MKIV fuel gelling in current midwest extreme cold

Hi all,

I recently got a '01 Jetta TDI and had been running great but I took a road trip to Wisconsin and on the way back to Cleveland today I had it gel up or ice twice. Once after 45 minutes on the road right in Green Bay and the second time an hour and a half later just outside Milwaukee. The first time I had it towed to a nearby dealer (I know...) and they said it had gelled so they replaced fuel filter and put in an additive and sent me on my way. Then an hour and half later...same thing. We had been driving through -11 to -17 degrees F.

While stranded the second time I threw in some diesel 911 in the tank and a little in the filter, but no dice. So it is towed and sitting in a auto garage here overnight right now.

Secondly, I had been using Stanadyne's standard year round performance additive, which I had been reading is a demulsifier and may actually have been adding to the problem with icing and not necessarily gelling. So since this tank is about 1/2 full still with a mixture of fuel Standadyne and diesel 911 would the 911 help with the issue the Stanadyne might be causing?

So I am just looking for some advice in keeping it running after I would assume it "de-thaws" in the garage overnight before they look at it tomorrow morning.

Thank you all very much for your help!
Phil

Phil - check out this thread on the fuel sender located in the fuel tank:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=68872

Your car may have an older sender and need the Karmann-diesel mod (post #10).

Best regards.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=404229 relevant discussion here
Summary: use correct additives, change fuel filter, remove restriction in the fuel sender(if applicable or needed)
not sure about stanadyne but the 911 is helpful. after adding the 911 it didnt work, perhaps it needs a bit more time to work.
If not get some powerkleen white bottle(this is the additive you should be using in winter), change the fuel filter and if needed remove restriction from fuel sender. I believe a link to the DIY is somewhere in the 4 pages of the thread I posted.(volmaniac beat me to it, thanks! remember, it is easier to change a fuel filter on the side of the road and see if you can get it running, if not then address the more time consuming fuel sender problem)

Just another case of "but I thought they winterized diesel everywhere"...
Stop at the store where you can by PowerService (white bottle) on your way to the garage...
remove the fuel filter and dump out the non-winterized diesel then ask the auto garage guys to connect their Pela/Motive/MityVac to the fuel line from the tank and draw the crap fuel out.
After you get the car put back together and running go back to the service station where you bought your last tank of fuel and show them the bill for your repairs...
If they appear to be flippant or insensitive towards your plight then just punch him in the face

Thanks guys much for the help and link to the sender fix. I was really surprised because I did buy the tank of fuel from a BP right off a "minor" highway just 40 minutes north of Green Bay.

Phil - hope this works out for you - and - even more important for the database- please post back what you have done and results. Thanks.

I'm in Kansas and we are down around zero. I just got back from having my 2004 Passat TDI towed from a gas station. The car did a little studder on the way home but it was momentary.

Then I went to pick up pizza and it sputtered and died. luckily another driver and a guy out walking gave a push into the gas station lot. A friend came by and we tried adding PS Diesel 911. I did add PS white bottle at the last fill up. Long story short, we couldn't get it started and I got it towed.

Even with the PS it still gelled on me. I could still here the lift pump come on when I turned the key. I'm just waiting for the "warmer" mid 30's tomorrow.

Lensdude_com said:

Just another case of "but I thought they winterized diesel everywhere"...
Stop at the store where you can by PowerService (white bottle) on your way to the garage...
remove the fuel filter and dump out the non-winterized diesel then ask the auto garage guys to connect their Pela/Motive/MityVac to the fuel line from the tank and draw the crap fuel out.
After you get the car put back together and running go back to the service station where you bought your last tank of fuel and show them the bill for your repairs...
If they appear to be flippant or insensitive towards your plight then just punch him in the face

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I thought you Canadians were a peaceable bunch

fruitcakesa said:

[/B]
I thought you Canadians were a peaceable bunch

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He's from the west. They're all cowboys out there

NB_TDi said:

He's from the west. They're all cowboys out there

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I spent a few years in Calgary back in the day but must have been in the East long enough to forget this

Boy it sounds like the midwest has just gotten some rotten fuel lately.
Of course its much colder than it usually is out there, I guess the fuel suppliers have gotten caught with their pants down.

Maybe all Albertans are red necks and cowboys but this here cowboy is starting and running his 2003 tdi in minus 30 temperatures without any problems whatsoever. I might be tempting fate, but a little preventative maintenance goes a really long way in the winter months. Granted no one can forsee getting a bad tank of fuel but I am somewhat amused by all the existing news reports about how this polar vortex is apparently making life tough in all the US states as far south as Texas. Get real guys, we all know how good these TDI motors are but they need a bit of TLC every now and then. I don't regularily use any additives at all , but if you get even a hint of cold weather approaching, or a hint of abnormal starting/ running, dose up the tank with an additive. I don't care which one you use....... its like ANY oil is better than no oil , and the same logic applies to additives in cold weather

blechale said:

I'm in Kansas and we are down around zero. I just got back from having my 2004 Passat TDI towed from a gas station. The car did a little studder on the way home but it was momentary.

