New to us B4 wagon

abbeyinc

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Location
Alamosa, CO
TDI
Had two B4 TDi sedans, currently running a 96 B4 TDi wagon.
After a long hiatus, the family now owns its third B4 and this one is a wagon!
Runs great, drives straight and smooth. But it has a laundry list of things that need doing to get it back into proper shape.
It's been 8 years since we had one. Have there been any improvements in the timing belt situation - any way to get something longer than 60k?
If not...what is the current favorite timing belt kit?
We are looking for a wiring diagram for the sound system, or better yet a full set of shop manuals.
 

BamaB4S

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Location
AL
TDI
1996 Passat
Gates and Continental make good belts - 60K schedule for the B4.
 

garciapiano

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Location
Southern California
TDI
1997 Jetta TDI (1Z)
The timing belt is remarkably easy to change yourself on the B4.. If you’re concerned with the cost of labor, then find a guru to do it.
 

tdidieselbobny

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
TDI
'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
Keep an eye out for the 2 book set of Bentley manuals for sale here or on ebay-they are no longer available new, see them advertised in the $100 range. The timing belt is only 60k for this motor, nothing has ever been made to increase the interval. Any one of the kits from a trusted vendor here will be good, they are pretty cheap for the AHU/1Z motors.
 

abbeyinc

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Location
Alamosa, CO
TDI
Had two B4 TDi sedans, currently running a 96 B4 TDi wagon.
Thanks for the input, it's appreciated.
Could use a seller referral for the timing belt and related parts if you have one. Doing the water pump, hoses, and thermostat while we are in there.
 

garciapiano

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Location
Southern California
TDI
1997 Jetta TDI (1Z)
I got my 1Z/AHU timing belt/water pump kit from ECS Tuning and it has held up since I put it on earlier this year. I think I bought their ultimate kit with all the belts thermostat, coolant etc.. IDParts is much more TDI-specific, but I recall their kit was more expensive for what you got.

The only thing I would recommend is sourcing the metal/rubber water pump gasket. The paper one they supply with the pump is laughable.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
Dayco does make a timing belt that appears to be of the same sort of construction the 100k miles ALH belts are and is sized appropriately for this engine.

Officially, Dayco will tell you to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. But when you see one of those belts side by side with the original style 60k Conti belt, you'll probably feel OK about exceeding that 60k service interval...

May want to have a look at the photo in this post.

That's a photo I provided to Digital_Corpus through our conversations on the possibility of an uprated belt for these early cars.

Again, I don't want to shoulder any responsibility for a belt failing before you get to 100k miles, but the observation remains that the width and overall construction of the Dayco belt is in fact identical to their 100k mile ALH belts. It is shorter and thus with less teeth for the specific application of the 1Z/AHU engines, of course, but the construction is in fact of that of a much higher mileage rated belt.

And reiterating, the official story from Dayco is "follow the manufacturer's recommended replacement interval."
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Dayco does make a timing belt that appears to be of the same sort of construction the 100k miles ALH belts are and is sized appropriately for this engine.
Officially, Dayco will tell you to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. But when you see one of those belts side by side with the original style 60k Conti belt, you'll probably feel OK about exceeding that 60k service interval...
May want to have a look at the photo in this post.
That's a photo I provided to Digital_Corpus through our conversations on the possibility of an uprated belt for these early cars.
Again, I don't want to shoulder any responsibility for a belt failing before you get to 100k miles, but the observation remains that the width and overall construction of the Dayco belt is in fact identical to their 100k mile ALH belts. It is shorter and thus with less teeth for the specific application of the 1Z/AHU engines, of course, but the construction is in fact of that of a much higher mileage rated belt.
And reiterating, the official story from Dayco is "follow the manufacturer's recommended replacement interval."
It's the easiest timing belt on the planet to change, there's absolutely no justification for not being able to do it at 60k mile intervals.

As for the uprated belt that's just speculation, the manufacturer's advice still stands. The fact of the matter is that there is no extended life timing belt for the 1A/AHU/AFN engines; it's change at 60k miles.

