Not recommended, not realistic, not very repeatable, and probably not economic, but to prove a point it works great.

Conan · Jan 14, 2011

I found the mileage 'sweet spot' on my Tundra when I went through an entire tank in a snowstorm. I was probably driving 40-45 continuously for hours. There is a speed where forward progress is maximized and wind drag is minimized. I wonder where that 'sweet spot' is on a TDI... If you drove for a whole tank at 45MPH without stopping, would that be the highest FE scenario?

Losha · Jan 14, 2011

Believe or not but what I found out from asking people what mpg they get in their vehicles specially in TDIs and answers are all kinds. I would say that 7 out of 10 people don't know how to accurately measure mpgs. Most of them look at how much they paid for fuel to fill up tank and they drove # of miles lets say 300 miles on it, but have no clue how many gallons they put in. Some fill their tank full then drive # of miles and fill tank up again and do math on how many gallons they put in to get tank full again. Well guess what people, this way your results will vary greatl y and never will be accurate also MPG numbers will be sky high. Lets take TDI owners, about 90% them don't have their fuel tank vent valve removed, 75% of them never vent when filling up and only fill their tank till foam raises and shuts pump off. In this case the tank is not full and can take another 2 gallons to fill upto top of neck.

For those of you that claiming to get above 50mpg driving over 70mph is full of you, unless your TDI capable running on fumes, I wont believe you till see with my own eyes. I can believe getting 50+mpg driving at 50-60mph hypermilling at ideal conditions also driving at that speed very long distance on full tank of fuel, very possible to achieve this way, but not by driving with flow of traffic.

Those of you that disagree with me then bring me your super high mpg TDI and I will show you what its real world driving mpg is, driving at 70mph speed on FULL tank of fuel filled from light to top of neck. Be ready to be disapointed with your TDI!

john.jackson9213 · Jan 14, 2011

Bob:

We have no need to sniff diesel fumes in California. We have much better "stuff"

.

Bob_Fout said:
I think California fuel has some extra "good stuff" added to it and fumes get inhaled.

63 MPG at 70 MPH (true, not indicated). Really? Really?! LMAO. Any other TDI would get 10 MPG less.

85_305 · Jan 14, 2011

JasonCzerak said:
On an ALH isn't the fuel "off" with throttle at 0% and rpm above 1000rpm, therefore less fuel burn if you leave it in gear while coasting?

If you shut the engine off to save a penny while in motion, you should be shot between the eyes... Brakes don't work so well after the first push......

Above 1200rpms the IP shuts down when coasting

dremd said:
Yes, but you will not coast nearly as far. If you are coming up to an area where you need to slow down, that is perfect, but if you are trying to cover ground, idling is better and engine off is much better. Yes even .15 GPH adds up.

I have gotten an honest 79 mpg fill, but the engine was off MORE than it was on, top speed was around 55mph and LOTS of time around 40 mph. Not recommended, not realistic, not very repeatable, and probably not economic, but to prove a point it works great.

79mpg is friggen awesome. Like you said, not feasible at all, but it can be done!

Losha said:
Believe or not but what I found out from asking people what mpg they get in their vehicles specially in TDIs and answers are all kinds. I would say that 7 out of 10 people don't know how to accurately measure mpgs. Most of them look at how much they paid for fuel to fill up tank and they drove # of miles lets say 300 miles on it, but have no clue how many gallons they put in. Some fill their tank full then drive # of miles and fill tank up again and do math on how many gallons they put in to get tank full again. Well guess what people, this way your results will vary greatl y and never will be accurate also MPG numbers will be sky high. Lets take TDI owners, about 90% them don't have their fuel tank vent valve removed, 75% of them never vent when filling up and only fill their tank till foam raises and shuts pump off. In this case the tank is not full and can take another 2 gallons to fill upto top of neck.

For those of you that claiming to get above 50mpg driving over 70mph is full of you, unless your TDI capable running on fumes, I wont believe you till see with my own eyes. I can believe getting 50+mpg driving at 50-60mph hypermilling at ideal conditions also driving at that speed very long distance on full tank of fuel, very possible to achieve this way, but not by driving with flow of traffic.

Those of you that disagree with me then bring me your super high mpg TDI and I will show you what its real world driving mpg is, driving at 70mph speed on FULL tank of fuel filled from light to top of neck. Be ready to be disapointed with your TDI!

Hate to break it to you.. but I never, EVER get below 50mpg 100% city driving in the summer time. On the highway with cruise control set to 6-7mph over the limit (which often times means 77mph or even 83mph), I get a VERY steady 55mpg. If I have the CC set for the speed limit or a few miles under, I'll get 60mpg. I drive from BUFF ny to Richmond VA, which is like 600miles one way, and half way back to NY, on one tank of diesel going 6-7mph over. I can go from Buff to Myrtle Beach, which is 840 miles, on one tank of diesel.

In fact, I do have pictures as proof of my numbers. Must I embarrass you by showing them?

High speed MPG - (for thoes mostly near an autobahn...)

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