Then I went to pick up pizza and it sputtered and died. luckily another driver and a guy out walking gave a push into the gas station lot. A friend came by and we tried adding PS Diesel 911. I did add PS white bottle at the last fill up. Long story short, we couldn't get it started and I got it towed.

Even with the PS it still gelled on me. I could still here the lift pump come on when I turned the key. I'm just waiting for the "warmer" mid 30's tomorrow.

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My bet: water in the fuel filter froze up, your fuel is innocent Try a new filter and let us know how she runs

miningman said:

Maybe all Albertans are red necks and cowboys but this here cowboy is starting and running his 2003 tdi in minus 30 temperatures without any problems whatsoever. I might be tempting fate, but a little preventative maintenance goes a really long way in the winter months. Granted no one can forsee getting a bad tank of fuel but I am somewhat amused by all the existing news reports about how this polar vortex is apparently making life tough in all the US states as far south as Texas. Get real guys, we all know how good these TDI motors are but they need a bit of TLC every now and then. I don't regularily use any additives at all , but if you get even a hint of cold weather approaching, or a hint of abnormal starting/ running, dose up the tank with an additive. I don't care which one you use....... its like ANY oil is better than no oil , and the same logic applies to additives in cold weather

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...well said, Brother

curtludwig said:

Boy it sounds like the midwest has just gotten some rotten fuel lately.
Of course its much colder than it usually is out there, I guess the fuel suppliers have gotten caught with their pants down.

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fuel supplied is whatever crap they suck out of the pipeline into the tankers as long as it meets sulfur and aromatic regs...
then one post after another about a gelled fuel problem in states that historically have been well-prepared for winter like Wisconsin, et. al...

I ended up breaking the T on top of the filter. It looks like the original so I'm not surprised it was brittle in the cold. I'm waiting on a replacement but the weather has slowed shipping down. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.

Just an update:

So the same thing was found the second time--fuel filter was all gelled up. So it sat in the garage over night and everything "de-gelled". Filter was replaced and a good portion of the old fuel was sucked out and replaced. We then put a heavy dose of the PowerService additive (the white bottle).

On the way home it was -6 to 0 and no problems whatsoever. So as mentioned earlier it seems it was just a batch that was not quite winterized enough. So with only owning this TDI for about 8 months now I have definitely learned a good lesson!

On a side note, the hotel's pipes burst that we were staying in after we decided to hang it up for the night after the second gelling at about 8am with gallons of water flowing through the ceiling of 3 floors. Definitely a road-trip I will not shortly forget!

...well if you won't punch him in the nose at least sue that company that retails fuel at that location for all damages related to the off-spec fuel they sold to you.

Since it got brought up has anybody tried going after a station that sold you bad fuel? I keep every receipt so it'd be easy to look back...

YEAAAAH said:

My bet: water in the fuel filter froze up, your fuel is innocent Try a new filter and let us know how she runs

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What YEAAAAH said. Assuming the fuel was properly winterized, you can still have problems at temps cold enough for ICING but still too warm for gelling. Whether you have icing or actual gelling (I suspect icing due to water) the symptoms are similar....fuel flow eventually stops. People often mistake icing for gelling. They think they have gelling but actually have icing instead due to water contamination.

A good thing to do is change where you fuel up. Stick to fueling up only at high volume truck stops and busy gas stations along major routes. Go where the big rigs go. Basically get your fuel where everybody else does in your area. Fuel turnover is highest at these stations and the fuel will always be the freshest fuel in the region. The fuel will be the least likely to be contaminated with water from condensation and microbes (due to water condensation) because the fuel is constantly being replaced. It's not uncommon for a busy truck stop along a major route to do more than $30k of diesel business in a single day.

Whatever you do, avoid fueling up at stations that rarely get any diesel business, no matter how tempting the slightly lower price per gallon may be. A single tank of bad fuel is all it takes to do some major damage to the fuel system and in a worst case scenario the damage can be done in a matter of minutes. Not worth the risk IMHO.

I'm suspecting icing instead of gelling and I recommend changing where you fuel up and regularly use an additive having some anti-gel and takes care of water.

Good luck.

Mine was definitely iced up. We suddenly had warmer temps and my parts came in. So on Saturday I put in a new filter and some new fuel line. Along with the new return T. After a lot of purging of air in the system, I got it running again.