And finally, this topic has been bandied about for too long now, there is no extended life belt, can we finally just put it to bed?

Steve
 

jhax

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
96 Passat B4V, ALH engine out of a 2002 Jetta, some IE Rods and ASV Pistons. Nothing drivable yet though
Welcome back! My significant other and I just drove through Alamosa on the way to Santa Fe for new years in my B4V. We stopped at the Indiana Jones B&B in Antonito. I am just after half way through my current 60k mile TB, I changed it more than a year ago and I commute 30-35 miles/day on average to give you any sort of idea. Glad to see another B4V rescued.
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
It's the easiest timing belt on the planet to change, there's absolutely no justification for not being able to do it at 60k mile intervals.
As for the uprated belt that's just speculation, the manufacturer's advice still stands. The fact of the matter is that there is no extended life timing belt for the 1A/AHU/AFN engines; it's change at 60k miles.
And finally, this topic has been bandied about for too long now, there is no extended life belt, can we finally just put it to bed?
Steve
Guess I just found yet another topic I upset ol Steve on. :rolleyes:

Mk4 shift linkage upgrade is still superior :p
 

97B4TDi

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
1997 B4 Passat, 2013 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
Have photos of the nice new [to you] wagon?


Always appreciated these B4 Wagons
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Guess I just found yet another topic I upset ol Steve on. :rolleyes:
Mk4 shift linkage upgrade is still superior :p
Not upset at all but don't mislead people. It's ridiculous that you recommend something that is not supported by the manufacturer and then when it comes down to it you won't take responsibility for that recommendation. And the real irony in this case is that you run a service shop and you still made that recommendation.

You can't have it both ways, you can't make recommendations that you expect people to take seriously and then back away from standing behind the recommendation. Especially when it comes to something like a timing belt.

In all honesty I don't get too upset with things on here because generally it's people who need guidance or a hand with something. You will find that I'm more than generous with my time helping people out, but what I don't think is good is to make recommendations like this when it's unnecessary.

Regardless as to whether or not you think that it will go the 100k it's unnecessary because it in fact is just about the easiest timing belt in the world to change.

So again I have to ask why on earth you made a recommendation that you won't stand behind and why you think there's even a need to find a 100k timing belt in this case? Answer - there isn't one.

Steve
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
This forum is filled with people who have real world experience and advice that goes against what the manufacturer calls for, especially when it's upgrades far beyond the scope of what the original designs were meant for. For all I can tell, that belt is absolutely capable of exceeding the original 60k mile interval. My wording is merely being shrewd and saving myself from someone coming back to me and blaming me for a "premature" failure, which can also just be a rare defect, other parts driven by the belt weren't replaced or replaced with poor quality parts or the job simply not done right to begin with.

It's called covering your ass. You get good at it when you run a business and there's more than on person who's hands have been on the same car.

Sure, the belt is one of the easier ones to replace. But there is no denying that the Dayco belt is absolutely of tougher construction than the original 60k Conti belt. Some of the commonrails came with similar Dayco belts from the factory and they're rated at even higher than 100k intervals, of course those engines are also lower compression, which is likely a little easier on it. For awhile when you ordered an ALH timing belt from the dealer, it was a Dayco belt in a VW box cross referenced to the part number that is for the 100k mile belt.

If you were to compare the 1Z/AHU Dayco belt to that VW packaged Dayco ALH belt you'd find the materials and construction appear to be identical, as is the width and thickness of the belt (the PDs and gen 1 commonrails are wider still, gen 2/CKRA went back to the ALH/1Z/AHU width). The only difference is the 1Z/AHU is a shorter belt with fewer teeth due to how its routed an the number of things it has to drive.

I personally would feel perfectly comfortable pushing that belt to 100k miles on a 1Z/AHU on my own cars. I merely was covering my ass in case someone decided to try it on their own and it happened to not make it (especially since I wasn't the one who installed it), because that's what a shrewd businessman does. Sorry if you don't like how I worded it.
 
Last edited:

hoehler11

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
COLORADO
TDI
1996 passat tdi wagon, 2004 passat tdi wagon
The question is has anyone ignored changing the belt and how long did it run before failure? Lol!
 

abbeyinc

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Location
Alamosa, CO
TDI
Had two B4 TDi sedans, currently running a 96 B4 TDi wagon.
Not really sure how to imbed a picture here...

It's a green wagon. I picked it up off ebay from a guy in MT. I think this car lived in Washington prior. This weekend she got timing belt, water pump, thermostat, tensioner, and idler.

We haven't decided on a name yet. Junior Asparagus and Puff the Magic Wagon are top contenders.
 

iluvmydiesels

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
it seems no one mentioned you want a water pump with a metal impeller. the plastic ones are getting more common these days, stay away from plastic impeller W/Ps.
there are 3 seals on this 'side' of motor. cam, im shaft, and crank. the crank idk, you have to weigh if it needs to be done/if you want to do it. as you need to remove crank bolt, takes a new bolt. and you need a 'crank' lock tool to put it on. otherwise you shouldnt touch this crank seal. im shaft also takes a special o-ring. lube/grease seals when putting on..
 

iluvmydiesels

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
dayco makes ok belts, i personally prefer gates if i can get them. if you check, napa stores tend to sell gates branded belts. whether or not you feel/say the dayco belts are of stronger construction, thats ok, and if it happens/or is stronger, its an insurance. but for AHU motors its 60k miles for a change. you dont really want to test timing belt and see if they run longer. use a interval and change. as you also have other work to do.
notably, and a thing your also not considering (matt im talking about) is the water pump. its real smart to change these out at the same mileage, ~60k miles, or 6years. they theirselves dont tend to last much longer. losing a water pump wont help either. and to say, as we all kno, you need to take off timing belt to get to a water pump.
as i pointed out and we all know there are other things to attend to when doing a timing belt. for one the seals.
 

abbeyinc

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Location
Alamosa, CO
TDI
Had two B4 TDi sedans, currently running a 96 B4 TDi wagon.
I did all of the seals and idlers, across the board. There are no spinny bit on the front of the engine that wasn't renewed. the water pump is the metal impeller version, the thermostat housing is now metal, the timing belt is one of the heavier-gauge versions. The water pump gasket is the metal-and-rubber version. The valve cover gasket looked ok, but I had a new one so it got changed too being careful to put a spot of Yamabond in the pesky corners. The dampener bolts are new (old hexes were threatening to waller out). All torqued to spec. I dropped it off the stands and it ran perfectly with no leaks on the first try. That ought to do it for now. Now I need to deal with the leaky sunroof.
 

iluvmydiesels

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
sounds good, accumulating those parts can raise the price, and can take some finding.
probably just a good idea, new valve cover gasket. they can be reused.
did you change the crank seal? if you did, new crank bolt? torqued it right?(takes an extra 1/4 turn).
where did you find a metal thermo housing?? i think people have looked for them, maybe one of the members makes one. i think people tried to use the mk2 housing, but the opening/hose connection turns the wrong way(??). maybe it also doesnt have a 'clip' connection or a fits an oring.
 

iluvmydiesels

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
Now I need to deal with the leaky sunroof.
i had forgot to mention, i think somewhere, in a section or faq section there is a sticky about cleaning sunroof drains. i take it to a shop and have them clean the drains, every 10years or so. as far as replacing rubber(??), could look it up and see if its a topic(?).
 

abbeyinc

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Location
Alamosa, CO
TDI
Had two B4 TDi sedans, currently running a 96 B4 TDi wagon.
I think this sunroof needs more than a drain cleaned. The plastic across the front is loose, and there's a bunch of wind noise. Need to really dig into it, but the injection pump sprung a leak so need to handle that first.
 

iluvmydiesels

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
i bought a timing belt from napa, came, box says "made by gates, backed by gates". made in the UK. @$28 its one of the more expensive belts you can find. it may not be gates front production belt, but it looks good.
 
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